am i christian? or just a believer??

[xounstaer]

hi
i am just new here

i wanted to talk about this subject in my welcoming thread, maybe also so that i wouldnt bother oone with my questions.

now i believe in god and i believe in jesus christ of nazareth with all of my heart/mind.

i just dont believe in wrongdoing and taking advantage of an allready tough enough situation such as jesus murder/crusifixion/hanging.

the basic problem i encounter is that i have gotten the thought that being a christian of whatever denomination, mean; accepting he died for you/me and that be accepting that your sin are forgiven and if you then wash youself in water you are saved.

i adressed this exact issue basicly in the same way on other fora.
it's been eating at me recently, since if that what it takes to be christian then i am not a christian.

now you can see here how i feel about it.
if anyone can tell me how it al lreally is i be glad. i will talk to a pastor here about the issue next monday right after the shrink. but if you can help me out with this issue in between i be glad.

for extra note: believe' is the main intrest in my life and has been my main occupation for as long as i recall, that includes believing in christ and all that treu...

i just can no longer accept (not that i ever did) is being saved or so by believing jesus died for me/my sin. or to take advantage of that.

so far

stein

 

[salida]

To accept Jesus as your savior you must realize that you are a fallen person-all of mankind has fallen spiritually. Can you keep all of the 10 commandments 100% of the time all the time? Only Jesus did.

Are you a good person? www.livingwaters.com/good/
http://findingtruthtoday.org/ItsNotAboutYOU.aspx

If you can't accept this and repent you arn't a christian. A believer and a christian is the same thing.

 

[Harry3142]

Xounstaer-

The crucifixion of Christ needs to be seen as 'a happening within a happening' for us to truly understand what occurred. The authorities, and especially Pilate, who had a much more active role in Jesus' death than many imagine, thought that they were silencing a threat to their authority. For the priests of the temple, it relieved them of the concern that Jesus' popularity would give Pilate reason to get rid of them, which he had the authority to do. For Pilate, it relieved him of Tiberius' finding out that there was a preacher in Judea gathering large crowds who had yet to be dealt with. He had killed him, showing a very paranoid Tiberius that he was loyal to him, and he had set it up so that it appeared that he had capitulated to the priests, which relieved him of concern that there would be a riot because of Jesus' death.

But Jesus' death and resurrection had already been planned before he even came among us:

"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me - just as the Father knows me and I know the Father - and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life - only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." (The Gospel of St. John 10:14-18,NIV)

His death wasn't their victory; it was his own. He had succeeded in earning the salvation for us that we could never earn for ourselves. His work was done, so he went home. That's what affected the centurion so much that he called Jesus the Son of God (Mark 15:39). It's also why Pilate was so surprised to hear that Jesus was already dead that he had his own centurion confirm it (Mark 15:42-45). Jesus' death was his final miracle prior to his resurrection, and they both realized that.

 

[elman]

hi
i am just new here

i wanted to talk about this subject in my welcoming thread, maybe also so that i wouldnt bother oone with my questions.

now i believe in god and i believe in jesus christ of nazareth with all of my heart/mind.

i just dont believe in wrongdoing and taking advantage of an allready tough enough situation such as jesus murder/crusifixion/hanging.

the basic problem i encounter is that i have gotten the thought that being a christian of whatever denomination, mean; accepting he died for you/me and that be accepting that your sin are forgiven and if you then wash youself in water you are saved.

i adressed this exact issue basicly in the same way on other fora.
it's been eating at me recently, since if that what it takes to be christian then i am not a christian.

now you can see here how i feel about it.
if anyone can tell me how it al lreally is i be glad. i will talk to a pastor here about the issue next monday right after the shrink. but if you can help me out with this issue in between i be glad.

for extra note: believe' is the main intrest in my life and has been my main occupation for as long as i recall, that includes believing in christ and all that treu...

i just can no longer accept (not that i ever did) is being saved or so by believing jesus died for me/my sin. or to take advantage of that.

so far

stein

Read First John. You must love others, not just believe in the reality of Jesus.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Hi there, I am very willing to help you gain a better understanding of what it means to have faith in Jesus. I found it a bit hard to understand what you meant in your post however. Not your fault, it is just some times hard to communicate inner thoughts in a way others can understand, because only you are going throught them.

