Any Kosher Christians?

[yimaneili]

As a messianic Jew, I would like to remind everyone that Kosher is just healthier....

There is no doubt about kosher food being more healthy!

 

[Talmidah]

There is no doubt about kosher food being more healthy!

Not necessarily...all kinds of junk food and fatty foods are kosher.

 

[Bon]

Not necessarily...all kinds of junk food and fatty foods are kosher.

I agree....

...we were at a Chanukah festival yesterday and all the food there was kosher........but it was


hot chips, burgers, hot dogs and fairy floss.

Not very healthy at all in my opinion. :o

 

[Bon]

Now if we stuck to a kosher diet without all the modern day processed foods, sugary, salty, chemical additive (man-made) stuff.....

.....now that would be healthy.

Shalom from Bon

 

[yimaneili]

I agree....

...we were at a Chanukah festival yesterday and all the food there was kosher........but it was

We also enjoyed Chanukah... and ate dougnuts... which are actually a Jewish invention, but also not very healthy


but the company was great and so was the food and the drinks.

 

[XCVIII]

The important thing to remember about keeping kosher (btw...to keep kosher means following ALL of the laws: food, clothing, manners, finance, etc.) is that each individual act symbolizes something.



An excellent example is the last supper, where Jesus took the wine and said "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many" (Mark 14:24)

Two meanings can be easily (obviously?) ascribed to this passage.

ONE:

Since blood and life are synonymous ("For the life of a creature is in the blood")...so it's not the blood of Christ, but the life of Christ we are to consume. Hence, when we go to church, we're not supposed to be thinking, "is this wine or is this blood?" (like protestants and catholics LOVE to debate with each other)...we're supposed to be focused on drinking-in the life that Christ has given us through his sacrifice.

TWO:

See I Corinthians 11:26-29 "For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes. Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly." *Phew*

As per Exodus 24, the blood of the covenant was sprinkled on the Israelites when they agreed to abide by God's laws, so by taking communion, we are agreeing to be bound by God's laws.




That's just one example.

The important piece is not the symbol, but what it represents, and the constant act of remembrance through the common actions in our daily lives.

SOOOO....the question should not be "will I keep kosher" but rather what kosher means to you. If you believe that the passages telling Paul that the "clean" can mix with the "unclean" (which Paul undeniably intenerated as Jews and gentiles) supercede the earlier laws presented to Noah and Abraham, then you are keeping kosher by eating a cheeseburger...IF each time you eat that cheeseburger, you meditate on it as a symbol of God's forgiveness and acceptance of all mankind...and think about how you can apply that knowledge to your life.

~Crystal Elizabeth

 

[visionary]

When it comes to your supplements, there is mischief afoot to try and dictate your access to supplements.

Tell your U.S. senators and congressmen to support U.S. Rep. Ron Paul's H.R. 1146, the American Sovereignty Restoration Act.

http://www.mercola.com/2004/oct/13/...s_minerals2.htm

 

[Gumdrop71]

I avoid
Grains(corn, bread, cereal, rice, sugars, etc...)
"Man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY word of God."
============================================
It appears you are taking a verse out of context. I doubt Jesus meant don't eat bread in that particular passage.

 

[visionary]

ATTN: HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONALS PRACTICING ALTERNATIVE, NUTRITIONAL, NATURAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL MEDICINE

CODEX ALIMENTARIUS COMMISSION

The World Trade Organization (WTO) is poised to take away the right of healthcare professionals practicing alternative, nutrition, natural or environmental healthcare.

The next vote to pass for "harmonization" is at the end of May.........Since we participate with WTO, we may be forced to accept this anyway even if we DON'T vote for "harmonization". WE HAVE TO GET OUT OF THE WTO......here's the cliff notes:

CODEX Phase I.....No herbs. No vitamins (Zinc in Europe now is $54/bottle!). No energetic therapies (homeopathy, acupuncture, etc). If passed, having vitamins will be a felony.

CODEX Phase II......levels of hormones and pesiticides will be increased. All meat will be radiated.

CODEX Phase III......Only Genetic modified seeds will be sold....to only be activated by Monsanto pesticides.

DSHEA won't protect us....we need ONE MILLION faxes sent to congress to stop this.....this purely motived by profit and greed. Please do what you do what to look at this and move this out to your lists. http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/

It this passes, it could be illegal to practice integrative medicine within 3 yrs.

For more information, go to www.nmaseminars.com and click on "ATTN: RE: CODEX LETTER FROM RIMA LAIBOW, MD." You will find the file for download on the front page of the website.

Thank you!
Sherri Tenpenny, DO
http://www.novaccines.com/

 

[Talie]

If passed, having vitamins will be a felony.

this is not true

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/vitamins.asp

Claim: American consumers risk losing their right to purchase and use vitamins, minerals, and dietary supplements.

Status: Multiple — see below:

• In June 2005 the USA will be forced to accept Codex regulation of vitamins, minerals, and dietary supplements: False.
• Bills proposing the regulation of dietary supplements are currently before Congress: Not any more.

