any support for Israel

[Christfan]

A look with an open mind will see how Israel is not the aggressor in the conflict of the Middle East.

Quite the opposite.

 

[dqhall]

Some Israelis have dual US and Israeli citizenship. There are some Christians in Israel. There are both Jewish/Messianic congregations and Arab Christian congregations. They are a minority, but are tolerated more than in Saudi Arabia also supported by the United States. I would not unsupport Israel. Since I do not live there, there is not much I can do for them.

 

[Barney2.0]

Quite the opposite.

In what way everyday I look and see Palestinians and Arabs murdering Jews and oppressing non Muslims.

 

[dreadnought]

I've heard different points of view about Israel and Christianity
but what exactly is a christian's obligation to Israel? This one
preacher John Haggee says it's mandatory, yet I hear other
opinions that focuses on replacement theology. What's going on?

We have the same obligation to Israel as we do towards any other nation. They have the right to exist and defend themselves, and it's our responsibility to respect that right.

 

[Grip Docility]

Wow, really?

Your guess is as good as mine.

Only ONE Knows how it will all really occur.

 

[Hank77]

Well depends today’s Israel is a secular, it has nothing to do with the Biblical kingdom of Israel which now lives on in the hearts of all believers, although the Bible does state Jews will return to their homeland in the end of days as we’ve seen, however many misunderstand this and think that the Jews will reform the ancient kingdom of Israel upon their return however the Bible doesn’t say this. I support Israel and I think all Christians should because it’s one of the only states that treats people equally in the Middle East and Christians and even muslims are treated humanely not like how non Muslims are treated like animals in major Islamic countries. That’s the reason I think we’re obliged to support Israel.

June 2008...Messianic pastor....
The flyers appeared everywhere inside the Jewish settlement of Ariel, on car windshields and telephone poles, and in bus shelters.
. "Beware," it read, "these are the members of the Jewish Missionary Cult. They are baptizing Jews into Christianity." Included was a photo of Pastor David Ortiz and his address.

Someone left a bomb on his door step wrapped as a holiday gift with chocolates. His 15 yr. old son was the victim. Many surgeries had to be done to remove over 100 pieces of shrapnel metal from his body and even his eyes.
Breaking News, Analysis, Politics, Blogs, News Photos, Video, Tech Reviews - TIME.com

Dec. 2014....
Messianic Jews are gaining more acceptance in Israel. Instead of being perceived as threats to the Israelis, due to prejudices going back 2,000 years, they are recognized as friends, fellow citizens, and an active part of Israeli society. In part, the groundwork for this was laid by the benevolence work of groups such as Chosen People Ministries (chosenpeople.com), The Joseph Storehouse (www.visionforisrael.com), the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America's Joseph Project (mjaa.org), and other similar works.
Messianic Judaism Gaining Momentum in Israel

Below are stories and testimonies of what is happening in Israel now 2017 and 2018. Messianic Jewish organizations in Israel are what I believe we should be supporting.

Yonatan was severely traumatised as a result and spent over a year in a military hospital. Eventually, he remembered his dream, and of the man in white saying his sins were forgiven.


He took to the internet to see what this meant – in Hebrew of course. “When I realised they were claiming Yeshua was the Messiah, I asked my army representative to get me a New Testament – every soldier is given a Tenach (Old Testament to Christians). But they only had one in English and, with the help of Google translation, I saw how the New was connected to the Old. And I was stunned by how clearly the Tenach’s Messianic prophecies pointed to Yeshua. I finally realised it was the Lord Himself who had appeared in my dream and saved me! And I asked him to help me, if it was indeed him.


“I lay down and slept for 48 hours! Later I slept for three days. I told the incredulous psychiatrist that Yeshua had healed me – and the test results showed a 98% recovery of the brain. I cried out to Yeshua, ‘I’m yours!’ and was released four months later."


Now healed, restored and forgiven, Yonatan has been baptised in the Mediterranean Sea and is a member of the Tiferet Yeshua Congregation in Tel Aviv.
Passover Miracle: Orthodox Jew Dreams of Jesus

More articles here....
Messianic Jews - Israel Today | Israel News

 

[drjean]

BTW Rev John Hagee is a founder of CUFI Christians United For Israel, an organization highly respected and touted by Netanyahu himself.
Netanyahu: Evangelical Christians are Israel’s best friends | Christians United for Israel

 

[Grip Docility]

BTW Rev John Hagee is a founder of CUFI Christians United For Israel, an organization highly respected and touted by Netanyahu himself.
Netanyahu: Evangelical Christians are Israel’s best friends | Christians United for Israel

Oh. Well. He’s alright, then.

