Are Allah and Yaweh the same God?

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Are Allah (of the Qur'an) and YHVH the same god?

That depends on whom you ask. See, the Abrahamaic religions are somewhat similar to a movie franchise:

The Jews are fans of the original, and totally disown all the sequels. To them, "The Coventant Reloaded" and "The Covenant III - The Mecca Revolution" never happened. So, if you asked them, "Allah" wouldn't be the same god as YHVH - and neither would the trinitarian Christian deity.

Christians say that the first sequel is the one that truly matters, being the crowning achievement in the franchise, like "The Godfather, Part II". They think the original movie was only the prelude to the good stuff, although not altogether bad in and of itself. They especially like the way the second part relates to the first, and even go so far as to put the horse on the saddle by saying that the original was merely meant to foreshadow the sequel - even though outside observers would point out that it's quite easy for script writers to include references to the first part that look like "fulfilled prophecies" - after all, they had the original installment to work with.

Muslims think that the first two installments were corrupted versions of the original idea the director had in mind, possibly due to interference from the studio and the producers trying to make it more marketable. They think that the third part is the best, as they claim it's the only version that stayed true to the original script, being authored by the director himself. (Of course, fans of the other parts disagree vehemently!)

Ah, this is original. I notice how long you wrote for the Christian section. Flattering.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

In the West, it may have been a rather marginalized phenomenon, but in the Orthodox Church, Theoria has always been alive and well.

Know your own history, dude.

Orthodox Christianity is mystical, but we are not to seek out estatic experiences or visions. Our goal is union with God, partaking of His divine nature. That will involve emotions and experiences that cannot be explained, but those are not to be the focus of our worship.

There are also times of dryness where God seems far away but these are just as mystical as when we feel God very near. There is the desert were Christ fasted for 40 days and there is Mount Tabor where the glory of God shined and Transfigured. Both are places for union with God. The Holy Spirit "is everywhere and fillest all things." These are words we pray several times per day.

Our life in Christ is to be centered around the Holy Mysteries (sacraments) which sustain us. Added to that is common prayer that unifies us, fasting and almsgiving. All of this is mystical whether we have feelings or visions or not.


http://www.christianforums.com/t7386728-4/#post52572332

 

[JudaicChristian]

By quoting who, Arius? If Christ was not God, then you make Him a liar. If the Christian Church, with the leadership of Apostles always proclaimed this truth about Christ, never ceased to worship Him, then you make His Apostles liars, too. You are not the first one who wanted to keep Christianity a sect of Judaism, refer to Council of Jerusalem, where St. James presided over, as described in Acts 15, in which a major dispute between the Jewish Christians and the Gentile converts was settled. The Jewish Christians wanted to require that the new converts be circumcised, and St. Paul and St. Barnabas stood in strong opposition. Through the power of the Holy Spirit, St. James pronounced that the Gentiles were free from the ceremonial requirements of the Mosaic law, but that they must be sure to put away the idolatry and sexual immorality that were rampant in their culture. Christian Church's main objective back then was, as it is now, to protect the Truth the Saints passed on, not fabricate stories. No one goes to martyrdom for simple stories they themselves made up.

Circumcision is not an issue. Yes the Mosaic laws have been done away with. I'm not allowed to debate trinitarianism.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

You forgot to mention Judaic Christians. (Judaizing Christians)
True Christianity is a sect or branch of Judaism. We do not believe in Trinitarianism, hell, Sunday Sabbath, Easter, or any form of Paganism and Mysticism.

Do you believe in the Bible that was written by those who believed in above?

 

[humblemuslim]

It has one Greek original. You want to compare?

Which one do you believe is the original?

Matthew 1:1 Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin

Even though the verse presented in the link does not have disagreement over words, there are places where the different Greek sources disagree. Sometimes minor disagreements, sometimes not.

I'm just wondering which one is considered correct, at least in your opinion.

"I'm not sure" is also a valid response. Because that is where I stand

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Circumcision is not an issue. Yes the Mosaic laws have been done away with. I'm not allowed to debate trinitarianism.