 

[dov_ben-david]

1 Timothy 4
1BUT THE [Holy] Spirit distinctly and expressly declares that in latter times some will turn away from the faith, giving attention to deluding and seducing spirits and doctrines that demons teach,
2Through the hypocrisy and pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared (cauterized),
3Who forbid people to marry and [teach them] to abstain from [certain kinds of] foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and have [an increasingly clear] knowledge of the truth.
4For everything God has created is good, and nothing is to be thrown away or refused if it is received with thanksgiving.
5For it is hallowed and consecrated by the Word of God and by prayer.

I will easily refute how I assume you are interperting these verses (since you do not expound on these verses we are only left to assume what your point is!).

First of all, in verse 3, "certain kinds of" are not in the original Greek. It says "and to abstain from foods which God created to be recieved with thanksgiving by those who believe..." What foods did God create to be recieved and eaten? Check Lev 11 for the answer...

Verse 4, Everything God created is good, but not everything is meant for food.

Verse 5 is the crux of the whole passage: "For it is hallowed and consecrated by the Word of God and by prayer." What is hallowed by the Word of God? Once again check Lev 11...

People need to stop shredding verses from their context to support their doctrines.

Thank you everyone for allowing me to express my opinions. God bless all!

Shalom (A Hebrew greeting and farewell meaning "Peace"),
Dov

 

[ImSoBlessed]

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

 

[Steve Petersen]

I'm slowly but surely gonna start eating kosher.


Anyone else fall in this category?

Why in the world would you want to obey God?

Biblical kosher. I often buy kosher food at a local Kosher grocery. It is sort of left-handed charity. Trying to pay back some of the debt 'my fathers' have laid on me!

 

[Steve Petersen]

Since mad cow, kosher beef might be worth it - Hebrew National hot dogs, anyway.

Oh, baby!!

 

[Steve Petersen]

Should Gentile Christians Eat Kosher Food?

Introduction

For a few weeks I seriously considered this question and arrived at some unexpected conclusions: it dawned on me that the topic of blood is a red thread right through the Bible starting in Genesis and finishing in Revelation. It seemed to me, that it might be wise to abstain from blood and along with that also keep to the biblical kosher categories of food. (See my contribution Nov 30, # 29 on this forum) But it hit me, that drawing these conclusions would place me outside of mainstream Christianity. In my situation such a decision should be considered very carefully and couldn’t be taken lightly.


The Council of Jerusalem

I decided to do another careful in depth study especially of Acts 15 (Council of Jerusalem) which is the main text in the NT that takes up this topic. Four things were agreed on that Gentiles Christians should abstain from:

· Food sacrificed to idols

· Blood

· Meat of strangled animals (because it still has blood in it)

· Sexual immorality

How did the Council in Jerusalem arrive at the above conclusions?
And why have the first three prohibitions been almost virtually ignored by the Gentile church?


Two Different Opinions

At the council two very different opinions clashed. Let’s look at both positions:

· The ‘Circumcision Group’ were messianic Jews who insisted that circumcision was necessary for gentiles to be saved. Their voice was also represented in the circle of the early church leadership in Jerusalem. (Acts 15:4 they {that is Paul and Barnabas}, were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them. 5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses." ) The early church leadership in Jerusalem was exclusively messianic Jewish. For them the phenomenon of pagans becoming believers of the Messiah was not fully theologically digested yet. To the early church in Jerusalem, the topic of Gentiles turning to Christ probably wasn’t very central anyway and not many of them had anything to do with Gentiles. Most would probably never have conceived that a couple of centuries later the overwhelming majority of Christians would come from a gentile background.

· Paul was a genuine apostle, called by God to reach the Gentiles. His theology was shaped through daily encounters with them and carefully thought through. Even though Paul was of impeccable pharisaic background, the conclusions he drew were very different from that stance of the ‘Circumcision Group’. He had strong words for the ‘Circumcision Group’ (Phil 3: 2 Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh) and insisted, that the gentiles Christians didn’t need to keep to the letter of the law but keep the law by the Spirit (Rom 7:6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.) Paul insisted that salvation is alone through faith in Jesus Christ (without the need for Gentile believers to be circumcised and become Messianic Jews first in order to be saved).


A Compromise

The Council’s prohibitions seem to strike a compromise between the two positions. It doesn’t mention Paul’s central issue of circumcision at all! However it is implied that gentile Christians don’t need to get circumcised since they are only supposed to keep the four mentioned prohibitions. By asking gentile Christians to abstain from meat with blood in it, it also strikes a compromise with the ‘Circumcision Group’ since the first gentile Christians were all mixing with messianic Jews. The gentile Christians (V 23 in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia) should adjust to the sensitive feelings of the Messianic Jewish believers to be able to stay in fellowship with each other!

The events of the Council in Jerusalem are recounted from Paul’s perspective in Galatians 2. Paul is obviously not impressed by what happened in Jerusalem since the circumcision issue wasn’t even mentioned!

