A New Book that explodes the Fascist Myth

[Lepanto]

I'd like to recommend to everybody an interesting new book -
"Liberal Fascism" by Jonah Goldberg.

It explodes the myth that Nazism and Fascism are movements of the Right. According to Mr Goldberg, they are actually movements of the Left.

In fact, I have heard this argument before. Many years ago, American TFP has published an article "Is it Fascist to be Anti-Communist ?".

According to the article, the Leftists associated Nazism and Fascism with the Right as a tactics to make anti-Communists feel ashamed.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

In short: it's a gigantic pile of nonsense.

 

[Lepanto]

It is NOT nonsense. Read "Is it Fascist to be anti-Communist?".
Part of it is reproduced below:
__________________________________________________________


I. Philosophical concepts -

>>> Both Nazi-Fascism and Communism obey common ideologists : Marx and Hegel.

Evidences

* Nazi-Fascism:
1) "The National Socialist movement has one single master: Marxism." - Goebbels (Goebbels, Kampf um Berlin, page 19.)

2) "Mussolini likes to affirm that Marx is his spiritual father." (Mussolini y el Fascismo," in Que sais je. (in Spanish), page 31.)


* Communism:
1) "We are Communists, disciples of Marx and Engels."
(Thorez, M., Discurso del 28 de Octubre de 1937. Ed. Comite Popular de Propaganda.)



>>> Both Nazi-Fascism and Communism have an atheistic doctrine.

Evidences

* Nazi-Fascism:
1) "We want no other god than Germany" - Hitler


* Communism:
1) It is obvious Communism is atheistic.



>>> Both Nazi-Fascism and Communism have an evolutionist doctrine.

Evidences

* Nazi-Fascism:
1) "We know that there is no definitive state, that there is nothing durable, that there is only a perpetual revolution." - Rauschning (Rauschning, Hitler Said to Me, 1937.)


* Communism:
1) "There is nothing definitive, absolute, or sacred. The only thing that exists is the uninterrupted process of the future and the transitory." - Engels

______________________________________________________

II. Concept of the State

>>> Both are heralds of a totalitarian state.

Evidences

* Nazi-Fascism:
1) "Everything in the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State."- Mussolini

2) "The State is the continent and the race is the content." - Hitler


* Communism:
1) "The dictatorship of the proletariat (the name given to the State) is domination unrestrained by the law and based upon force." - Lenin

_______________________________________________________

III. Economic Concept

>>> They promote socialism.

Evidences

* Nazi-Fascism:
1) "We are socialists and mortal enemies of the present capitalist economic system." (Der Nationalsozialismos, die Weltanschauung des 20. Jahrhunderts.)

* Communism:
1) "It is evident that Communism fights for the destruction of the capitalist system and the implantation of socialism."

___________________________________________________________

I found these from other sources -

"he [Hitler] repeatedly condemned Christianity for its opposition to the teaching of evolution . . ." —*Daniel Gasman, Scientific Origins of Modern Socialism: Social Darwinism in Ernst Haeckel and the German Monist League (1971), p. 188.

Hitler said this: "He [Hitler] accepted evolution much as we today accept Einsteinian relativity."—*Larry Azar, Twentieth Century in Crisis (1990), p. 180.

 

[namaste_benry]

In short: it's a gigantic pile of nonsense.

LOL!

I don't think I'll be reading the book. It sounds entirely contrary to common sense.

 

[Chamdar]

It's not a new book and whatever arguably valid points Jonah Goldberg made in it were overshadowed by his hypocritical endorsement of Rudy Giuliani.

 

[shantystar]

lol

 

[Cabal]

I'd be curious to give it a look, but given how much the meaning and application of the terms liberal and conservative have changed over the last 80 years or so, I'm not hugely optimistic this will be relevant.

That, and I'm struggling to see how just because the left wingers may have been fascistic (in a few countries, in a particularly short timespan, no less) doesn't mean that the right today ISN'T fascistic.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

A central part of Nazi dogma was that the Jews had created the hateful ideal of equality under the law. To Hitler’s mind, any political society not founded upon a distinct pecking order — with a superman like himself at the top — was the unnatural outcome of Jewish manipulation.

