are these games not meant too be played by Christains ?

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I was wondering if i could get support on some popular world games.
including popular Rpg titles.. I am new in my faith and i am going strickly by the bible teaching.. I am a Christian but i am new in my walk. I have games i play on my ps3. xbox 360.. that i question if a Christian should play or not.I know people make up their own rules in faith however i choose too follow Gods wishes. Here are a list of my favorite games i will list my favorites first, as others i am also playing or have played in the past. I seek advice on..Skyrim does this game use real magic or fake i mean real like Harry potter?. Rpg are my favorite game. Deus human Revolution second favorite.I am aware what Deux story about. I am interested in the story because of what the game stands for. I dont support Deus ex story but simply seek info about it.Fable 1-3 are my third favorite rpg games.. horror games i have played i will list the ones that gave me a strange feeling in my spirit when i played it fear 3. i plan on returning this too gamestop. dead space 1 during a mission i had a strange feeling.alone in the dark inferno ps3 i didnt have any feeling but was going too return it. Bioshock 1-2 i finish both games it didnt make a difference if i kept them or not i finish both already. Alice madness returns xbox 360 i was going too keep until i saw on youtube a wall with 666 so i will be returning.Prey xbox 360 i didnt understand it doent have a return value.. so i probably would destroy it. condemned 2 and 1 i already finish 1 but didnt finish 2 i like this game but also saw on youtube someone post a video during the developers walkthrough i saw a 6 then saw 2 66 upside down so i will be returning or destroying it. I really need real spirtual guidence. I know the world we live in daily uses symbols and it seems that the symbols are in games now but does this mean every game i cant play because the symbols are present as a Christian?
 
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DeepSouth

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Pray about it. God will send convictions to your heart if you're doing wrong. I sold my Xbox, but I liked violent games that were full of cursing, and they were becoming more and more a center piece of my life, taking center stage above God and my family. So like I said, pray about it and God will show you. As for the use of magic and symbols, well, the Bible does speak out against magic pretty strongly.....
 
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Dear new sister in Christ: WELCOME TO THE CHURCH (defined as broadly as possible). I wonder if the angels in Heaven are done with the party they started when you came to Christ yet :)

Now, as for your question: People might tell you that the Bible teaches this or that about it. But it doesn't - this is very much one of those cases where you need to let prayer and reason guide you.
Let me give you a real world example:

One of the guys I live with (I share a house with several other Christians), after a couple of years of having played the RPG World of Darkness, specifically Vampire: The Requiem, experienced very heavy demonic attacks. And he got rid of everything, haven't had any problems since (there's some intermediate results there that aren't relevant to the point I'm making: Prayer and spiritual warfare). HE feels, and I believe he's right, that he can't play stuff like that anymore because it was one of the ways he was being attacked.

But that, in and of itself, does not mean that no Christian can touch these games (I used this example, even though you mostly asked about computer games), just as the fact that an alcoholic who's found Christ can't drink ANYTHING with alcohol in it, doesn't mean that that same rule must apply to all Christians.

For my part, I still play VtR (and starting to get acquainted with VtM - a game lore that isn't totally foreign to Christianity, btw), because I don't have the same problem he does. I have, however, thrown out ALL of my horror movies from my movie collection (and there were MANY), after I felt I got an order from on high to do so.

Another thought: Dealing with horrific themes in games (and movies) is, in my view, one way of making them less dangerous in RL. The whole issue is much like a fire drill, or better: An immunization: Once you've had the weaker version of the disease, you're better equipped to handle the real thing...and of course there are the few instances where immunizations go horribly wrong..see where I'm going?

Basically, I think my point is this: Pray about it, and, in the process of doing that, go with your gut. I wish you all the best, and feel free to PM with any questions you might have about this issue, or other parts of Christian life :)

In Him

UnamSanctam.
 
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As for the use of magic and symbols, well, the Bible does speak out against magic pretty strongly.....

It speaks out against the ACTUAL practice of occult arts, and "magic", yes. It says absolutely nothing about not-actual "magic" - the writers of the Bible hadn't seen D&D, Harry Potter, etc, coming.
Before I get accused of the opposite: I'm NOT IN ANY WAY denouncing the authority of the Scriptures! I'm simply saying that they're silent on this particular issue.

Basically it can be summed up like this:
"There's nothing wrong with PLAYING a guy who draws symbols and casts spells....there's much wrong with drawing symbols and trying to perform magic YOURSELF"....

I'd love to play Skyrim, but my computer can't run it :(
 
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DeepSouth

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It speaks out against the ACTUAL practice of occult arts, and "magic", yes. It says absolutely nothing about not-actual "magic" - the writers of the Bible hadn't seen D&D, Harry Potter, etc, coming.
Before I get accused of the opposite: I'm NOT IN ANY WAY denouncing the authority of the Scriptures! I'm simply saying that they're silent on this particular issue.

Basically it can be summed up like this:
"There's nothing wrong with PLAYING a guy who draws symbols and casts spells....there's much wrong with drawing symbols and trying to perform magic YOURSELF"....