 

[AlexDTX]

I've heard different points of view about Israel and Christianity
but what exactly is a christian's obligation to Israel? This one
preacher John Haggee says it's mandatory, yet I hear other
opinions that focuses on replacement theology. What's going on?

You must like jumping in the briar patch, brer Rabbit.

First, Christ died for all mankind, that includes the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and everyone else. So we are to pray for the salvation of all people.

Second, modern Israel is not biblical Israel. It is a political invention of the Zionists who want to conquer all of the Middle East and to claim the land from the River of Egypt to the Euphrates River in their own strength. As a political invention it also provides anyone who professes Judaism dual citizenship. No matter where they live in the world, and no matter what nationality they were born into, they are considered citizens of Israel and are allowed Aliyah.

Third, there are Jews (Arthur Koestler, for example) who believe that the Ashkenazi Jews are not children of Shem at all, but are from Jaepheth in Khazaria. Many Jews adamantly deny this, of course, but the information does not come from Gentiles but Ashkenazi Jews. There are two streams of Jews today, Ashkenazi; which are central European Jews, and Sephardic; which are Spanish Jews. DNA testing is meaningless since no one has DNA from Judah, the first Jew. There have also been many intermarriages between Sephardim and Ashkinazim, as well as many Jews who have intermarried with all kinds of goyim.

Fourth, Christians naively believe that Jews follow the God of the Old Testament. They do not. They follow the god of rabbinic commentary in the Talmud. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for making the word of God void by their traditions. Those traditions are from the Talmud. Some Jews are even further removed from the God of the Old Testament because they worship the gods of the Kabballah. The only Jews who hold strictly to the Old Testament are the Karaites. They were regarded as heretics by the Jews and were persecuted. As a Christian - it surprises me how many Christians don't understand this - Jesus IS the God of the Old Testament. So, even the Karaites are NOT worshiping the God of the Old Testament. The only Jews who worship the God of the Old Testament are Messianic Jews who are born again.

Lastly, regardless of what I just said, Jesus is coming back to end the global government. His return will be on the Mount of Olives, which according to Zechariah, will split in half thus providing the Jews trapped in Jerusalem an escape from the final battle on the mountain of Meggido, called in Revelations, Armageddon.

So Israel sits in the middle of the briar patch, brer Rabbit. It remains to this day a thorny issue.

 

[Christfan]

We have the same obligation to Israel as we do towards any other nation. They have the right to exist and defend themselves, and it's our responsibility to respect that right.

except when it comes to their enemies like Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc??

 

[dreadnought]

except when it comes to their enemies like Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc??

I don't know why the countries you mentioned don't have the right to exist and defend themselves.

 

[Hank77]

No matter where they live in the world, and no matter what nationality they were born into, they are considered citizens of Israel and are allowed Aliyah.

I read a few yrs. ago that the only ethic Jews who were being kept from Aliyah were Messianic Jews. They had to go individually go to court and fight to be allowed in. I don't know if that has gotten any better or not.

 

[Willing-heart]

Abraham had two sons as revealed to us – Ishmael and Isaac. Both were blessed by God but only one was the son of promise – Isaac. Isaac himself had two twin sons – Esau and Jacob. Even though they were both born to the same mother within minutes to each other, only one of his son was the son of promise – Jacob. Paul is making the point with this example that there are clearly two Israel, which the Lord himself declared when he said to Rebekah (Isaac’s wife), “there are two nations in your womb (Gen. 25:23).” God’s promises from the very beginning are for those who are children of Abraham, according to faith, not according to race.

Again in Galatians 4:21-31, the apostle Paul uses an allegory to make his point. Jesus did the same thing with parables, you just have to figure it out in the end. Paul said Abraham had two sons – Isaac and Ishmael. Isaac was the son of promise, and Ishmael came about (through Haggar, a slave woman) as a result of Abraham and Sarah doubting the promise of God. Paul is pointing out with the allegory that we believers are like Isaac, the children of promise; of the covenant of grace, mercy, forgiveness and of the free woman.

Jesus told the story of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16) – it was not a parable, but a true story. The rich man was a self-centered man, but Lazarus was a poor man who trusted God. When both died, Lazarus went to Abraham’s side and the rich man to Hades. The rich man sincerely thought that his ethnicity, his Jewishness was going to get him to heaven but he was sincerely wrong.

