Are Most Catholics Hell-bound?

[Chrystal-J]

I think it has to do (partly) with receiving communion. Jesus said (regarding receiving the Eucharist) in Luke 22:

19 And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

1 Corinthians 11:26
23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

Since you can't get the Eucharist outside of church, it makes church attendance necessary. Church attendance (for those able to go) is a blessing. If someone is too sick or truly unable to attend for other reasons, then there are ways to participate in services. Eucharistic Ministers can bring you the Eucharist at home, for example.

 

[Struggling Sinner]

Cosmic Charlie,

That's called presumption which, according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is a mortal sin. And encouraging others in this is scandal which is even more serious and what Jesus warned about in Matthew 18:6. You need the Sacrament of Reconciliation for this. It's only complicated when you make it that way. There is nothing in this world more simple than the Catholic faith because all the basics of what we need for our salvation and eternal happiness is all figured out for us. All we have to do is obey, and we will be happy forever.

Personally, I just gave up.

And maybe that's the right thing to do. Just surrender to mercy and let it go.

I no longer thing about the practical implications of the moral theology of the Church.

It's too complicated, too over analyzed and too legalistic.

I just do what I think is best using Christ as a guide and don't really think about my spiritual destination much.

Now

People will tell you this is somehow being morally relative.

Well, ok

But I can't and won't go through life paralyzed by fear to the point of doing nothing for fear of doing something wrong.

It's better this way.

I think anyway

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

how long have you been a practicing Catholic?

 

[truefiction1]

I thought it was if you're outside the church knowing full well that it's the one true church established by Christ? Most people outside the church don't agree or know this to be a fact.

Personally I'm outside the church. I've spent the last two or three months seriously looking into the church, along with Orthodoxy, from a Lutheran, former Pentecostal, background. A couple weeks ago I met my breaking point and snapped. I got so sick and tired of the legalistic crap that doesn't resemble the NT church or anything the Lord said, between Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Lutheranism, Pentecostalism, Baptist/Calvinism, Methodism, etc. Everyone calling everyone false and or/evil, twisting scriptures to prove who's right and who's wrong. Everyone believing something different with a different set of rules. I got so stressed out to the point of not sleeping. I was wishing God would just come down and tell me to my face who's right, what the right path was. Then I remembered what Jesus said..... Just be a child. Just believe in me. I've taken a break from organized religion and focused on just God alone. My stress is relieved. God used a dream and a Pentecostal preacher to save me a couple years ago. He didn't use Catholicism. He used his message.

There's no way this God is sending me to hell for being outside the church. There's no way God is punishing me for being his child and letting all the legalistic crap go. When I get my strength back and my mind right I'll investigate again, but I won't let it consume me that way it did. He makes it so easy for us but we feel the need to make it difficult. Jesus didn't say to go through so many months of this class or that class to be part of the church, and that's true from the LCMS and RCC, among many others. Man it just destroyed my mind.

This reminds me of Sola Scriptura. If you're blind how can you rely on scripture alone? If you're in a place in this world where there is no RCC you can get to how can you be part of the church?

Just believe. Receive the message and believe. Before people jump down my throat for "oh em gee, what's with all these ppl teaching against our doctrine?" don't bother. I'm not giving up on you all, just taking a break and getting my mind right. The God that I keep in touch with daily, live my life for, who has blessed me, saved me, isn't sending me to hell for not being part of your label.

I Corinthians, chapter 13
I John 4:8
John 3:8
Ephesians 5:32
I Corinthians 2:6-16

"Oh, if you only knew what joy, what sweetness awaits a righteous soul in Heaven! You would decide in this mortal life to bear any sorrows, persecutions and slander with gratitude. If this very cell of ours was filled with worms, and these worms were to eat our flesh for our entire life on earth, we should agree to it with total desire, in order not to lose, by any chance, that heavenly joy which God has prepared for those who love Him." -- Seraphim of Sarov

God bless.

 

[Starlightsobright]

On the rare occasions I have missed Mass I try and make up for it during the week by attending then.

 

[StevenMerten]

Hello Misstea,

To obey God is to love God. Mankind's purpose in life is to love God. God did not make it all that difficult to love Him through obedience to His Commandments.

