Another topic on Lust / Sexual Desire

[Blueforest]

This is a personal - and serious - topic for me, so here goes. I'm well aware of Matt. 5:28, which says that if you look at a woman to lust for her, then you have already sinned (i.e. committed adultery) with her in your heart. Now, at first glance, we could say this only applies to one or more parties being married, which is one possible explanation. However, it is not the norm.

Normally, people infer this refers to lusting (or desiring, since they mean essentially the same thing) after simply someone of the opposite sex, period. But the problem with this view is that it is bondage, it is torment. It is basically saying, "It's a sin to be attracted to someone" or maybe better said, "It's a sin to lust after or desire to be with someone." That's kind of a problem for me, as a human, and as a male.

You see, I'm a normal, heterosexual male with a perfectly normal, healthy and strong libido. Yet, according to this verse, which is evidently what Jesus said here, I'm sinning simply because I am attracted to - and / or desire to be with - someone of the opposite gender. Some may say, "Well, we all sin, and it's good because it points you to Jesus", but the problem with that view is, what do you do once you accept Christ and follow the path Jesus laid out? You're still gonna sin! It is inescapable. No human - rather, no healthy, red-blooded, normal heterosexual male who is single and actually 'desires' (oops, there's that WORD again) to be in a relationship with an attractive female - could possibly follow and obey this teaching! It is simply not possible.

I am actually starting to rethink my entire 'Christian walk' over this verse. I cannot see how, short of physical and bodily mutilation, I could possibly adhere to this verse. And I don't know of any other males who are capable either.

It's one thing to say don't commit adultery, it's another to say don't desire females, period. One is attainable, the other... is a bar that is set too high. Why God demands perfection of imperfect people is something I do not get.

Note: The Greek word for lust in Matt 5:28 is 'Epithumeo' which simply means to long for or desire something. It does not necessarily imply a "bad" longing in itself, hence one cannot separate "lust" from "sexual desire" - they mean the same thing, in this verse! Jesus Himself used this word (according to Luke anyway) in Luke 22:15, when referring to His desire to eat the passover meal with his friends.

So much for all lust being bad, huh? (Except for in this specific case, since desire itself for a woman IS considered sin.)

Since this is an advice forum, I would like to know how I am supposed to overcome this natural, biological desire / lust, if it is even possible? And if it is not, then should I leave Christianity behind once and for all, since I cannot possibly obey it? Basically, what am I supposed to do?

 

[Rhombus]

Hello friend. I don't believe there is anything wrong with acknowledging that someone else is attractive. What is wrong is to desire to be with that person sexually or to long after them. You made the point that you're a red blooded male and you desire to be with an attractive woman. More so than this, shouldn't you desire to be with a Godly woman who loves Christ with all of her heart, soul, and strength? I do honestly believe that through the help of God you can get over lusting after women. And again, in the beginning of my post I made it a point to say there is a difference between acknowledging or seeing someone as attractive, and wanting them or desiring to be with them sexually (or even in a relationship [i.e. I want to date that person because they're hot!]). Although attraction is one important criteria, it should not be the foundation; as stated before. So, pray to God for strength. Ask Him for dove's eyes. He WILL help you and it is NOT impossible.

 

[Blueforest]

Hello friend. I don't believe there is anything wrong with acknowledging that someone else is attractive. What is wrong is to desire to be with that person sexually or to long after them. You made the point that you're a red blooded male and you desire to be with an attractive woman. More so than this, shouldn't you desire to be with a Godly woman who loves Christ with all of her heart, soul, and strength? I do honestly believe that through the help of God you can get over lusting after women. And again, in the beginning of my post I made it a point to say there is a difference between acknowledging or seeing someone as attractive, and wanting them or desiring to be with them sexually (or even in a relationship [i.e. I want to date that person because they're hot!]). Although attraction is one important criteria, it should not be the foundation; as stated before. So, pray to God for strength. Ask Him for dove's eyes. He WILL help you and it is NOT impossible.

I don't understand why humans were designed one way, then told it is wrong to feel a certain way. It makes no sense and only lends credence to the Gnostic view of "matter - evil, spirit - good" mentality. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

What are dove's eyes? I'm not familiar with that term.