In Hades, the rich man cried out to Abraham (the father of the Jewish people) to save him, but the bible tells us it was sadly too late. This rich man even begged Father Abraham to send Lazarus to warn his family and tell them the truth so they will not end up like him, but Abraham told him that if they do not believe in Moses and the Prophet, they will not believe even if somebody would rise from the dead.

Salvation is based on Mercy and not merits. Only those who would turn to Jesus Christ in repentance and faith will make it to Heaven. Salvation belongs to our God and He offers it to everyone including Jews and Gentiles. The bible is clear, the only way to the Father is through the son – Christ Jesus.

The Only Way.

 

[dude99]

Well depends today’s Israel is a secular, it has nothing to do with the Biblical kingdom of Israel which now lives on in the hearts of all believers, although the Bible does state Jews will return to their homeland in the end of days as we’ve seen, however many misunderstand this and think that the Jews will reform the ancient kingdom of Israel upon their return however the Bible doesn’t say this. I support Israel and I think all Christians should because it’s one of the only states that treats people equally in the Middle East and Christians and even muslims are treated humanely not like how non Muslims are treated like animals in major Islamic countries. That’s the reason I think we’re obliged to support Israel.

If you believe Isreal treats people equality how do you explain this:

Meanwhile in Israel here is how non Jewish minorities are treated:
The events of a recent Friday night protest in Haifa are nothing out of the ordinary if you are a Palestinian citizen of Israel. Nineteen protesters in Haifa, joining the wave of demonstrations around the country, were arrested for precipitating public disturbance, a charge that the Jewish-led demonstrations did not receive. The detainees reported that the police beat them during the interrogations. Seven of the arrested were denied the medical care they needed, while the police postponed their right to legal representation.
Palestinians will never be equal in Israel

 

[AlexDTX]

I read a few yrs. ago that the only ethic Jews who were being kept from Aliyah were Messianic Jews. They had to go individually go to court and fight to be allowed in. I don't know if that has gotten any better or not.

I don't know, either, but I suspect it is still a prohibition.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Any obligation the Christian has towards Israel is a general obligation the Christian has to all nations. To argue for a specific Obligation of loyalty and support (whatever form that might take) to any nation is in some sense I think to destroy the universality of the Gospel to all nations and not just one particular nation. To that extent the Christian also has the obligation to criticize Israel if they think they are doing wrong, like we would of any number of nations.

I also consider the Church to be the true Israel. If God will use the Jewish state for some means he will use the Jewish state. Our loyalty is not to Israel but to Christ who is the true Sovereign and King of Israel (whom Modern Israel does not accept or recognize). Since Christians admit themselves as subjects to Christ and place themselves at his mercy, are we not already part of the true Israel? What is the argument to this position in favour of loyalty or obligation to Israel when Christians already constitute as citizens under Christ's Authority as King?

Personally, amongst all the middle eastern nations I find Israel preferable to the Muslim states.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Jesus told the story of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16) – it was not a parable, but a true story.
.

An unsupported assumption.

 

[LoricaLady]

I don’t care about Haggee, but Support Israel? Support Zion?

Oh, absolutely. Count me in on that.

Jesus is the ONLY true temple of God, but Israel is Israel and Zechariah 14 with Acts 1 are all I need. Joel 3 brings it home!

Oh Lord, Protect our Brothers and Sisters Of the Old Covenant and please let them raise their voice to YOU who comes in the Name Of the Lord!

Oh Lord! Let the Persistent Widow be shamed no longer! Please lift them up to you oh Dear Jesus!

Blow the Horn in Zion! The King of Kings will not keep His promises because of us, but because of HIS GOODNESS and MERCY!

He protects them sometimes. And sometimes He chastises them. Read Deuteronomy 28.

 

[LoricaLady]

Our obligation is to love and pray for any and all Jews, and love and pray for any and all non-Jews; because God is all-loving >

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" Jesus says in Matthew 5:46.

And our Apostle Paul says, "first of all" to pray for all people > 1 Timothy 2:1-4.

So, God desires for us to care for any and all Jews and any and all non-Jews, in His love praying for all. Love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).

I have heard John Haggee preach. I think he is very clear how he believes God wants us Christians to support Israel.

But the Jewish Torah is clear how if the Jews in the time of Moses did not honor and obey God, then God would have Gentile enemies come and kick the Jews out of their promised land and all over the earth. And this is what happened. So, if Jews do not obey and honor God, then according to their own Torah they are not guaranteed safety and security in the land now called Israel. Also, to my knowledge, the present land occupied by Jews is not all the land which was promised by the LORD to them. So, they have not returned to all of what the Bible says is their promised land.