I'd love to play Skyrim, but my computer can't run it :(

It's not my place to judge, so I won't. My personal view on the whole magic thing is why pretend to sin? However, as you stated, there is no specific verses on pretending. Of course, there is something to be said of a Christian's testimony, but everyone has their own views. I have plenty of beams in my eye, so I won't look at the speck in someone else's. One last thought though, would Jesus play these games?
 
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Dear new sister in Christ: WELCOME TO THE CHURCH (defined as broadly as possible). I wonder if the angels in Heaven are done with the party they started when you came to Christ yet :)
Agreed. Welcome to the family.

One of the guys I live with (I share a house with several other Christians), after a couple of years of having played the RPG World of Darkness, specifically Vampire: The Requiem, experienced very heavy demonic attacks. And he got rid of everything, haven't had any problems since (there's some intermediate results there that aren't relevant to the point I'm making: Prayer and spiritual warfare). HE feels, and I believe he's right, that he can't play stuff like that anymore because it was one of the ways he was being attacked.
I personally draw the line at vampires. Blood is holy, and we are exhorted throughout scripture not to consume blood. However, I don't play RPG's, so I have no idea what these games are about.

But that, in and of itself, does not mean that no Christian can touch these games (I used this example, even though you mostly asked about computer games), just as the fact that an alcoholic who's found Christ can't drink ANYTHING with alcohol in it, doesn't mean that that same rule must apply to all Christians.

For my part, I still play VtR (and starting to get acquainted with VtM - a game lore that isn't totally foreign to Christianity, btw), because I don't have the same problem he does. I have, however, thrown out ALL of my horror movies from my movie collection (and there were MANY), after I felt I got an order from on high to do so.
What was your reason for throwing out your horror movies, if I may ask? I was a big fan, but now I don't want to. I didn't have a hard collection, but I quit watching them on netflix and other such sites.

Another thought: Dealing with horrific themes in games (and movies) is, in my view, one way of making them less dangerous in RL. The whole issue is much like a fire drill, or better: An immunization: Once you've had the weaker version of the disease, you're better equipped to handle the real thing...and of course there are the few instances where immunizations go horribly wrong..see where I'm going?
Spiritual warfare is a very important, but often overlooked, part of the ministry. But I don't feel the need to "immunize" myself. The Word is all I need.

Basically, I think my point is this: Pray about it, and, in the process of doing that, go with your gut. I wish you all the best, and feel free to PM with any questions you might have about this issue, or other parts of Christian life :)
Agreed on all points!

In Him

UnamSanctam.

Prayer is the key to all things. Let God convict you to do right.
 
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One last thought though, would Jesus play these games?

I think Jesus would be everywhere people could meet Him - even at the gaming table.
We have a tendency to see Jesus as this austere serious figure, but even in His Divinity, He was a human being like the rest of us: He laughed, cried, had fun, enjoyed the company of friends, etc. And He was infamous for being where it was not thought "proper". If Jesus could eat with (= have close fellowship with) tax collectors and prostitutes, then He could certainly have joined in an RPG....though he might annoy the other players with "That's not what demons are like"-comments :cool:

I personally draw the line at vampires. Blood is holy, and we are exhorted throughout scripture not to consume blood. However, I don't play RPG's, so I have no idea what these games are about.

Well, for starters, no REAL blood-drinking takes place amongst the players of the characters. Secondly: I think we can pretty much say that Paul's directions on what the real problem behind eating meat sacrificed to idols is, applies here: You're free to eat whatever you want, as long as it doesn't cause a brother or sister to stumble and fall.
Of course, more importantly: Jesus' saying that it is not what ENTERS someone (= what they eat) that makes them unclean, but the words that come out one's mouth.
That said, I'd have to be starving and on the verge of death before I as much as CONSIDER eating anything that has blood in it....it's one of the most disgusting things I can think of.

Finally: The part about drinking blood is not at all the main focus of Vampire. The theme is...well, there are different possibilities. It CAN be a simply dungeon crawl, but that's lame. I think the way White Wolf had thought of it, was to have the main theme be: Combating your descend into monstrosity. A theme very much relevant to humans as well, no? :)

What was your reason for throwing out your horror movies, if I may ask?

I can't say. It was this...overwhelming impulse and thought: "You need to get rid of them". And to this day, I'm sure that it was, as I said, "an order from on high". I simply don't know why it was important that I get rid of them at THAT point, and not before or later, but it apparently was.
 
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DeepSouth

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I think Jesus would be everywhere people could meet Him - even at the gaming table.
We have a tendency to see Jesus as this austere serious figure, but even in His Divinity, He was a human being like the rest of us: He laughed, cried, had fun, enjoyed the company of friends, etc. And He was infamous for being where it was not thought "proper". If Jesus could eat with (= have close fellowship with) tax collectors and prostitutes, then He could certainly have joined in an RPG....though he might annoy the other players with "That's not what demons are like"-comments :cool:
Jesus did go to places of sin and hang out with sinners, but obviously he never partook in sin. But whatever, each to there own convictions. I must agree that we have a much too serious idea of Jesus. He had very human emotions, and I would bet my shoes he played games and did other non-serious things. And the Bible shows that he had a sense of humor.


