American Tract Society & the American Sunday School Union Agree ~

[Gary K]

To lead up to this question

What does the Sabbath have to do with it? The systematic theft already demonstrates the person is not a devout Christian.

 

[Leaf473]

What does the Sabbath have to do with it? The systematic theft already demonstrates the person is not a devout Christian.

The Sabbath enters into the discussion in this way:

We both agree that,
as you say,
the systematic theft already demonstrates the person is not a devout Christian.

Now, would the systematic non-observance of the seventh day
demonstrate the person is not a devout Christian?

 

[Gary K]

The Sabbath enters into the discussion in this way:

We both agree that,
as you say,
the systematic theft already demonstrates the person is not a devout Christian.

Now, would the systematic non-observance of the seventh day
demonstrate the person is not a devout Christian?

Not at this time it doesn't. The time will come when it will demonstrate that but the entire world will understand the choice they are making.

 

[Leaf473]

Not at this time it doesn't. The time will come when it will demonstrate that but the entire world will understand the choice they are making.

Very interesting!

Are you saying that a person can set aside one of the Ten Commandments and still be a devout Christian?

 

[Gary K]

Very interesting!

Are you saying that a person can set aside one of the Ten Commandments and still be a devout Christian?

Only if they don't understand the issues involved and the Sabbath has been the focus of the devil's attacks for thousands of years so there are many layers of obfuscation and deception surrounding it. As the devil is rhe most powerful created being in the universe his ability to deceive is incredible. Only God's word can reveal his deceptions and we must rely on scripture implicitly. Most Christians do not do that. They choose traditions over scripture and popularity of beliefover truth even though the majority has always been wrong.

 

[Leaf473]

Only if they don't understand the issues involved and the Sabbath has been the focus of the devil's attacks for thousands of years so there are many layers of obfuscation and deception surrounding it. As the devil is rhe most powerful created being in the universe his ability to deceive is incredible.

Well, that's why I was bringing up the idea of God writing his laws on our hearts and minds in post #526.

Can someone be deceived about what is written on their heart and mind? I don't think they can, because otherwise what is the purpose of writing something on someone's heart and mind?

But how does it look to you?

Only God's word can reveal his deceptions and we must rely on scripture implicitly. Most Christians do not do that. They choose traditions over scripture and popularity of beliefover truth even though the majority has always been wrong.

 

[Gary K]

Well, that's why I was bringing up the idea of God writing his laws on our hearts and minds in post #526.

Can someone be deceived about what is written on their heart and mind? I don't think they can, because otherwise what is the purpose of writing something on someone's heart and mind?

But how does it look to you?

We have to remember who Satan is. He is the most powerful being ever created. His power to deceive is so great he deceived 1/3 of the angels who lived in the very presence of God as to who God is. You really think that after living in a sinful world all of our lives we can detect his deceptions? All we know is sin. It is part and parcel of who we are.

We can't even agree on what is written in the heart and mind because he has so clouded the issues and yet you think there is no problem detecting his lies?

He convinced the Jews to crucify Jesus because of his hatred for our creator. And yet you think his deceptions aren't extremely powerful. He's had 6000 years to study human nature and detect our flaws.

1Peter 5: 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

 

[Leaf473]

We have to remember who Satan is. He is the most powerful being ever created. His power to deceive is so great he deceived 1/3 of the angels who lived in the very presence of God as to who God is.

You really think that after living in a sinful world all of our lives we can detect his deceptions?

Yes, because we are born again. We are new creations.

This doesn't mean you can detect every single deception. But I think we know what is written on our hearts and minds.

All we know is sin. It is part and parcel of who we are.

I agree that we still struggle with sin. But that is not all we know. We have the mind of Christ

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 2:16 - New American Standard Bible

For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

www.biblegateway.com

We can't even agree on what is written in the heart and mind because he has so clouded the issues and yet you think there is no problem detecting his lies?

I don't think it's easy to detect his lies, but I think we know what is written on our hearts and minds.

I think we probably do agree on what is written on our hearts and minds, we just express it differently

##########

Suppose you overheard a conversation that went like this:

John: What are you thinking about?

Jim: I'm thinking about going to the store.

-a little while later-

Jim: Earlier when I said I was thinking about going to the store, I was deceived. I only thought that's what I was thinking. I wasn't actually thinking that.

If I heard that I'd think Jim was one mixed up person. We can change our minds later, but of course we know what we are thinking.

He convinced the Jews to crucify Jesus because of his hatred for our creator.

The Jewish people at that time were not part of the New Covenant.

And yet you think his deceptions aren't extremely powerful.

I didn't say that

He's had 6000 years to study human nature and detect our flaws.

1Peter 5: 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Amen!

 

[Gary K]

Yes, because we are born again. We are new creations.

This doesn't mean you can detect every single deception. But I think we know what is written on our hearts and minds.


I agree that we still struggle with sin. But that is not all we know. We have the mind of Christ

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 2:16 - New American Standard Bible

For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

www.biblegateway.com

I don't think it's easy to detect his lies, but I think we know what is written on our hearts and minds.

I think we probably do agree on what is written on our hearts and minds, we just express it differently

##########

Suppose you overheard a conversation that went like this:

John: What are you thinking about?

Jim: I'm thinking about going to the store.

-a little while later-

Jim: Earlier when I said I was thinking about going to the store, I was deceived. I only thought that's what I was thinking. I wasn't actually thinking that.

If I heard that I'd think Jim was one mixed up person. We can change our minds later, but of course we know what we are thinking.


The Jewish people at that time were not part of the New Covenant.


I didn't say that


Amen!

Why did the coi have Aaron build a golden calf for them to worship less than 2 months after God spoke the 10 commandments from Sinai and throw an orgy?

