All actions of God in OT is Yeshua

[visionary]

I made the title a declaration to stir discussion. I will present my case for believing that all activities of God's involvement on earth is in effect Yeshua's.

I hope there is no argument that Yeshua was not before His incarnation. What I am going to try to present is His involvement in the things of earth because that is His assignment.

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although theworks were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of theworld: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

It will be in every physical and political sense, a real kingdom of earth that Yeshua will rule. It will have a king, a government, a capital, and an international system of laws. God has already delegated `all power in heaven and in earth' to His own Son, our Jewish Messiah Yeshua.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

So when I read OT, and I read a statement like this I think of Yeshua.

1 Chronicles 29:11 Thine, O Lord is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O Lord, and thou art exalted as head above all.

 

[visionary]

Some may think that this is a kingdom to come. Yes, but when did God give Him the Kingdom. We know Yeshua is fighting Satan to regain the kingdom that was lost by sin. But, was it Yeshua's kingdom to begin with?

Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; 30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Ok, Yeshua said that He was already appointed this kingdom before He came to earth the first time. When Moses was introduced to God, it was explained to him this way.

Acts 7:31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him, 32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.

Exodus 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Exodus 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Yeshua cleared up the matter by explaining that it was Him.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

And Yeshua is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob... Moses...etc.

 

[visionary]

Have you ever asked yourself why Yeshua was willing to die for us? I believe it has a lot to do with the responsibility Yeshua took on His shoulders when given the kingdom. From before the foundation of the world, Yeshua planned on being the contingency plan should anything go wrong. He has planned it from the beginning. He is our alpha and omega. With all authority given to Him from the foundation of the world, finished, executed, and legally able to give to whom He will the inheritance.

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

 

[visionary]

With any kingdom, there are laws. Yeshua identified Himself with those laws as His.

John 14:15 If you love me, you will keep my commands…

And again in John 14:21 “Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me, and the one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him.

Did you know that the Law of God in Exodus is slightly different that the one recorded in Deut? In the Sabbath command in Exodus, He identifies Himself as the Creator. In Deut, God identifies Himself as the redeemer.

Isaiah 44:6: Thus said the LORD, King of Israel and its Redeemer, the LORD, Master of Legions: I am the first and I am the last, and aside from Me there is no God.

Colossians 2:9: For in Him, bodily, lives the fullness of all that God is.

Isaiah 43:25: I, only I, am He Who wipes away your willful sins for My sake, and I shall not recall your sins.

John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. All things came to be through Him, and without Him nothing made had being. In Him was life, and the life was the light of mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not suppressed it.

Psalm 118:22 There is salvation in no one else! For there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by whom we must be saved!

I know many of these verses are so familiar to you, but look at them again to see Yeshua has been our God, since the beginning.

What was Yeshua proof?

Matthew 9:6-7: "But look! I will prove to you that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” He then said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, pick up your mattress, and go home!” 7 And the man got up and went home.

Yeshua is demonstrating to the people that He has been given the power to forgive sins, something that only God can do.

Mark 2:7 “How can this fellow say such a thing? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins except God?”

 

[visionary]

Matthew 26:63-64, the High Priest directly confronted Yeshua, saying to Him, “I charge You under oath by the living God, tell us if You are Messiah!” (the Messiah Son of God). Yeshua responded: “as you have said,” thus affirming under oath that He is the Messiah, the Son of the Living God. Given the circumstances, I would be evasive too. This was not the time and place, to drive home a point that would scare the High Priest to death. He claimed to be the Messiah, the Lord, the Anointed One, and the unique Divine Son of the Living God, pre-existent, and one with the Father! Peter understood that.

 

[gadar perets]

I hope there is no argument that Yeshua was not before His incarnation.

I do not believe he literally preexisted before his birth.

John 17:24

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
...
1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

The Almighty is capable of loving, foreordaining and choosing people before they are ever created.

Hebrews 4:3

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although theworks were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of theworld: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

These verses have no bearing on the OP that I can see.

It will be in every physical and political sense, a real kingdom of earth that Yeshua will rule. It will have a king, a government, a capital, and an international system of laws. God has already delegated `all power in heaven and in earth' to His own Son, our Jewish Messiah Yeshua.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

I agree.

Colossians 1:16

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

So when I read OT, and I read a statement like this I think of Yeshua.

1 Chronicles 29:11 Thine, O Lord is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O Lord, and thou art exalted as head above all.

Col 1:16 incorrectly translates two different Greek words as "by" ("en" and "dia"), which should have been translated "in" and "through" as the ASV has it:

Col 1:16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;
​

All things were created by the Father, in and through Messiah, as He (the Father) spoke them into existence.

1Chr 29:11 speaks of Yeshua's Father.

 

[Soyeong]

The Targum says that it is the memra that did the creating, which is also translated as "logos" or "word":

Genesis 1:26-27 "And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them."

Deuteronomy 33:27 The habitation of Eloha is from eternity, and the world was made by His Word; and He will drive out thy enemies from before thee, and will say, Destroy.

If you study the actions of the memra in the Targum and keep in mind that the book of John identifies Yeshua as the memra, then it is without question that he was saying that the actions of God in the OT were taken by Yeshua.

 

[visionary]

Matt 5:17 Jesus said: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets! I have not come to abolish, but to fulfill”

If that isn’t clear enough, Yeshua goes on to declare

18 “Amen, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or serif shall ever pass away from the Torah until all things come to pass”

This is His Kingdom, His rule, and His decision. He is King of Kings, Lord of Lords, our Heavenly Father.

Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

He is Lord over the angels.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

 

[gadar perets]

Some may think that this is a kingdom to come. Yes, but when did God give Him the Kingdom. We know Yeshua is fighting Satan to regain the kingdom that was lost by sin. But, was it Yeshua's kingdom to begin with?

Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; 30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Ok, Yeshua said that He was already appointed this kingdom before He came to earth the first time.

It was appointed in YHWH's foreordained plans just as it was appointed the Son to be the Lamb slain.

Acts 7:31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him, 32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.

Exodus 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Exodus 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Yeshua cleared up the matter by explaining that it was Him.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

And Yeshua is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob... Moses...etc.

The "God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is Yeshua's Father YHWH.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Yeshua; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.​

 

[gadar perets]

The Targum says that it is the memra that did the creating, which is also translated as "logos" or "word":

Genesis 1:26-27 "And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them."

Deuteronomy 33:27 The habitation of Eloha is from eternity, and the world was made by His Word; and He will drive out thy enemies from before thee, and will say, Destroy.

If you study the actions of the memra in the Targum and keep in mind that the book of John identifies Yeshua as the memra, then it is without question that he was saying that the actions of God in the OT were taken by Yeshua.

I do not accept any writings that add to the inspired Word. The Targum adds "memra" to what YHWH inspired.

 

[visionary]

So how many places declare Yeshua God? I know a few.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.



Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Hebrews 1:8 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

 

[visionary]

I do not accept any writings that add to the inspired Word. The Targum adds "memra" to what YHWH inspired.

MEMRA is a whole another study.

 

[visionary]

It was appointed in YHWH's foreordained plans just as it was appointed the Son to be the Lamb slain.


The "God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is Yeshua's Father YHWH.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Yeshua; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.​

I can understand the Lord predicament. To talk about Himself in the third person does get confusing though. I think clarification will come with His coming. We will see that they are one and the same.

 

[visionary]

I do not believe he literally preexisted before his birth.

The Almighty is capable of loving, foreordaining and choosing people before they are ever created.

These verses have no bearing on the OP that I can see.


I agree.

Col 1:16 incorrectly translates two different Greek words as "by" ("en" and "dia"), which should have been translated "in" and "through" as the ASV has it:

Col 1:16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;
​

All things were created by the Father, in and through Messiah, as He (the Father) spoke them into existence.

1Chr 29:11 speaks of Yeshua's Father.

OK.. there is someone posting here who does not believe Yeshua is the great I AM of Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, and Moses.

 

[gadar perets]

Have you ever asked yourself why Yeshua was willing to die for us? I believe it has a lot to do with the responsibility Yeshua took on His shoulders when given the kingdom. From before the foundation of the world, Yeshua planned on being the contingency plan should anything go wrong. He has planned it from the beginning. He is our alpha and omega. With all authority given to Him from the foundation of the world, finished, executed, and legally able to give to whom He will the inheritance.

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Yeshua didn't plan anything. His Father YHWH planned everything and He made Yeshua PART of that plan (the main part). The Father is the first cause of everything:

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Master Yeshua Messiah, through whom are all things, and we through him.​

 

[gadar perets]

I can understand the Lord predicament. To talk about Himself in the third person does get confusing though. I think clarification will come with His coming. We will see that they are one and the same.

Acts 3:13 is not Yeshua speaking in the third person. It is the Apostle Peter speaking, teaching and verifying that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is Yeshua's Father YHWH.

 

[gadar perets]

OK.. there is someone posting here who does not believe Yeshua is the great I AM of Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, and Moses.

The being who said He was the "I AM" in Exodus 3:14 is the same being who said He was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in Exodus 3:6. Acts 3:13 settles the matter. It was Father YHWH saying He was the "I AM".

 

[visionary]

The being who said He was the "I AM" in Exodus 3:14 is the same being who said He was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in Exodus 3:6. Acts 3:13 settles the matter.

Yep. and Yeshua said it was He who was before Abraham, the great I AM.

 

[visionary]

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, "I AM THAT I AM" and he said, "Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

John 8:56-58 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

Matthew 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I AM THE Son of God.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I AM THE bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 6:41 The Jews (some of) then murmured at him, because he said, I AM THE bread which came down from heaven.

John 6:51 I AM THE living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I AM THE light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I AM THE light of the world.

John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I AM THE door of the sheep.

John 10:9 I AM THE door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

John 10:11 I AM THE good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

John 10:14 I AM THE good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I AM THE Son of God?

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I AM THE resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I AM THE way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 15:1 I AM THE true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

John 15:5 I AM THE vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I AM THE first and the last:

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I AM THE root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

John 8: 24...if ye believe not that I AM He, ye shall die in your sins.

 

[Soyeong]

I do not accept any writings that add to the inspired Word. The Targum adds "memra" to what YHWH inspired.

Nehemiah 8:8 They read from the Book of the Law of God, making it clear[a] and giving the meaning so that the people understood what was being read.

The people had been in captivity and spoke Aramaic, so this verse is in reference to the Targum, which made the Book of the Law of God clear and gave it meaning so that the people could understand it. It was read out loud in synagogues every Sabbath, so it was very likely that John was inspired to write the opening to his Gospel after hearing Genesis 1 read out loud. They considered the memra to have six attributes, which John then attributed to Yeshua one after the other, so the parallels are extremely strong:

1. "The memra is individual and yet the same as God (John 1:1-“and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”).
2. The memra was the instrument of creation (John 1:3-“All things were made by Him” and John 1:10-“the world was made by him”).
3. The memra was the instrument of salvation (John 1:12-“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name”).
4. The memra was the visible presence of God or Theophany (John 1:14-“And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us”).
5. The memra was the covenant maker (John 1:17-“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ”).
6. The memra was the revealer of God (John 1:18-“No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him”)."

http://www.bibleword.org/wp/the-memra-the-word/2132