Are the dead conscious and do the continue to exist?

[ebia]

Those who have died in Christ are with Christ awaiting the resurrection. What exactly that looks like doesn't seem to be a question the New Testament is very interested in answering.

 

[RND]

Those who have died in Christ are with Christ awaiting the resurrection.

Since Christ is at the right hand of the Father and ministering as our High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary where exactly are those that are "with Christ awaiting the resurrection"?

What exactly that looks like doesn't seem to be a question the New Testament is very interested in answering.

I think both the Old and New Testaments do a wonderful, concise job in explaining the 'state of the dead.' My opinion of course.

 

[ebia]

Since Christ is at the right hand of the Father and ministering as our High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary where exactly are those that are "with Christ awaiting the resurrection"?

Since "with Christ" may or may not mean "in the same physical/spacial location as Christ" I wouldn't be dogmatic about what exactly the phrase means, especially given that our physical disjunction at that point.

I think both the Old and New Testaments do a wonderful, concise job in explaining the 'state of the dead.' My opinion of course.

I don't. For most of the OT the answer to where are the dead is, basically, "dead". For the new it's not the question it wants to answer. IMO opinion when people have clear answers to the question it is because they are pressing texts to yield an answer to a question they are not addressing.

 

[RND]

Since "with Christ" may or may not mean "in the same physical/spacial location as Christ" I wouldn't be dogmatic about what exactly the phrase means, especially given that our physical disjunction at that point.

I'd liken that with "the dead in Christ."

I don't. For most of the OT the answer to where are the dead is, basically, "dead". For the new it's not the question it wants to answer. IMO opinion when people have clear answers to the question it is because they are pressing texts to yield an answer to a question they are not addressing.

So when Job vividly describes death and resurrection that's not a clear description of what happens at death?

 

[ebia]

I'd liken that with "the dead in Christ."

So when Job vividly describes death and resurrection that's not a clear description of what happens at death?

I don't think it does "vividly describe death and resurrection".

 

[Timothew]

If you poke a dead person does he say, "hey! stop poking me!"
No. The reason for this is that he is unconscious.

If you go to a funeral and see a dead person, there he is! Dead people don't cease to exist.

So the correct answer to the poll is b:
All the dead are unconscious, but they do not cease to exist.

I'm surprised that the best answer only got 3 votes.

 

[Gary51]

If you go to a funeral and see a dead person, there he is! Dead people don't cease to exist.

The person or personality ceases to exist. The dead body will always exist in one form or another, as matter cannot be distroyed. It can only change form.

 

[Timothew]

The person or personality ceases to exist. The dead body will always exist in one form or another, as matter cannot be distroyed. It can only change form.

So A and B are essentially the same answer. That makes me feel better, now there are 9 people who got the question right.

 

[Gary51]

So A and B are essentially the same answer. That makes me feel better, now there are 9 people who got the question right.

What question would that be? I was responding to a statement!

 

[Timothew]

What question would that be? I was responding to a statement!

The question is: Are the dead conscious and do they continue to exist?

The biblical and common sense answer is "No" to the first part and "It depends on what you mean by exist" to the second part.

 

[Rocky1960]

If you poke a dead person does he say, "hey! stop poking me!"
No. The reason for this is that he is unconscious.

I must apologize, but I cannot charachterize that statement as anything but nonsense.

A dead body is not unconscious, it is dead. That is because the person who once occupied it is gone, and that is why the vacated corpse does not say, "hey! stop poking me!".

The real question is: Is the person who once occupied that body and who has now gone to be with the Lord unconscious? The Scriptures indicate that they are not unconscious. The Scriptures indicate that they are alive and aware.

 

[Timothew]

I must apologize, but I cannot charachterize that statement as anything but nonsense.

A dead body is not unconscious, it is dead. That is because the person who once occupied it is gone, and that is why the vacated corpse does not say, "hey! stop poking me!".

The real question is: Is the person who once occupied that body and who has now gone to be with the Lord unconscious? The Scriptures indicate that they are not unconscious. The Scriptures indicate that they are alive and aware.

Your statement contains a huge assumption: "the person who once occupied that body..."

Please provide scriptural support for your assumption.

Or could you provide medical support for your belief that there is a little man inside you controlling your body? That sounds like paranoia.

 

[Gary51]

The question is: Are the dead conscious and do they continue to exist?

The biblical and common sense answer is "No" to the first part and "It depends on what you mean by exist" to the second part.

Then we agree.

 

[Gary51]

The Scriptures indicate that they are not unconscious. The Scriptures indicate that they are alive and aware.

Apparently, you rely on indications. That is why you are mistaken. Scripture is quite plain that that the dead are not conscious. I rely on facts.

 

[RibI]

I must apologize, but I cannot charachterize that statement as anything but nonsense.

A dead body is not unconscious, it is dead. That is because the person who once occupied it is gone, and that is why the vacated corpse does not say, "hey! stop poking me!".

The real question is: Is the person who once occupied that body and who has now gone to be with the Lord unconscious? The Scriptures indicate that they are not unconscious. The Scriptures indicate that they are alive and aware.

That is simply not true.
That is superstition and traditions of men, not biblical.

 

[Der Alte]

Apparently, you rely on indications. That is why you are mistaken. Scripture is quite plain that that the dead are not conscious. I rely on facts.

Which facts exactly do you rely on? In Isaiah 14 there is a long passage about the king of Babylon dying, and according to many the dead know nothing. They are supposedly annihilated, destroyed, gone! God, Himself, speaking, these dead people in שאול/sheol, know something, they move, meet the dead coming to sheol, stir up, raise up, speak and say, etc.

Isa 14:9-11 (KJV)
9) Hell [שאול] from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11) Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [שאול] and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
[ . . . ]
22) For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.​

In this passage God, himself is speaking, and I see a whole lot of shaking going on, moving, rising up, and speaking in . These dead people seem to know something, about something. We know that verses 11 through 14 describe actual historical events, the death of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babble-on.

Here is another passage where God himself is speaking and people who are dead in sheol, speaking, being ashamed, comforted, etc.

Ezek 32:18-22, 30-31 (KJV)
18) Son of man, [Ezekiel] wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.
19) Whom dost thou pass in beauty? go down, and be thou laid with the uncircumcised.
20) They shall fall in the midst of them that are slain by the sword: she is delivered to the sword: draw her and all her multitudes.
21) The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell [שאול] with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
22) Asshur is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword::[ . . . ]
Eze 32:30-31
(30) There be the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Zidonians, which are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit.
(31)Pharaoh shall see them, and shall be comforted over all his multitude, even Pharaoh and all his army slain by the sword, saith the Lord GOD.​

That is simply not true.
That is superstition and traditions of men, not biblical.

I quoted scripture that makes it biblical, and very true. God himself is speaking in both passages!

 

[Rocky1960]

One should be reticent to argue with Der Über Älter.

 

[Der Alte]

One should be reticent to argue with Der Über Älter.

One should be reticent to argue with the word of God.

 

[Rocky1960]

One should be reticent to argue with Der Über Älter.

One should be reticent to argue with the word of God.

Agreed.

 

[Gary51]

Which facts exactly do you rely on?

The ones that you plainly don't understand.