Anti-Zionism & Christianity

KrimsonDraegon

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I wish first to offer an apology. I believe this is where this thread should go; however, I am most likely wrong. If a moderator or administrator would be so kind to relocate it, if applicable, I would be most grateful.

A cornerstone of Judaism is the hope of allyah, which, in Hebrew means "ascension", is the belief in religious Jewish return to the State of Israel.

For as long as I can remember I have been an avid Zionist - the Jewish return to Israel is a great and beautiful thing that should be supported. Yet... doubt arises within me.

I was born and raised in a Southern Baptist home and found salvation early. However, later I found my own interpretation of the Almighty's Words and found myself studying for conversion to Judaism. While studying I learn quite a lot, but three things in particular are relevant here - the three cardinal sins of Judaism. For those who do not know they are, in order of worst to least, renouncing one's faith, sexual misconduct, and murder. To be honest, one cannot hope for salvation from these; yet, many Orthodox Rabbis maintain that a life of devout and pious behavior may atone for them. Back to this in a moment...

Whenever God wanted the men and women of Israel to reside in Israel He not only instructed them to do so, but He also made it short of a paradise for them. The land would flourish, buildings would go up with ease, etc. When He wanted them to leave He would turn the land against them, making a hostile desert and filling the waters with poisonous plants and thorns and such.

Today we see Israel as a thriving nation. While I studied conversion I learned of the magnificient hydroponic orchards and the techniques used to transplant animals and people where the land would not have them. A testament to man! But a spit in the eye to the Almighty?

God says when the religious Jews may have their land back, not the Jews. Yet we see them working against God's tried and true methods of keeping people out with our wonderous, miraculous technology.

Further, the constant war there is causing many religious Jews to break one of their cardinal sins - murder. All Israeli citizens must serve in their armies and, if they see combat, will cause them to murder other human beings. Usually this is of little concern, to be harsh, because it can be a commandment to protect the land of God. Was it not God who told the Jews to eradicate the Amalekites?

But now, with the people in a place God may not want them, performing a deed which might tarnish their soul irrepairably - can we honestly say this is in the best interest of religious Jews?

I still do not know how I stand now. I still support an independant Jewish nation with the right to defend itself and it's people, but not if God says no.

And you. Where do you stand? Traditionally Christians support Israel, do you? Why?

There is nothing we can really do about this situation, but it would be nice to hear some of your opinions. :D

~ Shaeykh
 

Brak

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Hi,

When I was 23 I believed all the same things you did, but unlike you I was far from wavering. There was no way any Christian was going to convince me Israel was anything but a miraculous nation of God. It took JEWS to set me straight. And that they did....

The best advice I can give is, get to know other peoples and other religions. Don't be afraid to step inside a mosque and ask what they think. Just don't be taken by surprise if they get really defensive at first. The problem is that your belief system is based primarily on one side of the story. Even if that one side is supposedly "Christian", you need to get them all. I never got the other side of the story--that's where I was dead wrong.
 
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KrimsonDraegon

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Hi,

When I was 23 I believed all the same things you did, but unlike you I was far from wavering. There was no way any Christian was going to convince me Israel was anything but a miraculous nation of God. It took JEWS to set me straight. And that they did....

The best advice I can give is, get to know other peoples and other religions. Don't be afraid to step inside a mosque and ask what they think. Just don't be taken by surprise if they get really defensive at first. The problem is that your belief system is based primarily on one side of the story. Even if that one side is supposedly "Christian", you need to get them all. I never got the other side of the story--that's where I was dead wrong.

Peace upon you,

I think you mistook the point of my thread... I am not asking for advice, I was querying your opinion. As for waivering - on Christianity, not really. One day it was on, the next it was off. I have never waivered from my Father, however.

As for getting to know other people and other religions. I thank you for the advice, but I have been to mosques and was a member of a synagogue for a while. My belief system is not one-sided, if I may say so. Part of the issue with defining my system of belief is that I have heavily mixed Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and some other ideologies to fit my own interpretation of God's Word.

I am sorry if I sound defensive, I am not trying to be. I simply want to set out on the right foot here.

Peace,

~ Shaeykh
 
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Frogster

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Peace upon you,

I think you mistook the point of my thread... I am not asking for advice, I was querying your opinion. As for waivering - on Christianity, not really. One day it was on, the next it was off. I have never waivered from my Father, however.

As for getting to know other people and other religions. I thank you for the advice, but I have been to mosques and was a member of a synagogue for a while. My belief system is not one-sided, if I may say so. Part of the issue with defining my system of belief is that I have heavily mixed Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and some other ideologies to fit my own interpretation of God's Word.

I am sorry if I sound defensive, I am not trying to be. I simply want to set out on the right foot here.

Peace,

~ Shaeykh

The glorious faith and the simple Gospel of the cross, as a son of Abraham, is all you need.

Look how the Galatians did, simple faith, and knowing the cross was all they needed, til they got distracted with legalism, religion.

First..


3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.



Then...

2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?


Then the downfall..

3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Peace upon you,

I think you mistook the point of my thread... I am not asking for advice, I was querying your opinion. As for waivering - on Christianity, not really. One day it was on, the next it was off. I have never waivered from my Father, however.

As for getting to know other people and other religions. I thank you for the advice, but I have been to mosques and was a member of a synagogue for a while. My belief system is not one-sided, if I may say so. Part of the issue with defining my system of belief is that I have heavily mixed Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and some other ideologies to fit my own interpretation of God's Word.

I am sorry if I sound defensive, I am not trying to be. I simply want to set out on the right foot here.

Peace,

~ Shaeykh
I can see why that would be an issue
 
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SeraphimSarov

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The issue of Israel is a secular concern. The new Israel is the Church. The country called Israel is a nation-state that has nothing to do with God. It is a shame that there is such conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians, but as an American Orthodox Christian, it really is none of my business.

That's my take...
 
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Frogster

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The issue of Israel is a secular concern. The new Israel is the Church. The country called Israel is a nation-state that has nothing to do with God. It is a shame that there is such conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians, but as an American Orthodox Christian, it really is none of my business.

That's my take...

I hear ya..too much israel worship in our churches. Israel has nothing to do with a spiritual body.
 
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Brak

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I hear ya..too much israel worship in our churches.


Even in the synagogues. The hope of aliyah is NOT a cornerstone of Judaism; it's a cornerstone of Zionism. They're not the same thing. When Zionism came along in the early 1900's, it was regarded a heresy by Jews. There were no aspirations to "return" to Israel; let alone was it regarded an "ascension". If you really want to ascend, go to Nepal.
 
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