Are humans evolving?

[Loudmouth]

Oh I understand that just fine, it is apparently evolutionist's who do not - since they still think Africans produced the entire infraspecific taxa in the human species without mating with another infraspecific taxa in the human species.

What does that have to do with chimps and humans sharing common ancestry? What is it about Africans and Asian mating patterns that disproves shared ancestry between species?

I fully admit that Africans will never produce anything but Africans and Asians will never produce anything but Asians unless they mate with another infraspecific taxa within the species.

Please prove that a 10% change in the human genome will not produce a population of humans that differs significantly from modern human populations.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Please prove that a 10% change in the human genome will not produce a population of humans that differs significantly from modern human populations.

"to have undergone enough spontaneous mutations that every possible single point mutation in the E. coli genome has occurred multiple times."

 

[pgp_protector]

Modern Day Africans are not what man originated from.

 

[Loudmouth]

"to have undergone enough spontaneous mutations that every possible single point mutation in the E. coli genome has occurred multiple times."

Yes, every single position in the E. coli PARENTAL GENOME has occurred once in a single organism. Each of those descendants would have a single mutation. Just one. There is absolutely no expectation that a single mutation will produce a new species of bacteria. Can you please explain why you think a single mutation would produce a new species of bacteria?

You also ducked the question.

Please prove that a 10% change in the modern human genome will not produce a species that is significantly different from modern humans.

 

[Jimmy D]

But then I also accept that Adam was created genetically perfect with all possible genetic combinations already within his genes - and that they were separated half into Eve. As was all life created male and female from the start - two different infraspecific taxa.

Thanks, I was wondering where you believed the various races came from. How long ago do you believe they migrated to their various regions around the globe?

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Modern Day Africans are not what man originated from.

Doesn't matter, double-talk all you like - whatever those original Africans were, they by your own admissions would of remained just that..... Your double-talk is useless to attempt to get around your own recognized truth. How far back do you wish to go with the analogy?

 

[Loudmouth]

Doesn't matter, double-talk all you like - whatever those original Africans were, they by your own admissions would of remained just that..... Your double-talk is useless to attempt to get around your own recognized truth. How far back do you wish to go with the analogy?

Just as we have remained vertebrates, as have all vertebrates that we share a common ancestor with.

 

[pgp_protector]

Doesn't matter, double-talk all you like - whatever those original Africans were, they by your own admissions would of remained just that..... Your double-talk is useless to attempt to get around your own recognized truth. How far back do you wish to go with the analogy?

Remember the Dogs ?
Same thing happens with Humans.

 

[pgp_protector]

Asians, Europeans, Modern Day Africans, ect are all variations in the species.

They're All HUMAN though.
All Naron are Humans, not all Humans are Naron
All Eastern Pygmy are Humans, not all Humans are Eastern Pygmy.
Ect...
Really it's not that hard to understand.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Thanks, I was wondering where you believed the various races came from. How long ago do you believe they migrated to their various regions around the globe?

Almost instantly - after God separated them at the Tower of Babel because they disobeyed his command to be fruitful and multiple and "FILL" the earth.

Genesis 11:4 'Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth."'

Since after the flood they refused to go out unto the earth - they were made to do so regardless. It was our purpose to care for the earth, regardless that we have done an exceedingly poor job of it.

 

[Loudmouth]

Almost instantly - after God separated them at the Tower of Babel because they disobeyed his command to be fruitful and multiple and "FILL" the earth.

Evidence for any of this?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Then you admit evolution is falsified since they claim 2 Africans created Asians and the rest of humanity.

That is just not true.
Unless you just moved the goalpost, off course.

Because I was building on your insinuated idea of 2 asian people, as in a breeding pair, having sex and produceing off spring from a different race.

Oh, you forgot about the out of Africa scenario I expect.

No, I just forgot about your dishonest tactics of moving goalposts.

But I am sure you will now double-talk to avoid what you just admitted as true - the falsification of evolution.

I don't need to. Dishonesty doesn't falsify anything.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Sorry, but I think you lost them at all fruit are not apples. The second you went beyond all apples are fruit you went too deep, beyond the elementary.

I think it's hilarious how you think what he said, supports your absurd position.

 

[Loudmouth]

So let's summarize Justa's argument, shall we?

When two organisms that differ by 0.1% at the genome level produce an offspring that has 50 mutations of its own in a 3 billion base genome, we would expect the offspring to not be significantly different from their parents and be able to reproduce with other offspring that were created in the same manner within the human population. We don't expect the offspring to be an entirely new species that is incapable of breeding with any other modern humans.