Well, for starters, no REAL blood-drinking takes place amongst the players of the characters. LOL kinda figured (and hoped) that didn't happen.Secondly: I think we can pretty much say that Paul's directions on what the real problem behind eating meat sacrificed to idols is, applies here: You're free to eat whatever you want, as long as it doesn't cause a brother or sister to stumble and fall. This is definitely debatable. Acts 15:29 is pretty clear on this. By this logic, is it ok to involve ourselves in sexual immorality? But, I digress. To each their own
Of course, more importantly: Jesus' saying that it is not what ENTERS someone (= what they eat) that makes them unclean, but the words that come out one's mouth.
That said, I'd have to be starving and on the verge of death before I as much as CONSIDER eating anything that has blood in it....it's one of the most disgusting things I can think of.

Finally: The part about drinking blood is not at all the main focus of Vampire. The theme is...well, there are different possibilities. It CAN be a simply dungeon crawl, but that's lame. I think the way White Wolf had thought of it, was to have the main theme be: Combating your descend into monstrosity. A theme very much relevant to humans as well, no? :) This is why I added the "I don't know these games" part of the previous post. Never played anything of the nature. Maybe one day I'll get in touch with my inner nerd (just kidding).
To the OP: All that being said, I guess it will boil down to your own convictions. Only God can tell you whether something that is not specifically discussed in the Bible is a sin.
 
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I have been a lifelong gamer, before I could read I was playing games. I'm not going to say it did me a world of good. I'm not going to say it did me a world of evil.

I think an important thing to do is to research these titles you are interested in first. Second, to understand what each game's position is on certain taboo subjects in the first place.

For example: In Skyrim, magic is a science, and not an art. There is no praying to dark spirits or even light spirits in order for the characters in the game to wield energy.

A contrasting example: Dragon Age's magiks have much to do with the ethreal world, even to the point where everyone who sleeps slips into a second sleeping world known as the fade, where demons try to ensnare the living inorder to gain entry into the physical world. There is even a very dark form of magic known as blood magic which involves using blood in order to ensnare the minds and vital forces of the living.

Thats quite a contrast, wouldn't you think?

Now, for a science fiction example.

Deus Ex: HR (as mentioned earlier) is a very deep game, filled to the brim with conspiracy, hubris, and a sense of panic and anticipation over the rapidly escalating technology of the world. The player character suffers horrible trauma at the beginning of the game, but is essentially rebuilt, after which he embarks on a quest spanning the globe for those who nearly killed him. At the same time he learns what it truly means to be human, from a secular point of view at least. There is certainly evil and corruption in the game, and it is quite violent as well (To be honest, what game isn't these days?), given the cybernetic nature of the player character. Underlying this all though is deep, and substantially moving discussion and observations on how the human race is giving up its humanity more and more each day.

1766673-6333578_95_super.jpg


Again, to contrast: The Warhammer 40K series is a science fiction universe that dates back to the late 80s. If you thought what I just wrote above seems dark and disturbing, get this. The champions of the 40K Imperium of Man (notice the capital on man...) are true abominations in body. The heroes of the stories of 40K are called space marines. These men (all men, not a single woman among them if I remember correctly) are all 500 lb, 9 foot tall monstrosities that have been genetically engineered, then genetically modified, and cybernetically enhanced with multiple redundant organ systems (multiple hearts, lungs, etc.) so that they can survive the most greivous injuries. They are clad in the most ridiculously heavy armor imaginable, and wield swords melded with chainsaws and the guns they care fire slugs the size of a water bottle.

2010-throne--%282%29_03.jpg


Heres the kicker.

Even when they are killed in battle, and their bodies recovered, the most glorified dead marines are reanimated and placed inside a sarcophagus that is actually a walking tank. So in death they still serve what they call their "God Emperor"

The reason I made these contrasts, with two examples from each of these two prevelant genres (and included pictures to drive home the second part) is because it was the relevant thing to do. Although all 4 of those game universes carry the "Mature" rating from ESRB, there is still much difference between each title. Its a blanket term applied when criteria crosses a threshold.

My ultimate point is, when you think back on what I wrote, and the pictures I included. Do you see the dark and the light? Sure, poor old Adam Jensen man have lost his body parts, but I think that space marine just a couple inches up there lost his soul.

