A Colorado judge finds Trump 'engaged in insurrection,' but keeps him on the ballot

[essentialsaltes]

Again a court cannot legally find a person has engaged in an activity without a trail and a guilty verdict.

A court found that OJ had engaged in the activity of wrongfully dying two people. Despite a trial and a not guilty verdict.
A court found that Giuliani had engaged in the activity of defaming the Georgia election workers.

You're just mistaken.

 

[ralliann]

A court found that OJ had engaged in the activity of wrongfully dying two people. Despite a trial and a not guilty verdict.

He had a trial, under due process first. Donald trump has not.

 

[essentialsaltes]

He had a trial, under due process first. Donald trump has not.

He was found not guilty criminally. Nevertheless, he was held liable for wrongful death in the civil trial.

 

[DaisyDay]

Again a court cannot legally find a person has engaged in an activity without a trail and a guilty verdict.

That is not quite true. Do you remember OJ Simpson? Remember how he was acquitted in criminal court? Found innocent? Nevertheless, when he was sued in civil court by her parents, he was found liable and subject to pay.

The Colorado court did not find him guilty of a crime as he was not on trial here. They found that what his actions amounted to insurrection and therefore the election officer was not allowed to put his name on the Republican primary ballot.

In the democracy of the United States of America people are innocent UNTIL proven guilty.

In a criminal matter, yes; however, Trump was not on trial in this case. Repeat: Trump was NOT the defendant.


ETA: Curses! Ninjaed by @essentialsaltes again!

 

[hislegacy]

A court found that OJ had engaged in the activity of wrongfully dying two people. Despite a trial and a not guilty verdict.
A court found that Giuliani had engaged in the activity of defaming the Georgia election workers.

You're just mistaken.

You are just being hopeful.

Even Bill Barr who openly state he does not want Trump to run and that he thinks Trump was a disaster admits it will not hold up because it prevents Trump from due process.

 

[essentialsaltes]

You are just being hopeful.

I have no great hope that SCOTUS will let this stand. However, your interpretation was still wrong.

 

[hislegacy]

I have no great hope that SCOTUS will let this stand. However, your interpretation was still wrong.

And I believe your is completely wrong and that is why the SCOTUS will overturn it.

 

[ralliann]

He was found not guilty criminally. Nevertheless, he was held liable for wrongful death in the civil trial.

One is criminal, the other civil. The Colorado court has not tried him criminally for the crime he supposedly committed. This is messed up. Let the appeals process take care of it. There is a difference between a civil and criminal case. Looking at the evidence, or facts of the criminal case I am sure was used in the civil trial of oj. Donald trump and the facts of his case was without due process.

 

[essentialsaltes]

And I believe your is completely wrong and that is why the SCOTUS will overturn it.

NO no no no.

You believe the decision is wrong.

Your statement that "a court cannot legally find a person has engaged in an activity without a trail and a guilty verdict."

Is just wrong.

 

[essentialsaltes]

One is criminal, the other civil. The Colorado court has not tried him criminally for the crime he supposedly committed.

Who cares? OJ is innocent innocent innocent! (OK, not guilty)

How could OJ be found liable when he's not guilty?

(Answer: a court can indeed find that a person engaged in an activity without a trial and a guilty verdict.)

 

[ralliann]

NO no no no.

You believe the decision is wrong.

Your statement that "a court cannot legally find a person has engaged in an activity without a trail and a guilty verdict."

Is just wrong.

Criminal vs civil. the criminal case of OJ was with due process period. A much higher bar is needed for this.

 

[ralliann]

Who cares? OJ is innocent innocent innocent! (OK, not guilty)

How could OJ be found liable when he's not guilty?

(Answer: a court can indeed find that a person engaged in an activity without a trial and a guilty verdict.)

Because the bar is lower in a civil case, that is why. You can't just deny due process like that.

 

[comana]

Because the bar is lower in a civil case, that is why. You can't just deny due process like that.

The CO case is also a civil case.

 

[hislegacy]

NO no no no.

You believe the decision is wrong.

Your statement that "a court cannot legally find a person has engaged in an activity without a trail and a guilty verdict."

Is just wrong.

Yes yes yes yes - I believe the decisions is wrong because it prevents due process - Former Attorney General who is no friends of Trump states so.

Do I believe a former Attorney General over a poster on CF -

you betcha.

 

[Brihaha]

Again a court cannot legally find a person has engaged in an activity without a trail and a guilty verdict.

In the democracy of the United States of America people are innocent UNTIL proven guilty.

Mr Trump left a rather long trail of evidence leading to the court's decision. And I don't think you have considered election laws in Colorado. They have criteria for allowing someone on their presidential ballot. The court agreed with the plaintiff attorney's assertion Mr Trump should not be permitted on the ballot.

 

[hislegacy]

Mr Trump left a rather long trail of evidence leading to the court's decision. And I don't think you have considered election laws in Colorado. They have criteria for allowing someone on their presidential ballot. The court agreed with the plaintiff attorney's assertion Mr Trump should not be permitted on the ballot.

I believe Bill Barr knows more about this than ANYONE on this forum.

 

[ralliann]

The CO case is also a civil case.

But there are no "facts" from a criminal trial to find anything. And consider it is a "CRIME" that he is barred from the ballot, he was not charged and tried for that crime, in a criminal suit.. The standards are lower for a civil case, as well as the "punishment". Oj did not get retried for murder and a threat of serving a sentence in prison for that crime. Therefore he did not suffer the same penalty, he would have had with the criminal trial.. It was not on the table.
Lets just leave this case up to the appeals process, to learn what really went down here.

 

[ralliann]

I believe Bill Barr knows more about this than ANYONE on this forum.

I believe the legal scholars rather than anyone on this forum. So why go on about it? it will get settled one way or another.

 

[comana]

But there are no "facts" from a criminal trial to find anything. And consider it is a "CRIME" that he is barred from the ballot, he was not charged and tried for that crime, in a criminal suit.. The standards are lower for a civil case, as well as the "punishment". Oj did not get retried for murder and a threat of serving a sentence in prison for that crime. Therefore he did not suffer the same penalty, he would have had with the criminal trial.. It was not on the table.
Lets just leave this case up to the appeals process, to learn what really went down here.

If the USSC takes this on, it will certainly open a can of worms either way.

 

[ralliann]

If the USSC takes this on, it will certainly open a can of worms either way.

I believe it will make things clearer either way. We are not knowledgeable enough to even know what a can of worms is as of now.