If Mosaic laws have been done away with, why tie Judaism to Christianity? And no, you are allowed to, in a designated location. The belief of a Triune God, as manifested in Christian Scriptures, is the CENTRAL DOGMA of Christian Theology, without Triune God, Christian Theology doesn't stand.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Even though the verse presented in the link does not have disagreement over words, there are places where the different Greek sources disagree. Sometimes minor disagreements, sometimes not.

What seems to be problematic to you in that one verse?

 

[JudaicChristian]

Do you believe in the Bible that was written by those who believed in above?

I believe that scripture is divinely inspired. But I also know that scripture has been tampered with by Gnostic Pagans.

 

[JudaicChristian]

If Mosaic laws have been done away with, why tie Judaism to Christianity? And no, you are allowed to, in a designated location. The belief of a Triune God, as manifested in Christian Scriptures, is the CENTRAL DOGMA of Christian Theology, without Triune God, Christian Theology doesn't stand.

Trinitarianism is a DOG MA for some Christians, but not all.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Acts 2:11
(both Jews and converts to Judaism Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!"

Off context. How does that apply to your position?

Acts 13:43
When the congregation was dismissed, many of the Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who talked with them and urged them to continue in the grace of God.

Grace of God, converts to Judaism... That sounds like an oxymoron. Again off context, it doesn't help.

1 Corinthians 16:15
You know that the household of Stephanas were the first converts in Achaia, and they have devoted themselves to the service of the saints. I urge you, brothers,

Service of the Saints? And...

John 15:6
If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

I thought you said you didn't believe in the existence of Hell.

 

[Ave Maria]

Yes, they are the same God.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I believe that scripture is divinely inspired. But I also know that scripture has been tampered with by Gnostic Pagans.

...and those were WELL DOCUMENTED and the Church didn't touch them with a ten-foot pole. Scriptures being tampered with IS a contemporaneous claim that doesn't consider the history of Church and Her Sacred Tradition.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Yes, they are the same God.

God is still speaking, and He says in Scriptures that "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Example: Muhammad, who claimed the same God, though rejected Christ.

 

[JudaicChristian]

[/SIZE]Off context. How does that apply to your position?



Grace of God, converts to Judaism... That sounds like an oxymoron. Again off context, it doesn't help.



Service of the Saints? And...




I thought you said you didn't believe in the existence of Hell.

I see no point in speaking to you.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

True Christianity is a sect or branch of Judaism. It is a sin to join any kind of Paganism to God or Christ. Constantine the Great was also the Pagan high priest who proclaimed himself head of the Christian Church. The Judaic Christians lost the war to the Non Judaic Christians. Does that help?

Nonsense. Constantine the Great is a canonized Saint for the purpose he served to Christian Faith. Church became FREE. He was a PAGAN but not a priest. Nor he exerted authority over Church, the early Christian Jurisdictions remained the same with assigned Patriarchs. The only war that was lost was Arius' and similar heretics'. Yet, they were not harmed and after a while they were allowed back to country.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Frankly I'm an Anabaptist, you'll get no argument with me about all the problems I believe Constantine brought the Church.

St. Constantine freed the Church. Just like Luther freed you from the Church.

 

[JudaicChristian]

...and those were WELL DOCUMENTED and the Church didn't touch them with a ten-foot pole. Scriptures being tampered with a contemporaneous claim that doesn't consider the history of Church and Her Sacred Tradition.

No comment.

 

[JudaicChristian]

St. Constantine freed the Church. Just like Luther freed you from the Church.

Constantine the Great was the Pagan high priest until the day he died.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Not all Christians do, as another Christian here has already pointed out to you!

Early Christians did, I tend to follow the original not imitation.

I don't, either: as a man-made document it carries no weight whatever in our theology.

Bible, Quran and your guiding book, are also "man-made" What is your point? The Nicene Creed is a definition where we separated wheat from the chaff.

Anyway, thsi is not a problem: I'm interested in God's acceptance, not yours.

I appreciate that and respect that. God said, I am the Way, the Truth and the Life...

And your ducking my point about Arab Christians' worshipping Allah has been duly noted.

Duly answered...

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

...and some of us are Christians.
tulc(just sayn')

Yes, I saw that, I was going to say NONE, but then saw your name, changed it to majority... Couldn't help saying "what the heck was he thinking?" It is a deeper theological meditation matter actually, if they are the same or not, not a poll subject. God's nature doesn't change by our opinions.