Get my meaning? :D
 
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I was wondering if i could get support on some popular world games.
including popular Rpg titles.. I am new in my faith and i am going strickly by the bible teaching.. I am a Christian but i am new in my walk. I have games i play on my ps3. xbox 360.. that i question if a Christian should play or not.I know people make up their own rules in faith however i choose too follow Gods wishes. Here are a list of my favorite games i will list my favorites first, as others i am also playing or have played in the past. I seek advice on..Skyrim does this game use real magic or fake i mean real like Harry potter?. Rpg are my favorite game. Deus human Revolution second favorite.I am aware what Deux story about. I am interested in the story because of what the game stands for. I dont support Deus ex story but simply seek info about it.Fable 1-3 are my third favorite rpg games.. horror games i have played i will list the ones that gave me a strange feeling in my spirit when i played it fear 3. i plan on returning this too gamestop. dead space 1 during a mission i had a strange feeling.alone in the dark inferno ps3 i didnt have any feeling but was going too return it. Bioshock 1-2 i finish both games it didnt make a difference if i kept them or not i finish both already. Alice madness returns xbox 360 i was going too keep until i saw on youtube a wall with 666 so i will be returning.Prey xbox 360 i didnt understand it doent have a return value.. so i probably would destroy it. condemned 2 and 1 i already finish 1 but didnt finish 2 i like this game but also saw on youtube someone post a video during the developers walkthrough i saw a 6 then saw 2 66 upside down so i will be returning or destroying it. I really need real spirtual guidence. I know the world we live in daily uses symbols and it seems that the symbols are in games now but does this mean every game i cant play because the symbols are present as a Christian?
update i got rid of all my games that i mention in my topic instead of skyrim.I havent played skyrim still.I kept skyrim because its the only rpg game that doesnt force you too use magic.I was just wondering if you play skyrim and dont use magic will this be okay i dont feel convicted by having skyrim.The only one it botherd was my husband, he would wake him up when ever i played it.I was just thinking if you playing as a good person and you not use magic would this be fine? or is it dont play any game that has magic, in it even if your not using it..
 
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UnamSanctam

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update i got rid of all my games that i mention in my topic instead of skyrim.I havent played skyrim still.I kept skyrim because its the only rpg game that doesnt force you too use magic.I was just wondering if you play skyrim and dont use magic will this be okay i dont feel convicted by having skyrim.The only one it botherd was my husband, he would wake him up when ever i played it.I was just thinking if you playing as a good person and you not use magic would this be fine? or is it dont play any game that has magic, in it even if your not using it..

Well, my two cents are still: It doesn't matter if you in a fictional world uses powers that do not exist in this world. But if I were to apply your own criteria to this, I'd say stop this too. Because magic is everywhere in the ES-games, and presumably also in Skyrim - and (I've only played Oblivion, so I don't know how it is in Skyrim) almost all characters/classes have some kind of magic....which it can be more than difficult to resist the urge to use.
So from an "avoid temptations"-perspective, that'd be my recommendation...
 
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FromTheDarknessToTheLight

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If what you play affects how you think, than do not play the game. For instance, why would you want to play Grand Theft Auto games? They are fun, no doubt about that, I used to play that game, along with Fallout 1-3/Vegas, Elder Scrolls, etc, but those games revolve around killing, and if you find yourself making evil choices in those games, it shows where your heart truly is.

I recommend you stay away from any games which revolve around killing, murder, magic, and other things of that sort. Deus Ex is a great game, playing the original, it has an interesting storyline revolving around conspiracies, Illuminati, Knights Templar, New World Order, and has a fun RPG gameplay to it, with abilities you can gain and skills like firearms/hacking/swimming/lockpicking/medical ability, etc. It is in your best interest to stay away from such games though. Trust me. If not, seek deep within and ask God if you should stay away from such games, if you feel deep down inside you shouldn't be playing those games, then don't. It's either God's way or yours. Will you live for God and Jesus, or live for yourself? The scripture is there to teach us, follow it's word and advice and you can never go wrong.

Here is something good for you to look at, if you are a true follower of Christ you will think and consider if what you are doing is right, or wrong. Here below is text taken from this link. --> Should a Christian play video games?

Philippians 4:8? “Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things”

Violent video games are not pure, they are not lovely, and they are not admirable. Pointless killing and slaughter is that of Satan. That's not to say there isn't games out there that are not good, Mario is a fun game, it's clean and fun. There are other games out there as well that are clean and harmless to play.

Think about this - Would Jesus want to watch you playing games where you run around killing? Jesus wants us to have our toys just like little kids have and enjoy their toys, but when our toys depict evil, he does not like and condone such things. Do you not think that in the long run playing such violent video games will have any effect on your mind? Do not be deceived, Satan wants you to think it will not, but on a subconscious level, it can hurt you spiritually and morally. You may not even notice it, because Satan is there to blind you to it. When you play games of violence, you may think about violence even when you are not playing those games, think about that. Just something for you to think about.

Big love, -Josh. God bless.
 
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Pointless killing and slaughter is that of Satan.

Agreed! But....
1: Once again, let me establish that:
1,1: We're talking entirely fictional worlds here! Normal, sane, adults are well able to distinguish reality from fiction. Basically: Just because I just hack-n-slashed my way through a level in Postal 2, doesn't mean that I'm going to go out, buy a tazer, and start stunning people only to pour gas over them and light a match. Anyone who thinks that normal people will respond to stimuli like that, basically don't know anything about how the human mind works.
1,2: Violent games can be therapeutic. I'd prefer taking off a zombie's head with a 12 gauge shotgun, instead of exploding in someone's face in RL.