However, this has no bearing on the claim that the accumulation of mutations in a single generation will not lead to a new species over thousands of generations. It's as if Justa is saying that we can't walk to the store that is a mile away because a single step only covers 3 feet. We are saying that generations separated by millions of years within our lineage have accumulated mutations to the point that they are different species. Pointing to the limited change in a single generation in no way refutes this argument.

 

[Jimmy D]

Almost instantly - after God separated them at the Tower of Babel because they disobeyed his command to be fruitful and multiple and "FILL" the earth.

Genesis 11:4 'Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth."'

Since after the flood they refused to go out unto the earth - they were made to do so regardless. It was our purpose to care for the earth, regardless that we have done an exceedingly poor job of it.

According to the timeline I've just seen the Tower of Babel thing happened about 4000 years ago. Are you suggesting that the rest of the world was unpopulated at that time? Did the Eastern asians, Australian Aboriginies, native Americans and Northern Europeans etc only appear after this incident? As it was only 400 years or so after the Flood the population must have been tiny to start of with.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Remember the Dogs ?
Same thing happens with Humans.

Agreed, but then they never become anything but dogs do they - just different infraspecific taxa within the canine species. Your point being to falsify evolution even more? And btw, it didn't start with one canine infraspecific taxa, but at he minimum of two.

The point being no matter how far you go back you are presented with the same problem - that infraspecific taxa would not become anything else until it mates with another infraspecific taxa in the species.

ALL dogs are the same species - just different infraspecific taxa in that species. Whether human intervention or geological changes forcing them together, the most they can become is infraspecific taxa - if you stop ignoring your own science that is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species

"Presence of specific locally adapted traits may further subdivide species into "infraspecific taxa" such as subspecies (and in botany other taxa are used, such as varieties, subvarieties, and formae)."

You will NEVER get another species - only other infraspecific taxa within the species..... Unless of course they incorrectly classify things and ignore their own scientific definitions, which of course they do daily.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

According to the timeline I've just seen the Tower of Babel thing happened about 4000 years ago. Are you suggesting that the rest of the world was unpopulated at that time? Did the Eastern asians, Australian Aboriginies, native Americans and Northern Europeans etc only appear after this incident? As it was only 400 years or so after the Flood the population must have been tiny to start of with.

Continue tracing it back in time.

I'm not the one that again - wants you to believe it started from anything but a few - and took time to recover from that disaster. I am not the one asking you to believe that for hundreds of thousands of years the population remained constant.

You are confusing Neanderthal, etc with modern times, not pre-flood times.

http://biblehub.com/genesis/6-4.htm

Let's go over it again - all fossils are from times of worldwide floods, whether Noah's day or during the second verse of genesis. You have no fossils becoming fossilized in modern times despite countless local floods.

 

[Loudmouth]

Agreed, but then they never become anything but dogs do they -

\

Just as we are still vertebrates, as are all of the other vertebrates that we share a common ancestor with.

The point being no matter how far you go back you are presented with the same problem - that infraspecific taxa would not become anything else until it mates with another infraspecific taxa in the species.

That isn't a problem. The accumulation of mutations over time will work just fine with this requirement. What you need to show is that generations separated by millions of years are still the same species.

 

[Loudmouth]

Continue tracing it back in time.

I'm not the one that again - wants you to believe it started from anything but a few - and took time to recover from that disaster. I am not the one asking you to believe that for hundreds of thousands of years the population remained constant.

Why is a constant human population a problem?

Let's go over it again - all fossils are from times of worldwide floods, whether Noah's day or during the second verse of genesis. You have no fossils becoming fossilized in modern times despite countless local floods.

Bare assertions are not evidence.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Let's summarize Loud's argument shall we?

He accepts that simple organisms such as E coli never become anything but E coli. Then ignores this despite the fact that "to have undergone enough spontaneous mutations that every possible single point mutation in the E. coli genome has occurred multiple times."

Then wants you to ignore that he agrees they always remain the same and believe that in the past they became every type of life you observe, despite the fact he agrees they will never become anything other than what they are....

So hypocrisy and double talk is Loud's argument. But I expect nothing more from someone that refuses to accept what is right before his eyes when birds interbreed and produce fertile offspring backed up by DNA data showing thy have always interbred so never became separate species in the first place. Again against his own scientific definitions to boot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species

"Presence of specific locally adapted traits may further subdivide species into "infraspecific taxa" such as subspecies (and in botany other taxa are used, such as varieties, subvarieties, and formae)."

So even had specific local traits developed - and I agree they adapted to their environment, they would simply become infraspecific taxa of the same species......