In the end, I do not think this is possible, nor do I even comprehend why God would make man one way, then be so harsh and unforgiving the next.

 

[Quasicentennial]

When I accepted Jesus at 17 years old, his wisdom protects me from wrongful actions such as committing adultery - which is real inter-action between two or more persons. Sexual fantasies are non-realities that are active only in imagination - it's only when I turn those fantasies into reality then trouble happens. Deception from Satan is still there like a television broadcast signal that keeps buzzing in my head forever, trying to penetrate the protective shield of Jesus within me. Just wish Jesus would return now,to transform my earthly-born mind and body to the Christ-like glorious mind and body like himself where sexual desire is transformed to pure joyous spirit forever experienced by him. Because sin has been passed on from generation to generation since Adam and Eve were born, sexual desire can be controlled with Jesus "at the wheel" of your life. Christian marriage is a choice and allows new-born future Christian missionaries to continue spreading the gospel to fight this never-ending battle of sinful deception from Satan. Marriage is a there's no other choice to pro-create because God had closed the business on creating adult couples from dust.:*:.

 

[LWB]

I think the point of that teaching was aimed at Pharisees, who believed they could attain righteousness by an external observance of the law. Christ's teaching implies that the law extends even to claim a person's heart.

I believe in a forward escape Blueforest. Better for you to discover the absolute desolation of carnal desire than forever resist. The son that awakened to find himself in the pig stye was in a far better position than the one that remained faithful.

 

[Rhombus]

I don't understand why humans were designed one way, then told it is wrong to feel a certain way. It makes no sense and only lends credence to the Gnostic view of "matter - evil, spirit - good" mentality. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

What are dove's eyes? I'm not familiar with that term.

In the end, I do not think this is possible, nor do I even comprehend why God would make man one way, then be so harsh and unforgiving the next.

Friend, God didn't create you to lust after every woman that you see. God created you good, and it's only after the fall of man through Adam that we changed and acquired a sinful nature. When you are saved God empowers you, through His holy spirit, to resist sin and temptation that man has inevitably become a slave to due to the lack of God in their lives. So it isn't that God created you this way and rebukes you for being who you are - He created you ABOVE this, and He expects you to step into your true identity and to be transformed through His love, mercy, and grace. Now, attraction to the opposite sex IS natural, and God expects you to find one woman (your wife) and to act out on that attraction and to love her greatly.

 

[Blueforest]

Friend, God didn't create you to lust after every woman that you see. God created you good, and it's only after the fall of man through Adam that we changed and acquired a sinful nature. When you are saved God empowers you, through His holy spirit, to resist sin and temptation that man has inevitably become a slave to due to the lack of God in their lives. So it isn't that God created you this way and rebukes you for being who you are - He created you ABOVE this, and He expects you to step into your true identity and to be transformed through His love, mercy, and grace. Now, attraction to the opposite sex IS natural, and God expects you to find one woman (your wife) and to act out on that attraction and to love her greatly.

I never realized sex was so bad. I'd rather be dead than walk around in torment like this, to be honest.

How is attraction normal? I have already proven, with the above verse, that it is not. You seem to have reinforced my view here, as well (in that God did not create humans to lust or desire one another). I think God would have done better to have made humans all one gender and have them reproduce asexually, rather than like other mammals. It would have saved us a heck of a lot of trouble, don't you think?

 

[Blueforest]

If people followed the teachings you guys are advocating, the human race would have died off long ago. It reminds me of a man sitting in front of a pile of food, refusing to eat because he was told not to. So the man starves himself to death and perishes. Is there a big difference? Both are biological drives, in fact, the libido is stronger than the drive for food, as a rule - both things being equal that is.

 

[Rhombus]

There's nothing wrong with sex as long as it isn't outside of marriage. I don't know if you've ever had sex outside of marriage, but many people who do have sex outside of marriage eventually regret it. They form relationships in which they invest a lot of time, energy, and emotion into, only to have them fall apart. Sex is something to be shared between a husband and a wife. A marriage isn't complete until the couple actually consummates the marriage, which means have sex together. When you have sex there is a joining process in which you become one flesh. This is why when people have sex with each other and break up, they become so hurt; they've literally entered into that joining process and broken it apart, essentially destroying a piece of themselves. So, again, nothing wrong with sex, as long as it's done between a couple that is married to each other. Marriage should be a relationship in which God is glorified above all else, and where the couple lives to serve God, and to love eachother with the love God has bestowed upon them.