2: When does killing become "pointless"?
Yes, it IS in games like "Postal". But in others, like historical recreations (Medal of Honor, for instance), there is very much a point to killing. Or how about a game like Red Alert? Countless soldiers on both sides kill and die - but most definitely not pointlessly so.


That's not to say there isn't games out there that are not good, Mario is a fun game, it's clean and fun. There are other games out there as well that are clean and harmless to play.
are-you-kidding-me.jpg

Mario?
Sure, it's fun when you're a kid. I played it a lot. But I'm fairly certain that the number of adults who find much amusement in it is relatively small. "Clean and harmless" is very much a matter of interpretation. For instance - I might say that Mario promotes drug use, since he eats mushrooms that apparently changes his abilities (throwing fireballs) and/or size (small Mario-->Big Mario after eating a mushroom). Or that it distorts one's view of reality, since jumping down pipes WON'T take you into a secret area with lots of gold, anywhere else but in the game.

See the point?
"Clean and harmless" is often just another way of saying: "Perfectly acceptable at my wife's knitting club".

Yes - what the OP needs to do, is soul-searching, and praying, and acting on whatever (!) answer God gives.
But simply saying "All games that aren't Mario-esque are evil" is very much over the top.

PS: Sorry for pic size - it won't let me re-scale it...
 
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FromTheDarknessToTheLight

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I agree, but there are games out there besides Mario that aren't too bad. Super smash bros is a cool game, I don't care if you are a kid or an adult, that game is a lot of fun. It does not depict gory violence or anything of that sort, while it does depict fighting it does so in a fairly innocent manner. Also, don't forget about what I said mentioning what Jesus would think. Can you really honestly say in your heart if Jesus was sitting there with you watching you play your video games that depict gory violence like lighting people on fire that he would not say "Why are you playing such things? Why does such violence amuse you?"

Think about this - Would Jesus want to watch you playing games where you run around killing? Jesus wants us to have our toys just like little kids have and enjoy their toys, but when our toys depict evil, he does not like and condone such things. Do you not think that in the long run playing such violent video games will have any effect on your mind? Do not be deceived, Satan wants you to think it will not, but on a subconscious level, it can hurt you spiritually and morally. You may not even notice it, because Satan is there to blind you to it. When you play games of violence, you may think about violence even when you are not playing those games, think about that. Just something for you to think about.

I'll leave such matters of thought and seeking to you and the OP. It all starts with spiritual searching and questioning. If you feel even a the slightest hint when you call out to God or Jesus that you shouldn't be playing such games, it would be most wise to find something more innocent yet enjoyable to play. Those video games do exist.
 
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Unam. I appreciate your point here, but you're talking in extremes about something that requires more subtlety.

"If what you play affects how you think, than do not play the game. For instance, why would you want to play Grand Theft Auto games? They are fun, no doubt about that, I used to play that game, along with Fallout 1-3/Vegas, Elder Scrolls, etc, but those games revolve around killing, and if you find yourself making evil choices in those games, it shows where your heart truly is"

I like that those are the examples. They are great examples for the entire video game culture that may go largely misunderstood by those that see them from the outside in, or are casual players, or are players with a strong leaning of criticism.

You make a great point, that in if it affects you negatively, then do not play the game. Of course, by virtue of those games existing (With the exception of the GTA series, which I really just view as garbage, despite the skilled execution of the product), negative thoughts need not emerge.

I have had many great, eye opening experiences with all of those games. I like that you bring up both the Fallout series, and the Elder Scrolls series. They are both series that revolve around free roaming adventure. As such, one has a large degree of controll over how the game unfolds, in terms of how you play the game, and sometimes, the ramifications of actions are far reaching and affect many characters lives.

There is a large distinction between Fallout and Elder Scrolls though, and it comes down to one word: civilization. Fallout is dark, brooding, and remorseless. It captures the feel and setting of a post apocalyptic (if that cataclysm was brought about by nuclear weapons) lifestyle. It is not live and let live. It is live or die. There are so many seperate groups that conflict, that death is a fact of life. But...There is freedom in how you approach that fact.

You align yourself with a group, and that group's interests become your characters own.

I for one really liked, while playing Fallout: New Vegas: Honest Hearts, when I met the New Caaninite missionary Jacob, and the former Caesar's Legion legate, Joshua Graham. It was refreshing to see two Christian characters in a modern game, in a setting so dark, who were fighting for what they believed in. They demonstrate a light and darkness, but never did they forsake the Lord.