1 Fourteen years later I went up again to Jerusalem, this time with Barnabas. I took Titus along also. 2 I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. But I did this privately to those who seemed to be leaders, for fear that I was running or had run my race in vain. 3 Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. 4 This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. 5 We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might remain with you. 6 As for those who seemed to be important— whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not judge by external appearance— those men added nothing to my message. 7 On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as Peter had been to the Jews. 8 For God, who was at work in the ministry of Peter as an apostle to the Jews, was also at work in my ministry as an apostle to the Gentiles. 9 James, Peter and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews. 10 All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.

Here some main points:

· He first talked to the leaders privately

· Some messianic Jews from the ‘Circumcision Group’ had ‘infiltrated them to spy on their freedom

· He is disappointed about the leaders in Jerusalem (those who seemed to be important…. reputed to be pillars)

· He doesn’t mention the four fold prohibition at all

To Paul, the food prohibitions were clearly a compromise but not a biblical and theological statement.


Example: Food Offered to Idols

According to the Council of Jerusalem, gentile Christians were not allowed to eat food offered to idols. But look at 1 Cor 8 where Paul talks about this topic:

7 But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

Paul's statement here stands in direct conflict with the letter from the Council of Jerusalem. How can this be? Obviously for Paul, the edict from Jerusalem was a compromise born out of a policy of accomodation and does not reflect theological eternal truth!

The same issue pops up in Rom 14 (where conscientious Christians avoid eating meat, because it could have been offered to idols or still have blood in it) 2 One man’s faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.

To Paul, gentile Christians are free to eat food offered to idols as long as their conscience is free. I am a missionary in Taiwan. Here we are often confronted with the issue of food offered to idols. This kind of food here in Taiwan has certainly still blood in it and can be a pig or any other ‘unclean’ animal. To Paul this is not issue!


Conclusion

Praise God for the freedom that we have in Christ! There is a lot we can learn from messianic Jews - and we should! But we have to beware to leave the freedom that Christ has brought or talk others into leaving this freedom. As gentile Christians we are not required to eat kosher food. We are even free to eat meat that has still blood in it or that has been offered to idols (as long as our conscience is free and we don’t become a stumbling block to others). Personally I prefer to avoid eating meat with blood in it (out of respect for the blood of Christ), but I will feel free to eat anything set before me.

As a Christian we should be sensitive to how the Holy Spirit leads us to apply our Christian faith in our cultural context. We are to worship Christ in the beauty of His creative diversity with Christ at the center. Christ doesn't call us into a cultural uniformity (i.e. everybody takes on messianic Jewish characteristics) but He calls us into a spiritual unity!

Enjoy the end vision of Revelation 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."

Jesus appeared to John in Revelation (the last book written in the NT) and condemned eating food sacrificed to idols thirty years after Paul was beheaded!!

Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

 

[Dukeofpain]

truth about kosher slaughter [removed link]

 

[SpeakNow]

There is no need to eat kosher at all. In acts 10:9-18 peter is hungry but has no food to eat. The lord appears to him in a vision and shows him all the beasts of the earth clean and "unclean", The lord says to peter, "Rise Peter kill and eat" Peters response to this was, "No Lord it cannot be so, for i have never eaten anything clean or uncommon" then Jesus says, "you must not call common what God has cleansed". So you see we are free to eat what we like, in good control of course.

Keep reading. Peter's vision was to show him that there is no unclean PERSON, it wasn't about being able to eat whatever he wanted from then on. The unclean meats are still unclean.

 

[SpeakNow]

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Those verses are talking about fasting or only eating herbs on certain days trying to please the Lord. The unclean meats are still unclean.

 

[RadG]

I'm slowly but surely gonna start eating kosher.


Anyone else fall in this category?

I have just been considering this, mostly for health reasons, along the lines of also reducing the processed and sugary stuff that is unhealthy and unnatural in my diet. I consider it like the whole debate on drinking. Some people may not feel bad about it, but others may have a conviction that they shouldn't.

One thing I don't understand though are these people stating they have to give up seafood. There are a lot of fish that have fins and scales, that are commonly consumed.

The health reasons are not from a fat perspective but a toxin perspective. Pigs, unclean birds, shrimp are all to some extent the garbage collectors, and most seem to have inefficient ways of expelling their waste. Biologically pigs digestive systme is close to ours and we have problems of expelling waste proplerly at times. The toxins are what most mean by kosher being healthy. Just google on kosher eating or probably kosher health

 

[wrgmc1]

Many Jews don't truly understand kashrut muchless us Christians. The rabbis have added some to the laws. Example chickens don't give milk and as such could be mixed with dairy. However, the rabbis decided that this would lead to also mixing beef with dairy and they advise against it. Also cold meat does not contaminate a plate or any others surface. Therefore it is not necessary to have 2 refrigerators.
I keep kosher at home and find it easy not to eat traif and buy kosher certified food. On the other hand there are few restraunts near that have kosher certification so I just don't order pork or shelfish or catfish.
Maybe it is not necessary to be kosher. Do get a sense of satifaction from the self denial. And then there is the story of Jesus destroying the great herd of hogs. It appears in 3 of the 4 gospels. Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Don't think Jesus thought much of people who ate pork.