 

[Blueforest]

Yes but how is one supposed to "enjoy sex or whatever" with their spouse when one is specifically told that it is WRONG to desire a relationship with them in the first place? Where I live, we don't do arranged marriages. In fact, I think the only country that still practices that is India (but I could be wrong)...

A single man, or woman, cannot establish a marriage without first being engaged and / or dating.

I am too carnal (i.e. natural, not sinful, in my view anyway) to follow Christ. We're told to emulate Jesus, who never married and transcended His sexuality. It is an obstacle to overcome, for the believer and follower of Jesus - we are to follow in His footsteps. Yet, I am unable to do so at this time. Maybe, should I become an old man with a waned sex drive, a family and a great wife, then I can transcend my humanity. But for now, I cannot see this as a realistic path for me to take.

 

[Rhombus]

I've never condemned dating. And there's no condemnation of desiring a RELATIONSHIP with someone.

Here's how it works out in my opinion: "Oh, wow, that girl is beautiful. Oh, wow, she's a Christian as well. I should get to know her" *Guy gets to know the girl* "Oh, wow, she's serious about her walk with God. Oh, wow, I find myself more attracted to her now, in both a physical and spiritual sense. I should pray about this." *Guy prays about it* "Oh, wow, it seems this could really work out. I should let her know that I like her, and that I desire to be in a relationship with her" *Guy tells girl, girl decides she will pray as well, both of them, after much prayer and getting to know eachother [Could be considered dating], decide they want to be in a serious relationship which leads to marriage* ... *Couple gets married, or breaks up, but with no fornication in the relationship, therefore, with little regrets of their relationship*.

To me, that's pretty simple, but not everyone may agree with it.

So, a single man and woman can be INTERESTED in eachother, in both a physical and spiritual sense. The goal of their relationship, if they enter into one (above friendship) should be marriage (Can or is this person really my spouse?). Once they're married, they can have all the sex they want. The problem is that if they lust after eachother before marriage, they're doing themselves and God an injustice.

To me, it becomes a problem when someone SEXUALLY desires someone. Wanting to sleep with them, picturing them naked, picturing sexual acts between the two, and so on, because those acts are reserved for marriage. But, self admittedly, I would have to study the Greek word of "lust" (just as you did in your first post) to be absolutely certain. But, as for now, I do truly believe that there's nothing wrong with noting beauty, and that it only becomes wrong when it becomes a sexual perverse desire. Perverse only because it's outside of marriage and therefore results in adultery at heart, or fornication.

I'm in a relationship. I think my girlfriend is absolutely beautiful. I'm going to marry her soon, hopefully. But I don't lust after her sexually. I know I'll be able to be with her, in that sense, when I'm married.

You CAN overcome lusting after other people and committing adultery with them in your heart. It IS possible. Jesus sets the standard of the law on a HIGHER level. But, with the Holy Spirit working through you, you CAN overcome this issue. Blessings.

 

[Blueforest]

I feel like, maybe Christianity isn't right for me, because I have to suppress who I am and the way God... I mean, satan (?) made me. I'd rather not walk around all day feeling guilty, badly about myself and being ashamed I like girls.

I find it strange how some Christians are so anti-gay when the actual subject in this verse is anti-desire itself; whether directed towards men or women, it's wrong. Now I know how gay people feel...

 

[sam7]

Yes but how is one supposed to "enjoy sex or whatever" with their spouse when one is specifically told that it is WRONG to desire a relationship with them in the first place? Where I live, we don't do arranged marriages. In fact, I think the only country that still practices that is India (but I could be wrong)...

A single man, or woman, cannot establish a marriage without first being engaged and / or dating.