One of God's Commandments is to keep Holy the Sabbath. In other words, go to Mass on Sunday and refrain from work. Another of God's Commandments is to not use the Lord's name in vain. These seem like minuscule things. They are not. They, along with all God's Commandments, are the way in which we produce the fruit of love for God.

It is more correct to believe that those who go to heaven are those who love God through obedience to His Commandments.

NAB2 1JO 5:3

For the love of God is this, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome,

NAB2 JOH 14:15

If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

NAB MAR 10:17

As he was setting out on a journey a man came running up, knelt down before him and asked, "Good Teacher, what must I do to share in everlasting life?" Jesus answered, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments:
'You shall not kill;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
You shall not defraud;
Honor your father and your mother.'"

Quoted from:
Jesus, What Must I Do To Share In Everlasting Life?

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Cosmic Charlie,

That's called presumption which, according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is a mortal sin. And encouraging others in this is scandal which is even more serious and what Jesus warned about in Matthew 18:6. You need the Sacrament of Reconciliation for this. It's only complicated when you make it that way. There is nothing in this world more simple than the Catholic faith because all the basics of what we need for our salvation and eternal happiness is all figured out for us. All we have to do is obey, and we will be happy forever.

Hey SS:

You do your conscience and I'll do mine


Your opinion of my spiritual health means very little to me.

Actually, to be honest, it means absolutely nothing.

 

[benedictaoo]

On the rare occasions I have missed Mass I try and make up for it during the week by attending then.

and I think that's so cool and admirable, I really do but according to "da rules" you can't. and all that means is you still have to confess it before Communion time comes again. I'm sure the Lord sees your efforts and appreciates them but you know He also expects us to follow the rules of the Church.

We can not substitute our Sunday obligation with a weekday Mass. Only when we are given special permission by our priest may we.

 

[benedictaoo]

If that is what he said, he's a dangerous idiot.

Missing Mass is not a mortal sin. It's potential grave matter, but it's not a mortal sin. Maybe he was feeling down on himself from looking at too much porn the night before?

Well SA... old school does talk like that. Our parents and our parents parents were all scared with hell fire if they missed Mass and no one needed explanation about what that really means in detail. Now, for some reason, we do.

 

[benedictaoo]

Cosmic Charlie,

That's called presumption which, according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is a mortal sin. And encouraging others in this is scandal which is even more serious and what Jesus warned about in Matthew 18:6. You need the Sacrament of Reconciliation for this. It's only complicated when you make it that way. There is nothing in this world more simple than the Catholic faith because all the basics of what we need for our salvation and eternal happiness is all figured out for us. All we have to do is obey, and we will be happy forever.

Right back at ya. and I would put my money on CC over other people who go to mass everyday of the week. Why? because what does it profit a man to be a jerk all the time acting like he is so holy and wonderful? That is scandal of the highest degree, IMO.

 

[benedictaoo]

and then there is the whole honesty issue that we don't need to go into. "Practice what you preach" is good advice for all of us to follow.

 

[MKJ]

Whether most Catholics are going to hell - for this reason or another - I do not know, nor does anyone else. What I do know is that it is a mortal sin to choose to miss Sunday Mass unless that obligation is suspended for some reason such as sickness or dispensation. I'll try my best to explain why.

Catholics used to - and still do - die for celebrating Mass. At the beginning of the fourth century, for example, a group of Christians were brought before the Emperor Diocletian when they were caught celebrating Mass; they responded to the Emperor's questions by saying "Sine dominico non possumus vitrare": "Without Sunday, we cannot live." The reason they said this can be seen in the theology of the Mass. The Mass is the same sacrifice as the Passion of Christ; that is why every Catholic Church must have a crucifix - it's to show in space the reality that is taking place: that in the Mass, we really experience the past, present, and future running together. The priest says the words of Christ "This is my body; this is my blood," but he doesn't say them so that we remember "hey yah, Jesus said those words; I'd forgotten..." the priest says them because it is as though we are right now in the Upper Room with Jesus as He celebrates the Last Supper. The Last Supper is meaningless without the sacrifice on the Cross, though, and so the crucifix is prominent; through Sacred Time, we are standing at the foot of the Cross at the same time as we are at the Last Supper. Finally, through the mystery of the Eucharist, we rise with Christ and share in a pre-emptive way the eternal Sacrifice that is depicted in Revelation as the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. In fact, it is because of the connection with the future - with rising with Christ - that Christians celebrate on Sunday. The Pope-Emeritus writes in Light of the World:

"We always have to keep present in our minds the fact that he tells us with the greatest certainty 'I will come again.' This statement comes before everything else. This is also why the Mass was originally celebrated facing east, toward the returning Lord, who is symbolized in the rising sun. Every Mass is therefore an act of going out to meet the One who is coming."
​

We "go out" to meet the rising Christ on Sunday - the day that He rose in time, now mysteriously extended in Sacred Time. The Christians brought before Diocletian understood this - hence they were wiling to die for it. It is a sad reality of the modern era that Catholics - far more comfortable today than at any other time in history - can't go to Mass rather than a baseball game. Jesus tells the parable of the ten virgins in Matthew 25: we want to be the five virgins who went out to meet the Bridegroom, not the virgins who weren't prepared and went away.

Sunday Mass is not a "technicality" or a rule that doesn't have "a ring of truth in it." God is everywhere, but that has never stopped people from saying "God is in the people I meet." Clearly, God is present in a special way in other people - distinct from His presence everywhere else; He was also present in a special way when He was walking around two-thousand years ago. Well, the Eucharist is another way in which He is specially present - in fact, present in the same way as He was when walking around two-thousand years ago. Jesus has given us the gift of Himself and... oh for crying out loud: the all-powerful, all-present, unmovable, unchanging, and uncircumscribed God has come really present under the appearance of bread and wine; what are people doing going to a baseball game? The reason that Catholics are to go on Sunday is because Sunday has been forever changed by the greatest of all miracles: the rising of Christ from the grave. The Jews were right to celebrate the Rest of God; when Jesus came and rose, He fulfilled the thing that the Sabbath was pointing to, and so Sunday has superseded Saturday.

It seems that Descartes' tentacles reach far; people like to try and separate their actions in the body from their actions in the soul, as if the two were completely separate. The result is that some people make sovereigns of their feelings (i.e. whether they "feel" like they are alright with God, or doing the right thing). "Feelings" are not the experience of God; they are fickle and easily influenced by many perfectly natural factors. The Church has always taught a unity of body and soul; that what I do in the temporal present affects my soul, my being, and my spirituality. And in this case, we couldn't ask for a gentler obligation: we are obligated to celebrate at least once a week through participation in the sublime mystery of the Passion of Christ. We desperately need the wisdom of the martyrs under Diocletian, so that we too can say "without Sunday, we cannot live."

You know, I know a lot of people that take attending the Sunday Eucharist very seriously, who rarely miss it, who would agree with everything you say here. But would still say that there is something about this teaching that does not ring true for them.

So I am not sure that it is these ideas that they are really having a problem with.

 

[Caedmon]

Personally, I just gave up.

And maybe that's the right thing to do. Just surrender to mercy and let it go.

I no longer thing about the practical implications of the moral theology of the Church.

It's too complicated, too over analyzed and too legalistic.

I just do what I think is best using Christ as a guide and don't really think about my spiritual destination much.

Now

People will tell you this is somehow being morally relative.

Well, ok

But I can't and won't go through life paralyzed by fear to the point of doing nothing for fear of doing something wrong.

It's better this way.

I think anyway

Yes. There are too many rules, too many details, too many controversies, too many conflicting opinions, and too much fear, paranoia, fanaticism, and arrogance to be more than minimally concerned about the implications of the Church's moral teachings. Just do good stuff.

 

[judechild]

But would still say that there is something about this teaching that does not ring true for them.

So I am not sure that it is these ideas that they are really having a problem with.

Well, the majority of the people I know do not know of the idea of the Mass-as-Sacrifice, but that idea is the cornerstone in the teaching of the Catholic Church on the matter. If the Mass is the same sacrifice as the Sacrifice of Christ, then it has the same moral force as the Sabbath in the era before Christ (even more moral force, I suppose). The choice, then, is always between the Sacrifice of Christ, and by extension, Christ Himself, and a baseball game - and choosing the latter implies a rejection of the former. I can't help but attribute it to ignorance, considering the alternative is fully knowing the unreasonableness of it, and choosing the unreasonable response anyway.