Doubts generally can come from many sources, our own lack of knowlege, lack of experience, some times from the devil, who knows our weaknesses, and wants us to feel bad about our selves. The fact is no matter where you are at currently with your faith God still loves you. He is not the kind of God to just chuck you out if you get a bit confused. Let me ask you where would you like to start, what concerns you the most. I mean I could write essays and volumes on why to trust in Jesus as a substitute for your sins, i.e. him taking them away. But what would you like?

 

[xounstaer]

i would like not to have the death of jesus on my coscience. even worse, for me not to be who i am if his crusifixion didnt happen.. it really bothers me.

you really touched me by saying god doesnt just chuck me out...

and all the replies where usefull..

 

[bling]

“Christian” is a descriptive term and not a title. To be a “Christian” you must be Christ like in your actions and motivation. (There really might not be that many “Christians” in the USA.)

Atonement is not that easy to explain and the people explaining it to you might not have a good understanding themselves.


The main thing is to realize you have been forgiven (some how) of all your huge debt of sin and thus you Love much ( Christ taught us [and life has taught us] “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…&#8221

 

[talitha]

i would like not to have the death of jesus on my coscience. even worse, for me not to be who i am if his crusifixion didnt happen.. it really bothers me.

you really touched me by saying god doesnt just chuck me out...

and all the replies where usefull..

We would all, I suppose, like to not have the death of Jesus on our consciences. The truth is that His death did change everything. It is the pivotal point of human history. And that was established before humankind was created. The Bible says that Jesus is the(sacrificial) lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world. What many people today don't seem to understand is that we do not get to pick and choose what to believe. God is.real, not just a concept. I cannot pick and choose my husband's personality; he is a real person with a personality of his own. In the same way I cannot pick and choose God's personality or decide how "my god" will conduct his business. He has his own ways, and my only choice is whether to accept him or not the way he is.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

i would like not to have the death of jesus on my coscience.

Well the fact is that was his choice, he choose that method. We don't have to feel guilty for God's choice. I can't with my own mind reason out why God did it that way. Maybe there is some super duper christian who has figured it out, and I would love them to enlighten myself. But really I think it was to show us that a) no matter how badly we are treated we should be forgiving, note Jesus while being crucified said "Father forgive them for they don't know hwt they are doing" b) He wanted to die to show he had the power over death it's self. If Jesus had not have risen (himself) from the dead he would be no more powerful than any man, note no man prayed for Jesus to rise again. He said before he died "I have the power to lay down my life, and I have the power to take it back up".

even worse, for me not to be who i am if his crusifixion didnt happen.. it really bothers me.

If get your meaning, you mean you would feel bad if it did not happen, and you are saying it did, becasue it was a crule thing to do to some one, or crule to wish it on some one.

Well the good thing is that God wants to bless us, because he loves us. He demonstrated that love in the very hour he was treated the worst. I mean for most of his life he lived in victory, healing the sick, raising the dead etc, no one could touch him. Then he allowed himself to be treated as badly as any person could be treated. Whiped, beaten, abused emotionally, and physically, yet in all of this he forgave them. To show us that no matter how badly we have treated God (for he was God), he still will forgive us. I am sure you have no desire to treat anyone in that way. But God was no pansy, he choose to share in the sufferings that many people go through, and show us how to respond, which is in love. The important thing to know is he loves you, he wants you to enjoy the life he has given you. Don't be caught up on the technicalities of religious doctrine, just believe Jesus loves you, died for you as an example, and forgives all your sins.

 

[timf]

i just can no longer accept (not that i ever did) is being saved or so by believing jesus died for me/my sin. or to take advantage of that.

