A question of motives

[pinetree]

I appreciate that, Pinetree. I also think that you've nailed it with the introspection part. I'm very introspective and more often than not it leads me to troublesome thinking about myself.

I know what you mean ..one day I realized I was always looking at my earthen vessel..

 

[heron]

The vantage point makes a difference. If you're asking whether God rewards it, whether people benefit from it, whether a bad-motivation person should be encouraged, whether we should hold ourselves more accountable... these all seem to have different answers.

I think the toughest struggles are when we see our own church friends setting up programs that we think might have selfish motives, because we are trying to support and cheer them on but might disagree with the premises.

An example -- great graphics, drama and music for a seeker-friendly church are good, but might be used just to increase numbers rather than promote spiritual growth.

Another example -- mass evangelists going into impoverished countries where people walk ten miles in bare feet, and then are told that God will bless their donations.

Another example -- people who are gifted in hospitality, who overdo it and insist on visiting sick people who don't want visits and just want to rest.

 

[imperfectchristian]

Is it better to do the right thing for the wrong reasons than to not do it at all?

It is good to do the right thing.

It is better to do it for the right reasons.

It is worth very little to nothing to the person doing it if it is not done for the right reasons. (see 1st Corinthians 13)

Doing nothing is not worth anything to anyone.

 

[Cassidy]

Helloooooooooo!

How is it even possible to have 'wrong' motives when doing 'good'?

 

[tm2cruz]

How is it even possible to have 'wrong' motives when doing 'good'?

It is possible but I'll share some verses to explain it...

"And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful."
-Luke 6:34-36

"Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly."
-Matthew 6:1-4

They just look good on the outside but inside their hearts they want to be popular or they're just pretending they're good. "Hypocrites" actually means an actor... Most of these kind of people are from political positions.
Another example of this is we give something for our boss for example so we can expect something from him to give us something. That's a wrong motive. Jesus said we give without expecting in return. If we do that then that's love. I hope you understand what I mean.

 

[Cassidy]

But are those scriptures in reference to the regenerated who's desires are God's desires and who doesn't want to do what their body want's to do? Romans 7

 

[tm2cruz]

But are those scriptures in reference to the regenerated who's desires are God's desires and who doesn't want to do what their body want's to do? Romans 7

Yup, same thing. In Romans 7 it explains everything between the fleshly or evil desires and spiritual or Godly desires right? I'll give you a picture...
Two guys give to the poor. The first one gives showing to the public how much he gave and showing to the public he's a good guy because he gives. The second one gives because he wants to help the poor and didn't tell anyone about it. The first guy gives with wrong motives because he gives only because he wants to be popular or in other words he wants to exalt himself. This is the fleshly or evil desires. The other guy is the example of good motive.
Note about Romans 7, it explains about being freed from the law of sin. It explains about the law, or good deeds, cannot save us. Only our faith in Jesus Christ can save us.

 

[ralangley]

Yup, same thing. In Romans 7 it explains everything between the fleshly or evil desires and spiritual or Godly desires right? I'll give you a picture...
Two guys give to the poor. The first one gives showing to the public how much he gave and showing to the public he's a good guy because he gives. The second one gives because he wants to help the poor and didn't tell anyone about it. The first guy gives with wrong motives because he gives only because he wants to be popular or in other words he wants to exalt himself. This is the fleshly or evil desires. The other guy is the example of good motive.
Note about Romans 7, it explains about being freed from the law of sin. It explains about the law, or good deeds, cannot save us. Only our faith in Jesus Christ can save us.

Perhaps we could add a third guy. He gives because we're commanded to do so, and he's afraid of hell. Is he really any different from the first guy? He's still motivated by his own selfish desires, i.e. avoiding hell. I think God wants us to love so much that love freely flows from us in many different forms. We feed, we heal, we share, we give. But most of us need to learn to love like that. We need to practice loving even when our motives aren't yet sanctified.

Another thought. It seems a lot of Christians have a fear of false pride. They don't want to do anything great for the Kingdom because they might fall into pride. So they wait until their motives are completely purified.....and they wait a long, long time. Maybe it would be better to get out there and feed the hungry, heal the sick, and preach the gospel. I think they would be humbled pretty quickly, and in the meantime, God's will would be done.

 

[tm2cruz]

Perhaps we could add a third guy. He gives because we're commanded to do so, and he's afraid of hell. Is he really any different from the first guy? He's still motivated by his own selfish desires, i.e. avoiding hell. I think God wants us to love so much that love freely flows from us in many different forms. We feed, we heal, we share, we give. But most of us need to learn to love like that. We need to practice loving even when our motives aren't yet sanctified.

Another thought. It seems a lot of Christians have a fear of false pride. They don't want to do anything great for the Kingdom because they might fall into pride. So they wait until their motives are completely purified.....and they wait a long, long time. Maybe it would be better to get out there and feed the hungry, heal the sick, and preach the gospel. I think they would be humbled pretty quickly, and in the meantime, God's will would be done.

Yup, the heart is the issue. That's why we always have to remind ourselves that good works cannot save us, only faith in Jesus Christ. Knowing that can make us love our neighbors and do those good works, including giving and helping the poor, automatically. But every person is different how they love their neighbors. Some people are really vulnerable in pride but they can lay it down by thinking they're doing it for God's glory, not their glory. I used to be like that and sometimes I felt that way.

 

[Cassidy]

Yup, same thing. In Romans 7 it explains everything between the fleshly or evil desires and spiritual or Godly desires right? I'll give you a picture...
Two guys give to the poor. The first one gives showing to the public how much he gave and showing to the public he's a good guy because he gives. The second one gives because he wants to help the poor and didn't tell anyone about it. The first guy gives with wrong motives because he gives only because he wants to be popular or in other words he wants to exalt himself. This is the fleshly or evil desires. The other guy is the example of good motive.
Note about Romans 7, it explains about being freed from the law of sin. It explains about the law, or good deeds, cannot save us. Only our faith in Jesus Christ can save us.

I would say that the first guy didn't perform a 'good deed'...rather he performed a 'filthy rag'. I believe the only deeds that can be deemed 'good' in the true sense of the word...come from God...so the motive would be from God as well.

I just don't believe that you can have a 'good deed' with a bad motive...because the motive would be your own (not God's) and it would turn the deed from a good one...to a bad one (filthy rag).

 

[Floatingaxe]

Haven't read the thread yet, but answered "no". If it's the wrong reason to do something, it's generally the wrong thing to be doing.

A motive check takes a second. To do a good thing will bring a swift, short-lived reward, but the eternal reward for that same deed will be burned up in the refining fire at the Judgment Seat of Christ---so the heavenly reward for it is forfeited if the motive is not to serve Jesus.