Desiring a relationship isn't wrong. Also without being attracted to the opposite sex there would be no procreation and mankind would have died out long time ago. What's considered a sin is entertaining fantasies for example if you are attracted to a woman and then think about having sex with her. Such thoughts should be tried to be suppressed which is most likely also not that easy. I know someone who's married and he also struggled a lot with lust and I think he still does as far as I know. I guess if you have a strong libido you have it harder than others who have a weak libido.
My personal opinion is that if I had to choose between masturbating and trying to live abstinent and then being even more tempted to look after women or watch inappropriate content I'd rather touch and try not to think of any women which is also not that easy but it's possible at least for some. But there are also christians who say you also mustn't touch which then again increases the chance of totally messing it up and then ending up watching inappropriate content & masturbating on top of it.

I feel like, maybe Christianity isn't right for me, because I have to suppress who I am and the way God... I mean, satan (?) made me. I'd rather not walk around all day feeling guilty, badly about myself and being ashamed I like girls.

Don't do that. That would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We all struggle with sins and some struggle more in some areas than others. That doesn't mean you have to give up being a christian. And you also seem to have a false understanding of what is sin. Being attracted is not a sin. I'm sure all men struggle with sexual thoughts so if you couldn't be a christian if you struggle with sexual thoughts then there wouldn't be many christians. Also be careful who you go to for advice because wrong advice could make you feel even more helpless.

 

[Rhombus]

Like one of the previous posters said, we all have sin.

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

The point I'm trying to make here, friend, is that there's nothing wrong with being attracted to someone, and there's nothing wrong with desiring a relationship. What is wrong is having sexual fantasies towards that person. You'll be able to have sex with your wife, and that person is simply not your wife.

Ask God to help you. He seriously can. If this is a huge issue in your life, continuously cry out to God and ask Him to help you change. Pour out your heart to Him about your struggles. Ask Him for a wife who you can have fellowship with, serve the Lord with, and love. He's a faithful God, He will help you, you are more than a conqueror in Christ Jesus.

 

[Blueforest]

I've never condemned dating. And there's no condemnation of desiring a RELATIONSHIP with someone.

Here's how it works out in my opinion: "Oh, wow, that girl is beautiful. Oh, wow, she's a Christian as well. I should get to know her" *Guy gets to know the girl* "Oh, wow, she's serious about her walk with God. Oh, wow, I find myself more attracted to her now, in both a physical and spiritual sense. I should pray about this." *Guy prays about it* "Oh, wow, it seems this could really work out. I should let her know that I like her, and that I desire to be in a relationship with her" *Guy tells girl, girl decides she will pray as well, both of them, after much prayer and getting to know eachother [Could be considered dating], decide they want to be in a serious relationship which leads to marriage* ... *Couple gets married, or breaks up, but with no fornication in the relationship, therefore, with little regrets of their relationship*.

To me, that's pretty simple, but not everyone may agree with it.

So, a single man and woman can be INTERESTED in eachother, in both a physical and spiritual sense. The goal of their relationship, if they enter into one (above friendship) should be marriage (Can or is this person really my spouse?). Once they're married, they can have all the sex they want. The problem is that if they lust after eachother before marriage, they're doing themselves and God an injustice.

To me, it becomes a problem when someone SEXUALLY desires someone. Wanting to sleep with them, picturing them naked, picturing sexual acts between the two, and so on, because those acts are reserved for marriage. But, self admittedly, I would have to study the Greek word of "lust" (just as you did in your first post) to be absolutely certain. But, as for now, I do truly believe that there's nothing wrong with noting beauty, and that it only becomes wrong when it becomes a sexual perverse desire. Perverse only because it's outside of marriage and therefore results in adultery at heart, or fornication.

I'm in a relationship. I think my girlfriend is absolutely beautiful. I'm going to marry her soon, hopefully. But I don't lust after her sexually. I know I'll be able to be with her, in that sense, when I'm married.

You CAN overcome lusting after other people and committing adultery with them in your heart. It IS possible. Jesus sets the standard of the law on a HIGHER level. But, with the Holy Spirit working through you, you CAN overcome this issue. Blessings.

Well the problem is, you're adding in your own meaning. If the word was meant to mean "fornication" (which is a whole other topic) then why is the word "adultery" used here? It makes no sense.

If that model works for you, great. Glad to hear it.