It can be confusing especially since the English word "believe" can mean to agree that something is true whereas the Greek word PISTEUO that is translated "believe" is really better translated trust.

Christianity is really about a new life that we get from Jesus. Our faith (trust) is the conduit for this new life. It is this new life from Jesus that allows the Christian to live eternally (be saved).

Without the cross and the resurrection, there would be no mechanism for us to be connected to Jesus to receive this eternal life.

Many people set about trying to measure other people's faith and make declarations about who is and isn't saved. It can be then helpful to consider the subject of "assurance" of salvation. Here is something I wrote on the subject;

Jesus says that there will be many to whom he will say, "I never knew you". We also see Jesus telling the Pharisees, "you are of your father the devil". There have been, are, and will be people who are mistaken about their salvation and the status of their relationship with God.

The question becomes, "How can we be sure?"

The Bible says both that we can "know" we are saved (1John 5:13), and that we should examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith (2Corinthians 13:5). This is not a contradiction.The Bible tells us that there is uncertainty and can be certainty. The Bible also tells us to persevere. To the theologian this apparent ambiguity is something he must resolve and explain. As a result, there are many doctrines of various denominations that are promulgated more for their tidiness than their accuracy.

We might want to consider that the lack of Biblical specificity is not an error, but rather the desire of God that we derive our assurance of salvation directly from Him. God may want us unsure and ill at ease until we mature in faith and grow in the image of Christ and closer to Him.

Some religious experts offer measurement standards such as having been baptized, saying a particular prayer, having taken Jesus "into your heart", or made Jesus Lord of your life as the criteria to guarantee that one is saved.

If someone asks me if they are saved, I try to help them by using measurement criteria from the Bible. For example, the Bible is foolishness to those that are perishing, "Do you think the Bible is foolish?". The Bible says that people will know that we are Christians by the love we have for each other, "Do you have love for other Christians?" We have been sealed with the Holy Spirit, "Do you discern His presence?" The Christian is supposed to be in a process of becoming like Jesus, "Are you becoming like Jesus?".

For the person who is not comforted by such questions, I suggest that he put more work into knowing his Savior, the Bible, and surrendering himself to Jesus. Often it is our worldly attachments and walking in the flesh that prevent us from growing closer to his Lord and thus able to draw certainty of salvation.

Our modern organizational religious systems have lost the personal touch. They will often tell someone to be assured because they have met the established criteria and are thus saved. The relational component of Christianity comes in when an older and wiser Christian brother or sister can show a younger one how to draw closer to Jesus and gain the assurance they seek directly from Him who saved them. Christians do not need to fight over what they feel is the most accurate doctrinal statement. They need to encourage those whose faith is weak and walk is distant to draw closer to their Lord and draw their certainty directly from Him who loves them.

 

[SharonL]

Jesus' death on the cross is hard for all of us to understand. I know that Easter is a joyous time, but I cannot watch the programs of Jesus going to the cross and I feel bad about it - Jesus loved us so much that he died for us, but I cannot even watch the programs.

We will never understand love that is so deep that God would give His only begotten Son to die for us - this will be one of the things we will learn in Heaven. We just have to accept it because it was God's Will.

But you have the basics for belief - you believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and God knows your heart - I pray that God will give you peace about this so that you can enjoy your walk with Jesus- just put your hand in the hand of Jesus and let the Holy Spirit lead you. Jesus loves you and understands you. We all have problems with knowing that kind of love - we are not capable of that kind of love, so therefore we cannot relate to it.

 

[xounstaer]

thank you all for clarifying my doubts are not so strange.
sorry i didnt read your post timf.
and salida...i did the survey and i think it's silly, and i could even bring up arguments such as f e child abusage, to purposely disobey or disagree even upon allready at least one commandment.
for the rest i had enough sin as child and still sometimes think i sin or have exciting fantasy's as sin, i guess. i believe in repenting yes. i believe in christ yes. i believe in god and all' yes.

but let me put it this way in this time then. would you want a fellow being in worldsitiscenship to die for you good feeling 2011 after christ? whomever?
i suppose not. and forgive me for my paranoia over saying these previous wrods. but you at least got my feedback of honesty un reply to your post/path you showed me.