Graham would talk about how he fell every day, but that the path was still there for him, and for everyone to walk. He believed that the place known as Zion canyon (his home) belonged to the Lord, and he would not let a barbaric group of people new to the area come in and destroy and take everything that had been preserved there by God (Zion canyon in FO:NV is actually a beautiful place considering that the entire world is essentially burned to ash). Jacob believed that protecting the canyon as a monument to God's glory and a place for the faith to flourish again was not as important as protecting the souls of the tribals that the two Mormons were teaching the way of the Lord. Jacob knew that Graham intended to take the tribals and lead them, not only defeat the invaders, but to completly annilhilate them all as a warning and a sign to all others who would attempt to take what was theirs.

The player character has the ability to influence that choice. I believe that is the kind of scope games today bring to discussion table of life itself. I'm not saying that the story of Joshua Graham and Jacob the missionary should be taught in Sunday school. I just wanted to make the comparison to another type of game.

Elder Scrolls is incredibly deep, and it needs to be digested over a long period of time. The political strife and differences between the races are very evident in all of the games. I will use Skyrim as the example though because of how recent and popular it is.

In Skyrim, there is much to do, much to see. There are, like in the last example groups that can be joined. It is not necessary though to join any of them, because the main story is expansive and detailed in its own right. Free roaming adventure games STRESS the fact that the player can make the choices, and is not a linear sequence of levels like the old Mario games, and countless other titles. Those titles force the story, in free roaming games, you choose the story.

A poster above wanted to know if you can play a character without using magic. Yes, you can. Magic is only one of the three main disiplines. I won't say magic is harmless. Magic, in a game point of view, is very dangerous. It is primal energy that is reformed to will of the user, predominantly. Often times, mages (wizards in other words) are often very extreme idealists, completely good or completely evil. The reason for that is because in games where theology (or fictional theology) does not come into play, it is a convenient outlet to explain the corruption or righteousness of an individual. It stresses the concept (not the fact, not the "try this at home") of "if we had the power, what would we do with it?". Dragon Age does an excellent job of focusing on the dangers of magic to those who wield it in the game, and those who are affected by it.

In finish with that point. I believe what the player decides to use magic for (if thats what a player wants to use in a game) is more important, than if it is Biblically correct or not. It is fantasy, it is fiction. If you replace the word magic with the word gun, you have a more realistic concept, but ultimately the same comparison is drawn.

Do you protect and build up others, and their place in the world righteously with the power of (magic/a gun), or do you use the power of (magic/a gun) to destroy, to take life needlessly, to cause pain and suffering, etc.

Seems like a pretty clear choice to me.

"Violent video games are not pure, they are not lovely, and they are not admirable. Pointless killing and slaughter is that of Satan. That's not to say there isn't games out there that are not good, Mario is a fun game, it's clean and fun. There are other games out there as well that are clean and harmless to play."

I would agree with that entire statement if one word was added before the word violent. Needless violence. Needless violence is bad, it tears down life, it corrupts the purpetrator and victim who survives.

Righteous violence, although not sanctioned by God, allowed the Greek city states to fend off the Persians during the Peloponessian War, thus preserving ALL of history as we know it after that point. It allowed the Allies and all their allies during WWII to beat back the tide of a tremendously wicked man's rage.

Two points in history, completely different circumstances, with the same reason to fight. Makes sense to me.
 
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FromTheDarknessToTheLight

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I for one really liked, while playing Fallout: New Vegas: Honest Hearts, when I met the New Caaninite missionary Jacob, and the former Caesar's Legion legate, Joshua Graham. It was refreshing to see two Christian characters in a modern game, in a setting so dark, who were fighting for what they believed in. They demonstrate a light and darkness, but never did they forsake the Lord.

Graham would talk about how he fell every day, but that the path was still there for him, and for everyone to walk. He believed that the place known as Zion canyon (his home) belonged to the Lord, and he would not let a barbaric group of people new to the area come in and destroy and take everything that had been preserved there by God (Zion canyon in FO:NV is actually a beautiful place considering that the entire world is essentially burned to ash). Jacob believed that protecting the canyon as a monument to God's glory and a place for the faith to flourish again was not as important as protecting the souls of the tribals that the two Mormons were teaching the way of the Lord. Jacob knew that Graham intended to take the tribals and lead them, not only defeat the invaders, but to completly annilhilate them all as a warning and a sign to all others who would attempt to take what was theirs.

The player character has the ability to influence that choice. I believe that is the kind of scope games today bring to discussion table of life itself. I'm not saying that the story of Joshua Graham and Jacob the missionary should be taught in Sunday school. I just wanted to make the comparison to another type of game.
It's strange that you mention NV:Honest hearts, as very recently, about a week ago, I was speaking to a relative about the same add-on. The characters, story, and a few other things about the add-on.

It's not really so much the violence in those games, it's more of the choices you decide to make. It's psychology, really. If the first time you play through these 'open world role playing games' that you find yourself out to destroy most everyone to begin with, align yourself with evil factions, and make immoral choices by hurting innocent NPC's then it truly does show where your heart and mind is.