If all Western democracies were therefore suspect, communism — which claimed that all working people were comrades who deserved equal rewards — was doubly damned. The Nazis made much of the fact that Karl Marx was born a Jew, though they neglected to mention that his family had embraced Lutheranism, and that Marx himself often denounced his own race.

Of course Lenin was accused of being a secret Jew who was in on the conspiracy, and the main aim of Judeo-Marxism-Leninism was to unleash the robotic hordes of brainwashed communist warriors against the noble Nordic elite.

This theme played well for Hitler in Germany. Fear of communism helped create support for the Nazi party and its huge corps of professional thugs, who engaged in public brawls with German Marxists whenever they could get the upper hand.

In the 1920s, Hitler said that the Leninists had murdered millions upon millions of their own countrymen, "partly on the scaffold, partly by machine guns and similar means, partly in veritable slaughterhouses." Reaching a hair-raising climax, Hitler bellowed that "we all know that this scourge is approaching, that it is also coming upon Germany."

 

[Neve]

It is NOT nonsense. Read "Is it Fascist to be anti-Communist?".
Part of it is reproduced below:
__________________________________________________________


I. Philosophical concepts -

>>> Both Nazi-Fascism and Communism obey common ideologists : Marx and Hegel.

Evidences

* Nazi-Fascism:
1) "The National Socialist movement has one single master: Marxism." - Goebbels (Goebbels, Kampf um Berlin, page 19.)

2) "Mussolini likes to affirm that Marx is his spiritual father." (Mussolini y el Fascismo," in Que sais je. (in Spanish), page 31.)


* Communism:
1) "We are Communists, disciples of Marx and Engels."
(Thorez, M., Discurso del 28 de Octubre de 1937. Ed. Comite Popular de Propaganda.)



>>> Both Nazi-Fascism and Communism have an atheistic doctrine.

Evidences

* Nazi-Fascism:
1) "We want no other god than Germany" - Hitler


* Communism:
1) It is obvious Communism is atheistic.



>>> Both Nazi-Fascism and Communism have an evolutionist doctrine.

Evidences

* Nazi-Fascism:
1) "We know that there is no definitive state, that there is nothing durable, that there is only a perpetual revolution." - Rauschning (Rauschning, Hitler Said to Me, 1937.)


* Communism:
1) "There is nothing definitive, absolute, or sacred. The only thing that exists is the uninterrupted process of the future and the transitory." - Engels

______________________________________________________

II. Concept of the State

>>> Both are heralds of a totalitarian state.

Evidences

* Nazi-Fascism:
1) "Everything in the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State."- Mussolini

2) "The State is the continent and the race is the content." - Hitler


* Communism:
1) "The dictatorship of the proletariat (the name given to the State) is domination unrestrained by the law and based upon force." - Lenin

_______________________________________________________

III. Economic Concept

>>> They promote socialism.

Evidences

* Nazi-Fascism:
1) "We are socialists and mortal enemies of the present capitalist economic system." (Der Nationalsozialismos, die Weltanschauung des 20. Jahrhunderts.)

* Communism:
1) "It is evident that Communism fights for the destruction of the capitalist system and the implantation of socialism."

___________________________________________________________

I found these from other sources -

"he [Hitler] repeatedly condemned Christianity for its opposition to the teaching of evolution . . ." —*Daniel Gasman, Scientific Origins of Modern Socialism: Social Darwinism in Ernst Haeckel and the German Monist League (1971), p. 188.

Hitler said this: "He [Hitler] accepted evolution much as we today accept Einsteinian relativity."—*Larry Azar, Twentieth Century in Crisis (1990), p. 180.

Michael Mann in his book, Fascism, defines the term as containing three components:
1. strong belief in the power of the state, or statism
2. strong belief in the power of the nation, or nationalism (thus, its goal was for the nation-state as in fascist Italy or Nazi Germany)
3. violent paramilitarism (which are citizen armies)

I think the defining difference in the communist and fascist ideology is their use of violence and their aim of achieving a nation-state.