 

[xounstaer]

sry i forgot.
muslims believe too, serious.. and there not christian. leaving the question if i am christian behind... i just wanted to say believing or being a christian believing in jesus as the western world does is not the same as lot's of other religions or so within believe.

believe me

 

[talitha]

Wow, I am not sure what you are saying / asking.....

If you are asking whether or not Muslims, etc., get to spend eternity in the presence of God just because they believe in something, the answer is no. It really is not what you believe but Whom you know that matters.

 

[xounstaer]

whom do i know?
whomdo you know?
whom do we know?

and what do/did they we know believe actually/exactly/correctly?
as to what whom knows/believes whom we know??

sry
_____

tell me then why would there be a yes to the catholic/christian believe based upon jesus? and a no to muslims ot etc..? who get's to decide that i guess is god and not a human being or multiple. for me as human to gues the answer would be found by god in who's right or who has got his grace, in his eyes.

further rest details: muslims do believe in jesus and the quranhas lots in similair as the bible's OT. f e joseph (dont know if the spelling of that name is correct) the one who got all saying over egypt and all else that known on him. the first lines on the quaran regarding him in person in one book/chapter of the 114 which all mostly take the stand of overvieuw and lay down the question that god will point out wether jews or christians are right. but tgb to joseph and the first lines about him are:

that heaven bent down for him.
as to where the bible says that joseph said opposed: i am god.
not that that's anything new to hear from prophetising people. the only differ i see is that you dont hear joseph prophetising a lot or a bit actually..

but to get back to what i wonderred about, was; morality versus the murder or as some may prefer the sacrifise of jesus.
nm what is official fathers name was, as he was to be kept quit.

but serious i am not in for discussion here (this thread) i was just asking for opinions on the crusifix. not who's right or wrong, really. or anything' else.

sry if i seem offensive/defensive, but i'd like/hope to stay on topic at hand and not else.( i had another topic/thread/questions which also got bent of topic, maybe that's why)

to be sure to you though and reply it's 2011 and i am a very western christian trying to save or who has saved a certain believe, in a certain matter.. what's next doesnt matter even anymore. it's all been dealth with if you ask me. all that remains then is will people know better tta.

gues that is enough of ananswer to your wow' ty btw (holy) x. and it relates to the topic i suppose somewhat for sure. but again; it is not me which i ask an opinion about, but jesus christ of nazareth. so said. the one from 2011 ago.

hope you understand, i dont want to be harsh, really. but i just havent got a question to my life and the topic that gets to be adressed to discuss even either. i shared my experiences elsewhere.

but if you want me to share, please pm me. or pm the title of the topic and underneath what it is (where i can find it) then i will post in it.

and beside all i said now..
ty i know Whom i am and what formed/made me and the inheritage i got and all.
and i say sorry for that, and if you understand that sorry

sorry (getting teary)
look i believe in jesus as a person being son of the living word or god so badly that i couldnt accept it as it was...sry '

was jesus for real reamins as question/issue. yes i know for sure otherwise i wouldnt even exist. explicitly.

here this issue about accepting the crusific/murder/slaying/innocent sacrifise ends for me. as i also asked round here, at the clients nurses and all..

ty (if you doubt me or cannot follow i respect..)

my last word on: am i christian or believer, and the reasoning why i doubted has been answerred.

an sry and ty for your believe(s)? atst talitha.

xxx from the netherlands
stein

 

[xounstaer]

what i said i meant, but i didnt want to adress it here so that i not become an idol or worse an icon.. and dont want to be misunderstood or banned. if so. yes i am aware of my signature, gues i fluncked there. since i seriously actually didnt want to mention my psychosis here.

but to not be afraid let me ask again:
what is your feeling/opinion on rightiousness and justice in relation with the penalty jesus payed and specially the way is suggested it's payed for by?