You are basically God in the game, not really omnipotent, but can become so powerful that no one and nothing can really stop you. Even if you die, your simply placed back in the game world where you left off, or your last save. You are pretty much immortal. If deep down inside you enjoy tormenting characters in the game, who's not to say if you had such power in reality you wouldn't do the same thing? you would be above the law, nothing and no one could stop you.

I think I'm thinking too deep into this, and my theory probably flawed after all, it is just a game, but without the law the beast in 'good human beings' would be set loose. We keep our animalistic side locked in a cage because of laws. Without those laws, not everyone, but it seems like a majority of human beings are probably pure evil on the inside, and the law is there to keep them from truly letting out that 'beast' many people keep locked away.

Speaking of NV:HH, I chose to follow Joshua's ideals of taking out the White Legs. Jacob was more of a pacifist, although not so much so that I don't think he wouldn't of killed a White Leg if his life or one of his tribes was in danger. When I decided to take Joshua's advice and not Jacobs, Jacob said something along the lines of "Why!? can you not see that warring over the canyon isn't worth it? Many lives will be lost, and the Dead Horses may kill some innocent people and have to live the rest of their lives with that on their mind" In the end Jacob pretty much just says in his own way, 'Fine, have it your way, but I don't think this will end well'

When Joshua and the Courier slaughter their way through Three Mary's, the White Legs camp, you get to the end with Joshua killing prisoners of war who are on their knees. Then when Joshua is preparing to kill the tribal leader, Salt Upon Wounds, the tribal leader speaks to you asking for mercy. With a high enough speech, you can persuade Joshua to spare his life, and while Joshua doesn't really want to let the leader go because he slaughtered his family, with persuasion from the Courier he decides to let him go.

I'm not a pacifist, but I am willing to spare the lives of those who beg to live. No one really ever has the right to take the life of another, that decision alone belongs to God. However in some circumstances, it is unavoidable, and if not acted upon, could cause many lives to be lost and awful things could result of not retaliating in violence. Salt Upon Wounds may have done terrible things, but it's not in my nature, or should I say not in my nature anymore since I have Christ in my heart, to kill a prisoner begging for his life.

Even though Joshua may have Christ in his heart, vengeance drives him, and as a result, he is like a dim light shining in darkness. Now that I look back, the decision to go with Joshua's plan wasn't wise, as Jacob was right. Is land really worth fighting and dying over? That's not to say Jacobs plan couldn't have backfired, and many Dead Horses could have been killed while trying to flee the canyon, and it leaves much to think about. Which plan do you think would have been the wisest?
 
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Ahh. I'm glad you've actually played it. I know its not typical Christian style fiction, but it hits home on a number of different levels because of the immense darkness surrounding the world. (I really enjoyed the Book of Eli, especially because of the postapocalyptic setting.)

I didn't grow up as a Christian, I was an athiest until I was 21, which was two years ago. I've been following basically every free roam game of note that there has been for the past 11 years.

"It's not really so much the violence in those games, it's more of the choices you decide to make. It's psychology, really. If the first time you play through these 'open world role playing games' that you find yourself out to destroy most everyone to begin with, align yourself with evil factions, and make immoral choices by hurting innocent NPC's then it truly does show where your heart and mind is. "

I have trod the dark path, and I did it in more than a few games. But as time went on, even before I had found the Lord, I was not inclined to take and plunder, steal and murder, and bring ill to those around the player character character.

And the reason why I usually played as a generally "good guy" sort of charcter in the few years before I found the Lord is exactly about what you talked about in regards to the extreme power potential of player characters in those games.

At first, when I realized the potential of a good aligned character, I went to the extreme, and went as pacifistic as I could, with concentrating on diplomacy, and bringing change through intrigue, stealthy espionage, and if taking life was unavoidable (like if I had a specific target that was quite evil), I would stealthily wind my way through the lair of such a person/thing/etc, and dispatch him/her/it quickly and quietly, so I didn't have to take the lives of his/her/its minions.

That went on for quite a few experiences in games like Oblivion, etc. Then I came to Fallout 3. I realized that the conceptual rendering of evil in that game was actually even more black and white than Elder Scrolls games.

I would bring myself into immersion (i've done it since I was a child in order to understand the what/why/hows of deep games. This is not to be confused with delusion) in a different style ever since then.

Colder, more driven, an interventionist. I wouldn't let fate (I only believe that fate truly exists in video games to make it clear :p) determine the outcome of the lives around me. I just acted, and my less passionate state of mind I adopted for games of that nature from then on in allowed me to more skillfully deal with any threats with renewed intensity of purpose, and cooly assess any fork in the road situation.

My style of play continued to develop faster than it ever had before. I used to be a person who would play a character that became consumed with prejudices about who was worthy to help, and who provoked me to anger now longer mattered in my "big picture thinking" (not real anger, but just an immersion factor). I used to be only satisfied at being the most outrageous, needlessly complicated, and over the top style of combatant. In otherwords, I let the potential power of a character be dedicated to flair, not substance of purpose.