I wonder what the responses would be if we changed the OP's question to "if a person lived as a Christian all her life, feeding the poor, going to Mass, etc., and then one day was offered a significant amount of money if she would reject Christ - would she be damned if she did not confess her sin?"

 

[WisdomTree]

It really comes down to the reason for missing mass. The priest who confirmed me told me that if you're very ill and can't even go out of bed, then not only is it okay to miss mass, but recommended. However, if it's out of laziness then you're sinning against the Lord's commandment (which is what the Church laws are). It looks like legalistic crap because they are organized under canon law, however missal attendance is an obligation which God himself has commanded and to miss it would be disobey our Maker himself which back in the good ol' days was punished with death (refer Moses and the dude who picked up sticks).

 

[mark46]

You seem concerned that many don't understand the nuances of the CHurch's dogma regarding Mass-as sacrifice. 1/3-2/3 (depending on the study and wording) don't believe that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist. This is much more concerning to me.
=======================
IMHO, the position you state is legalism. What you seem to be implying is that if folks cannot pass a catechism test on the Mass-as-sacrifice, they are doomed.

The Mercy of Jesus is not based on our passing a catechism test. It is not measured by the number, severity, and timing of our sins (worse close to death). The Mercy of God is based on His sovereignty. We have been promised that if we cooperate with the gift of faith, we can then hope for eternal life with Him. So, Jesus will look into our hearts.

And just BTW, the understanding of Mass-as Sacrifice is not the only view of Scripture. The Orthodox reject this as a late Western addition to dogma.

Well, the majority of the people I know do not know of the idea of the Mass-as-Sacrifice, but that idea is the cornerstone in the teaching of the Catholic Church on the matter. If the Mass is the same sacrifice as the Sacrifice of Christ, then it has the same moral force as the Sabbath in the era before Christ (even more moral force, I suppose). The choice, then, is always between the Sacrifice of Christ, and by extension, Christ Himself, and a baseball game - and choosing the latter implies a rejection of the former. I can't help but attribute it to ignorance, considering the alternative is fully knowing the unreasonableness of it, and choosing the unreasonable response anyway.

 

[Chrystal-J]

So, according to some of these posts...

In order to be Catholic--you don't need to go to Mass, receive the Eucharistic or go to confession (where you'd have to confess you're deliberately not going to Mass).
What constitutes being "Catholic" then? Just saying that you are?

 

[Gingareeree]

So, according to some of these posts...

In order to be Catholic--you don't need to go to Mass, receive the Eucharistic or go to confession (where you'd have to confess you're deliberately not going to Mass).
What constitutes being "Catholic" then? Just saying that you are?

For a vast number of Catholics,just being one in name only,or on the margins is sufficient.There is a reason why Pope Benedict declared this the year of faith.So many Catholics are poorly cathetized,with only a basic understanding of their faith.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

So, according to some of these posts...

In order to be Catholic--you don't need to go to Mass, receive the Eucharistic or go to confession (where you'd have to confess you're deliberately not going to Mass).
What constitutes being "Catholic" then? Just saying that you are?

Sure why not.

If you can be against unions, libertarian, anti social safety net, work against an economically just society and still say you're Catholic well, fair is fair.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I won't comment upon the Roman Catholic teaching regarding missing Mass. I'll leave this to the OBOB forum members. I will say that we should always strive to attend the Divine services as are offered, as a strict form of discipline because of our own individual spiritual needs as well as the needs of our individual parish communities who really need for us to be there. This is especially important in very small parishes.

Exactly. We should want to worship God, at least weekly. This is called setting the bar very high. Aim high, and then deal with the exceptions. I am happy to say that I've never missed Mass on Sunday as long as I've been Catholic. But there were some close calls. Once, in a family setting, the entire family was taking a flight on Sunday-two hours drive to the airport, two hours check in, one hour flight, then those less worship-minded decided to take a tour of the city. I figured I didn't have a choice but to miss Mass, and I was genuinely sorry. We ended up the day, however, at a Catholic shrine and basilica where they celebrated Mass every hour, and walked in just as the procession was starting.

I know Americans, however, who go on vacation during the summer, and leave God at home in the process. Spend a fortune on Disneyworld, and forget to go to Mass in favor of getting to the park early.

As bene said, it's an attitude. Am I not going because I simply don't want to go? Or are there good circumstances why?