Remember that the only thing that held the various nations of the Soviet Union together (Russia, Georgia, Ukraine, etc.) was the doctrine of Communism. It didn't seek to have a united nation-state, whereas Mussolini and Hitler wanted that. Their structure of violence was also very different.

It's great to read the rhetoric of Hitler's and Mussolini's speeches, but their is a vast difference between speeches, especially propaganda, and actions.

 

[Dharma Wheel]

In short: it's a gigantic pile of nonsense.

Well, I couldn't have put it better myself. Fascism is a right-wing movement born out of the right-wing ideology of Benito Mussolini.

 

[Dharma Wheel]

A central part of Nazi dogma was that the Jews had created the hateful ideal of equality under the law. To Hitler’s mind, any political society not founded upon a distinct pecking order — with a superman like himself at the top — was the unnatural outcome of Jewish manipulation.

If all Western democracies were therefore suspect, communism — which claimed that all working people were comrades who deserved equal rewards — was doubly damned. The Nazis made much of the fact that Karl Marx was born a Jew, though they neglected to mention that his family had embraced Lutheranism, and that Marx himself often denounced his own race.

Of course Lenin was accused of being a secret Jew who was in on the conspiracy, and the main aim of Judeo-Marxism-Leninism was to unleash the robotic hordes of brainwashed communist warriors against the noble Nordic elite.

This theme played well for Hitler in Germany. Fear of communism helped create support for the Nazi party and its huge corps of professional thugs, who engaged in public brawls with German Marxists whenever they could get the upper hand.

In the 1920s, Hitler said that the Leninists had murdered millions upon millions of their own countrymen, "partly on the scaffold, partly by machine guns and similar means, partly in veritable slaughterhouses." Reaching a hair-raising climax, Hitler bellowed that "we all know that this scourge is approaching, that it is also coming upon Germany."

Namaste Jane!

Wow. I didn't even need to reply due to your excellent post! You get blessings from me.

 

[kitty.lover]

I dont think i agree with the concept of the book; but i know i disagree with jane the bane on many of her points without the right ideals the west would never have gone to war in the first place and the allies were victorious because of the passionate belief in what they were fighting for. How else do you think the British troops fought that war for 7 years (inc war in asia) without doubt or hesitation even when we were losing and some countries continued to procrastinate.

Victory had nothing to do with being western or not because any army will fight unto victory if the cause is just.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I dont think i agree with the concept of the book; but i know i disagree with jane the bane on many of her points without the right ideals the west would never have gone to war in the first place and the allies were victorious because of the passionate belief in what they were fighting for. How else do you think the British troops fought that war for 7 years (inc war in asia) without doubt or hesitation even when we were losing and some countries continued to procrastinate.

Victory had nothing to do with being western or not because any army will fight unto victory if the cause is just.

Eh?
How does that even REMOTELY relate to anything I've written here?

 

[Dharma Wheel]

Eh?
How does that even REMOTELY relate to anything I've written here?

Seconded.

 

[liftmeup]

Don't you reckon the whole dichotomy of right and left is suspect anyway? It's a construct of the mind which steers us away from the real conflicts; not between right and left, but between totalitarianism and liberty, between justice and oppression, between truth and deception, betwen peace and war, between good and evil.

But of course, every political grouping would claim to be the party of liberty, justice, truth, peace and good. Hopefully we do know better than to believe it...

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Don't you reckon the whole dichotomy of right and left is suspect anyway? It's a construct of the mind which steers us away from the real conflicts; not between right and left, but between totalitarianism and liberty, between justice and oppression, between truth and deception, betwen peace and war, between good and evil.

But of course, every political grouping would claim to be the party of liberty, justice, truth, peace and good. Hopefully we do know better than to believe it...

Seconded. Any ideology or religion that can only conceive of its utopia as being erected on the graves of its opponents is a shady business at best.