Instead, once I started learning more about these games and the styles that can be imparted by the player him/herself, I became an impartial, analytical, remorseless force to be reckoned with (in a game point of view of course.) My approach to combat shifted 180 degrees. I was so preoccupied with form before that I would concentrate too much on one enemy in a group or type of enemy I wanted to deal with first. Just to make it look good to me.

Now in games, I can see the outcome and act on it with lighting reflexes. Its a simple process for me now. The means available to me don't matter, because I've become more well rounded as a player. Guns, swords, bows, magic, explosives, etc., are all just tools now to me, not romanticised embodiments of vengeance.

I find it better to deal this way. I act knowing that dehumanization is the worst thing that can happen to the mind while playing a game like those that are around these days. I do not enjoy killing if that is what the game entails (In fact, I have always liked many more civilian style games that deal with playing a merchant, or creating things like cities, etc)

I know that games like Gears of War and Call of Duty, and Halo depersonalize the violence, they make it easier to endure seeing (ironic really, if you've ever played any of the Gears games, you'll know what I mean by that).

I find that free roaming adventure games bring home that the enemies one encounters aren't faceless. They have stories, whether it is personal to them, or about the group they are from, or where they are from.

Anyways, enough of those observations...

"I'm not a pacifist, but I am willing to spare the lives of those who beg to live."

Yes, I agree. Who are we to be that judge, even in a video game? I do however, weigh the consequences of such things. Salt Upon Wounds, although fearful for his life, was not only the leader of the raider tribe called the White Legs (Who, by themselves cannot survive on their own without raiding and stealing, they have no hunting, gathering, foraging, or diplomatic skills as a culture. As such, they are extremely dangerous regardless of who has what they want, they'd take the clothes, items of importance and food/water from any and all if given the chance, and then either kill them or leave them to die with no supplies). Salt Upon Wounds above all else wanted his tribe to be absorbed into Caesar's Legion, which is why they were plauging Zion Canyon. That was Caesar's deal with Salt Upon Wounds: the White Legs had to eradicate the tribals of Zion Canyon AND kill Joshua Graham to be accept into Caesar's nation. Caesar doesn't accept subjects who aren't brutal enough to be loyal to him.

Sure, the White Legs may have been destroyed at the time of his pleading, and they were no longer a threat. I'll entertain that idea, for sure. But because Salt Upon Wounds wanted to join the Legion, Graham thought that enough reason to kill him, because the Legion took away everything that he had, including his soul for quite some time.

"Even though Joshua may have Christ in his heart, vengeance drives him, and as a result, he is like a dim light shining in darkness. Now that I look back, the decision to go with Joshua's plan wasn't wise, as Jacob was right. Is land really worth fighting and dying over? That's not to say Jacobs plan couldn't have backfired, and many Dead Horses could have been killed while trying to flee the canyon, and it leaves much to think about. Which plan do you think would have been the wisest? "

I have played through that expansion campaign a few times, and picked both options over a long period of time. I won't ruin the ending for you in regards to Jacob's plan. But I will say that I didn't expect the ramifacations of the retreat from Zion to be so far reaching, for every group involved.

It wasn't the Dead Horses I was worried about, they are a tribe that has dealt with intertribe conflict before, and they were so in tune with that part of the human condition that when Joshua Graham returned to them many years later (after serving in the Legion and after he became The Burned Man), they revered him even. They were actually scared of him at first because of his obvious skill with firearms in battle, and his grand strategy and tactics knowledge. But they saw he did in fact have a good heart, so he became the Dead Horses war chief (After New Caanan was destroyed he began to live with them permanently, not just as a missionary like he was in his youth)

Jacob, by comparison spent mostly all of his time as a missonary with The Sorrows, who did not know war. I believe he said "They can hunt and kill a full grown Yao Guai with ease, but they cannot imagine killing a person. They haven't had to deal with conflict for generations.". Thats why Jacob wanted them to leave, not so much for the land (Which Joshua held in high regard), but for the souls of the Sorrows. They were "almost pure and innocent", I recall Jacob saying about them. He was convinced that if the Sorrows became involved in war that it would destroy their society, and they would never recover.

In closing, to be honest, I can't tell which was the right action. They both had their pros and cons. I guess I can boil it down this way: Joshua knew he was trying to preserve Zion's future. Jacob knew he was trying to preserve the people of Zion in the present.

Heh, I never thought of it, but when I was just thinking back about all the things I remember Graham talking about, and the way he approached conflict even, it reminds me a lot of my current play style with games like Fallout. Lol, even further than that, I guess that may be one of the reasons that Joshua's m1911a1, known as "A Light Shining In the Darkness" is my favourite weapon in that game. Once I found it, I never had to use anything else, at all. Still to this day I basically only use that in FO:NV.
 
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believer990

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well i love games but i know god don't wantme in that because im putting it first in my mind rather than him, the way he deal me with it is convicting through the holy spirit and i always lose so i lose my interest. but the one that i really give up that i really like and more im addicting on is anime. i made a promise that ill stop watching and he ehlp me fullfuling that promise and im very thankfull to god.
 
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