 

[Leaf473]

Why did the coi have Aaron build a golden calf for them to worship less than 2 months after God spoke the 10 commandments from Sinai and throw an orgy?

Because they are a stiff necked people.

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 65:1 - New American Standard Bible

A Rebellious People - “I permitted Myself to be sought by those who did not ask for Me; I permitted Myself to be found by those who did not seek Me. I said, ‘Here am I, here am I,’ To a nation which did not call on My name.

www.biblegateway.com

The children of Israel in Sinai were not under the New Covenant.

Bible Gateway passage: Jeremiah 31:32 - New American Standard Bible

not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

Because they are a stiff necked people.

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 65:1 - New American Standard Bible

A Rebellious People - “I permitted Myself to be sought by those who did not ask for Me; I permitted Myself to be found by those who did not seek Me. I said, ‘Here am I, here am I,’ To a nation which did not call on My name.

www.biblegateway.com

The children of Israel in Sinai were not under the New Covenant.

Bible Gateway passage: Jeremiah 31:32 - New American Standard Bible

not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.

www.biblegateway.com

Wrong. The devil deceived them and had deceived them by them having lived in a pagan society for generations. That's no different than today. We are surrounded by paganism every day. It is pervasive in our society.

I can give you example after example of this from actors to musicians. All of them are into this and have been for decades.

 

[Gary K]

Here is more on paganism in our society.

 

[Gary K]

Here is more on paganism in our society.

 

[Leaf473]

Wrong. The devil deceived them and had deceived them by them having lived in a pagan society for generations. That's no different than today. We are surrounded by paganism every day. It is pervasive in our society.

I can give you example after example of this from actors to musicians. All of them are into this and have been for decades.

Here is more on paganism in our society.

Here is more on paganism in our society.

Gary, my man, I believe something went wrong with the way you quoted my post

I agree that there is a strong pagan influence in our society. At the same time, it's obvious to me that we know what is in our minds and written on our hearts.

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 8:10 - New American Standard Bible

FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT WHICH I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, DECLARES THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

www.biblegateway.com

You may wish to ponder this:
It is good to read the Bible. When we read the Bible, our eyes see markings on a page. They send that information to the brain. Our brains interpret those markings as English words. Those words are then in our mind. If we can be deceived about what is in our mind, then we can be deceived about what the Bible says. Thus, the Bible could not be used to know the truth.

Peace be with you, my man

 

[Leaf473]

Satan's ability to deceive is not greater than God's ability to write.

 

[Gary K]

Gary, my man, I believe something went wrong with the way you quoted my post

I agree that there is a strong pagan influence in our society. At the same time, it's obvious to me that we know what is in our minds and written on our hearts.

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 8:10 - New American Standard Bible

FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT WHICH I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, DECLARES THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

www.biblegateway.com

You may wish to ponder this:
It is good to read the Bible. When we read the Bible, our eyes see markings on a page. They send that information to the brain. Our brains interpret those markings as English words. Those words are then in our mind. If we can be deceived about what is in our mind, then we can be deceived about what the Bible says. Thus, the Bible could not be used to know the truth.

Peace be with you, my man

When we fill our minds with the devil's messages as in listening to rock and roll and watch his movies and tv the analytical half of our brains shut down and his messages go straight to our subconcious mind. That changes our beliefs without us even knowing it.

Did you even watch the videos? If you did and immediately dismissed the message contained in them the devil has implanted a lot of false beliefs in your subconcious mind. It takes a lot of prayer. self surrender. and Bible study to overcome this.

 

[Gary K]

Why were only 8 people saved from the flood? Was God incapable of saving people back then? Why does the Bible tell us people's thoughts were only evil continually?

Luke 17: 26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

Jesus tells us that when He comes the second time the spiritual state of our world will be the same way it was before the flood. Why? Has the devil lost his power to deceive? It doesn't appear that way to me. Seems to me he is going to be very successful in deceiving modern Gentiles. With all the history of deceptions and all the knowledge of God found in scripture the spiritual state of the world is going to be the same. Doesn't look like God writing His law in our hearts is going to be real successful and the devil is going to be very successful in over turning what God is attempting to write in our hearts.

 

[Leaf473]

When we fill our minds with the devil's messages as in listening to rock and roll and watch his movies and tv the analytical half of our brains shut down and his messages go straight to our subconcious mind.

Would you describe such a person as a serious, devout Christian?

That changes our beliefs without us even knowing it.

Did you even watch the videos? If you did and immediately dismissed the message contained in them the devil has implanted a lot of false beliefs in your subconcious mind. It takes a lot of prayer. self surrender. and Bible study to overcome this.

No, I didn't watch the videos. I already agree there is lots of paganism in our society

Peace be with you!

 

[Gary K]

Would you describe such a person as a serious, devout Christian?


No, I didn't watch the videos. I already agree there is lots of paganism in our society

Peace be with you!

I know of people who thought they were serious devout Christians and they have walked away from God. It's happened to good friends of mine. One couple went into eastern mysticism and began sleeping around. The wife actually offered herself to me on a silver platter in front of him.. The other couple began drinking and the husband has turned into a big nosed alky. I've known both couples since high school.

Then you need to watch them as they do a very good job of explaining how the devil scrambles our brains.

 

[Gary K]

We need to remember who our adversary is. He was the most powerful, beautiful and intelligent of all of God's creation before he corrupted himself. He was the covering cherub who lived in the very presence of God

Isaiah 14: 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Ezekiel 28: 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Think what he was like to look at. He was covered in precious stones. When he flew he must have been a beautiful, dazzling sight.

This guy has abilities far beyond us.