But, like I consider > I can see how the promise of the land does not apply to ones who are disobeying God. So, in case they are not honoring and obeying and openly proclaiming Jesus as the Messiah of Israel . . . they possibly are not guaranteed anything until and if they openly honor and obey the rule of Jesus as their Messiah.

And so, it is not enough to try to help Jews who are not obeying God. They need first to seek Jesus.

Even so > there have been Jews who have proclaimed Jesus who is our Messiah. And we Gentiles who are Christians have joined with the Jews who started the ministry and witness of the Gospel and the New Testament. So, already, we are with the Jews who are Christians. There is no way you can say we have replaced our Apostle Peter and our Apostle Paul who were Jews by background before they trusted in Jesus.

Christianity was started by Jesus who was a Jew in flesh and blood, and who used Peter and Paul who were Jews, to start the life and ministry of Christianity. So, no way have we Christian Gentiles replaced Jesus our Lord and Savior who was Jewish as a Human, and no way have we replaced our Apostles Paul and Peter who were Jews!!!!

But unbelieving Jews were broken away, and we Gentiles in Jesus were then grafted in where the refusing Jews were broken away.

And we in Jesus already own all the promised land >

1 Corinthians 3:21-22.

Therefore, I consider from this scripture > Jews who are saved along with us saved Gentiles already own the whole world, which includes the promised land. And so we need not fool ourselves into believing how worldly people make things look Jerusalem already belongs to us, according to God's word; and if and when the LORD pleases for any of us to go to Jerusalem, have a good time . . . if and howsoever God pleases.

But before you get overly concerned about the present land-based Jerusalem, you might consider how it is written that there is the Jerusalem which is "above" "and which is the mother of us all" > please see Galatians 4:26. And consider all which God's word says in Revelation about the "New Jerusalem" > Revelation 3:12 (Jesus says), and Revelation 21:2-22.

By the way, Galatians 4:26 says the Jerusalem "above" is "free". I consider that the present Jerusalem on this earth is not truly free. In God's love, we are free of fear, for one thing, free of arguing and depending on military force and security.

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

So, we need to first be giving our attention to how we in God's love can be truly free, and know that our "mother" "above" Jerusalem is "free". And no one can be truly free only by use of military and politics and controlling this world's evil people.

And . . . again . . . what does our Apostle Paul say we need to do . . . "first of all"?

1 Timothy 2:1-4.

So, we can expect our Bible knowledgeable and honest ministers to emphasize praying for any and all people . . . and therefore, not only calling great and much attention to the land of Israel. So, yes, of course, if Jews do not bless Abraham by honoring Jesus, then those Jews need our prayer; they do not need land, but they need to trust in Jesus, or else they are not blessing Abraham, and so they need prayer.

But it is good to do good to Jews who do not believe, because Jesus says to love our enemies. And be thankful for the Jews who have honored our Lord and Savior and who started the spreading of the Gospel so we now have heard of Jesus and trusted in Him for our salvation and we have become children of God along with the Jews who started spreading the Gospel. Those Jews who have blessed us with the Gospel are not being replaced by us, but we are family together with our Groom Jesus.

The Torah is not a "Jewish" book. First of all it was compiled by Moses when there were 12 tribes of Israel, certainly not just the Jews. Let's see. In the Torah we have things like the 10 Commandments. Traditions of men teach us that the Mosaic Law, and the Old Testament in general, have been replaced by "a new and better Covenant." You could call that replacement theology.

Look at what Stephan was stoned for in Acts 6.

9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.

10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.

11 Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.

12 And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council,

13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:

14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.

But what did Messiah really say? He said not one jot or tittle of the Law and the Prophets, aka the Torah, would be done away with until Heaven and earth have passed away. He said He did NOT come to do away with the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfill them. For example he certainly did not say that it is now okay to commit adultery or murder, but said that lust is adultery and hatred is murder, in effect. As for the prophets, they very often prophesied about HIM, so why should He want them to be done away with?

Be careful that you know the whole Bible, not just what traditions of men tell you.

 

[derpytia]

I'd say that we should support Israel as a nation but I get extremely concerned when I see their soldiers commit violent crimes (no, not duties, but crimes) against Palestinian people who've broken no laws.

Also, not everyone in Israel worships God. My friend visited there and told me that while they have Jerusalem, which is what some would call the religious epicenter, Israel is just as secular as many other places are.