 

[talitha]

Well, I am going to assume that you want a response to what you wrote here, and not just to the OP question, because you asked me questions??

whom do i know?
whomdo you know?
whom do we know?

and what do/did they we know believe actually/exactly/correctly?
as to what whom knows/believes whom we know??

tell me then why would there be a yes to the catholic/christian believe based upon jesus? and a no to muslims ot etc..?

because Muslims don't worship God. They worship a false god. To say that there would be a 'yes' to Muslims would be like saying you can come to my party if you know someone who pretends to be me.

who get's to decide that i guess is god and not a human being or multiple. for me as human to gues the answer would be found by god in who's right or who has got his grace, in his eyes.

Correct, and there is plenty of information in the Bible about who God is and what He is like, so that we don't have to make a mistake.

further rest details: muslims do believe in jesus and the quranhas lots in similair as the bible's OT.

That's because a lot of the quran is copied from the Bible and altered, somewhat like my English students do when they are writing papers. Ugh. Muslims do not believe something crucial about Jesus: that he rose from the dead. They do not believe He is uniquely the Son of God. They reduce Him to prophethood.

As for Joseph, in the Bible he does prophesy (assuming you are talking about the son of Isaac in the OT).

but to get back to what i wonderred about, was; morality versus the murder or as some may prefer the sacrifise of jesus.... i was just asking for opinions on the crusifix.... it is not me which i ask an opinion about, but jesus christ of nazareth. so said. the one from 2011 ago.

Yes, the sacrifice of Jesus is a central doctrine of Christianity, and we become Christians when we appropriate that sacrifice for ourselves and enter fellowship with God. Jesus Christ of Nazareth was brutally killed, and this was God's plan to redeem mankind from the grip of sin and death.

was jesus for real reamins as question/issue. yes i know for sure otherwise i wouldnt even exist. explicitly.

I don't understand..

but to not be afraid let me ask again:
what is your feeling/opinion on rightiousness and justice in relation with the penalty jesus payed and specially the way is suggested it's payed for by?

My feeling is gratefulness. My opinion is that what the Bible says about it is true.

 

[Emmy]

Dear xounstaer. You tell us that you love Jesus very much and want to be one of His followers, a Christian. In the Bible, in Matthew, chapter 22, verses 35-40, Jesus tells us what to do: " The first and great Commandment is: " Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second Commandment is: Love thy neighbour as thyself." ( neighbour is all you know and meet, friends or not friends) Jesus has told us that on these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. ( the whole Bible ) God wants our Love, freely given and no conditions asked. A good way to start: treat everbody you know or meet, as you would love to be treated: kindly and friendly, do not get angry, or ignore people, be helpful if needed, and forgive them if they say they are sorry. God will see how hard you try to follow His Commandments to love, and God will bless you for it. Do pray and ask God to help you, ask Jesus also to help you. Jesus will give you His Love and Joy, and then you can share all the Love, Jesus`s love and your love. I do not know if you know the Holy Spirit, ask your Minister. The Holy Spirit will also give you His love to share with everybody you meet. God is Love, and Jesus died for us, that we can live and return to God. We have to Repent, to change from being selfish and unloving, to loving God with all our being, and loving our neighbour as ourselves. My prayers are with you when you see the Minister. Tell him that you want to love God and your neighbour, as Jesus told us in Matthew, chapter 22, verses 35-40. I say this with love, xounstaer. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[xounstaer]

ty emmy an you 2 telitha.

i am now discussing wether i agree on the nicene creed or not whic i gues i do in a way of truth. moraly i still have catchy feeling about the crusifix.

but i guess i shouldnt keep focused on it and should just accept it, evnthough moraly agreeing in on it i find hard. as i said i suppose it is the truth, no matter my opinion. though am not sure..

i red your post again emmy. i gues all you say would be empowered in christ and me too if i am or when i get more aware that he did die for us. by telling how the deal(s) really are and dieing for that.. so that now we can tell frelly. do you know what i mean. it's correct not. (frowning myself here)