But the impression I got from you, as I mentioned also in my first post, is that the very desire for someone is wrong. Basically, you are advocating a male suppresses and ignores and hides his sexuality until he has a piece of paper that gives him license to fornicate (except you don't call it that now that you have the almighty "marriage license"). That's a fine view, but it causes problems for me, and probably other males too.

The impression I am getting is that one should not be sexually attracted to anyone until marriage. The problem is, that doesn't work in real life. It's not realistic. It's frankly, a little silly to me anyway, and I cannot see myself even considering dating someone that I do not find sexually attractive. I don't care how nice she is, or how many hours she reads her bible or how spiritual she is, or even how funny, intelligent and amazing she is if I am not attracted to her physically, I'm not interested in dating her.

I could not imagine being stuck in a marriage with no physical attraction. I would rather be single.

 

[Rhombus]

The impression I am getting is that one should not be sexually attracted to anyone until marriage. The problem is, that doesn't work in real life. It's not realistic. It's frankly, a little silly to me anyway, and I cannot see myself even considering dating someone that I do not find sexually attractive. I don't care how nice she is, or how many hours she reads her bible or how spiritual she is, or even how funny, intelligent and amazing she is if I am not attracted to her physically, I'm not interested in dating her.

I could not imagine being stuck in a marriage with no physical attraction. I would rather be single.

Hello. I don't think there's anything wrong with being physically attracted to someone. But, when you use the word sexually attracted, what do you mean? That you want to have sex with them, or that the person is someone who is physically attractive to you?

 

[Blueforest]

Like one of the previous posters said, we all have sin.

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

The point I'm trying to make here, friend, is that there's nothing wrong with being attracted to someone, and there's nothing wrong with desiring a relationship. What is wrong is having sexual fantasies towards that person. You'll be able to have sex with your wife, and that person is simply not your wife.

Ask God to help you. He seriously can. If this is a huge issue in your life, continuously cry out to God and ask Him to help you change. Pour out your heart to Him about your struggles. Ask Him for a wife who you can have fellowship with, serve the Lord with, and love. He's a faithful God, He will help you, you are more than a conqueror in Christ Jesus.

I've asked God to take away my sex drive and my desire for a mate. Unfortunately, those prayers have fallen on the deaf ears of the divine, I'm afraid. He does not respond.

I wonder why...? Normally, God is quick to respond to what I seek and ask for. We know He desires for His kids to walk uprightly and in purity, as I made this post - I know this is true. But He refuses to end my problems and take away this heavy burden.

 

[Blueforest]

Hello. I don't think there's anything wrong with being physically attracted to someone. But, when you use the word sexually attracted, what do you mean? That you want to have sex with them, or that the person is someone who is physically attractive to you?

I would not marry someone I did not want to have sex with, one day.

The two dichotomies you mean, to me, mean the same thing. Both imply a physical attraction to a person.

 

[Rhombus]

I've asked God to take away my sex drive and my desire for a mate. Unfortunately, those prayers have fallen on the deaf ears of the divine, I'm afraid. He does not respond.

I wonder why...? Normally, God is quick to respond to what I seek and ask for. We know He desires for His kids to walk uprightly and in purity, as I made this post - I know this is true. But He refuses to end my problems and take away this heavy burden.

You shouldn't ask that God take away your desires for a mate. I very well told you to ask God for a wife There's nothing wrong with desiring to be with someone, even if they're attractive. There's just a line that shouldn't be crossed before marriage, and that's either committing adultery, or committing it in your heart.

 

[Blueforest]

You shouldn't ask that God take away your desires for a mate. I very well told you to ask God for a wife There's nothing wrong with desiring to be with someone, even if they're attractive. There's just a line that shouldn't be crossed before marriage, and that's either committing adultery, or committing it in your heart.

But how is it adultery if neither party is married? I'm being serious here.

Assuming this passage refers to ALL women, married and unmarried (and the word adultery here has additional meanings) then it means do not desire women. That's a big problem for me.

That's why I feel being a Christian (follower of Jesus) right now for me is not something I can do. It's better for those who are able; "Let him who can accept this saying, accept it". Isn't that what Jesus told those who were called to be "eunuchs for the kingdom's sake?" It's clear transcending one's sexuality appears to be the more spiritual path. But I'm too "carnal" (natural) for that right now. Maybe one day, I can accept it... but not right now.