A closer look at "Predestination"

Status
Not open for further replies.

romans6and6

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2008
205
14
✟7,911.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Right, I know what Scripture says. But in your opinion is 'in the flesh' defined as occasionally struggling with sin or is it a lifestyle of sin? Both? Will a person ever give into a single sin after getting saved or are they sinless from that point on?

Yes, one can fall back into sin and commit the works of the flesh. That is why there are constant admonitions in the Scriptures to hold fast to the liberty where Christ has made us free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage, to remain and abide in Christ so that we could bear much fruit, to walk as He walked, to continue in the faith, to pray, to grow and stand in the grace of God, to put on the whole armor of God so that we would be able to stand against the wiles of the devil, etc.

However, John wrote to those believers who were walking in the light and were not deceived and said:

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” (1John 2:1)

Notice that John said “IF” any man sin, not “WHEN” you sin. The modern gospel is a gospel of “when you sin.” There is no expectation of a sinless life in Christ. They think so lightly of sin that they boldly, and some even proudly, say that all are sinners and that we sin every day. “If any man sin,” is speaking of “any” man in general, or to “any” man in relation to the whole body of Christ, and not an expectation that all believers in Christ “will” sin. Notice that in the first part of the verse he uses the words “children” and “ye,” which are both plural, and then he shifts to “any” man, which is singular. “If any man sin,” we can only go back to the Father through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. He is our advocate with the Father, who cleanses us from all sin and from all unrighteousness. The glorious gospel of Jesus Christ is not the one of modern-day Christianity where a constant life of “slipping and falling” is taught and expected. It is a victorious life in Christ.

“Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy.” (Jude 1:24)

“Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar [God’s own special possession] people, zealous of good works.” (Titus 2:14)


“That He might present it [His church] to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:27)

“And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath He reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in His sight - If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…” (Colossians 1:21-23)

“But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22)
 
Upvote 0
Dec 18, 2003
7,915
644
✟11,355.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Esau is described as being the father of the Edomites. So?
Deut 23:7 says, " do not abhor an Edomite for he is your brother."

Though Edom eventually became part of Assyria, there is no Scripture, as far as I can see, which says that God rejected them, nor that all of them rejected God.

I will have to get back to you on this....I will need to do some reasearch to properly respond.





Maybe, I guess that's the debateable part. If someone walks past a church, is attracted by the singing, goes inside, hears the Gospel and accepts Jesus, did they do that because they were exercising the free will which God gave them, or were they there in that place, at that time and were attracted by the singing only because someone somewhere had been praying, and the Spirit moved and made it happen? That debate seems rather academic really - the important thing is that the person was there, heard the Gospel and accepted Jesus.

The thought that came to mind in my own life was a time I was driving back from Dallas to Louisana. It was a very upsetting moment in my life. The girl I wanted to marry had basically turned away from me...we were talking about getting together before I went to her graduation, but then she got raped a few weeks before I got there. I was driving back home telling myself that I would just escape into drugs and the party life...I basically did not want to deal with life anymore.

Anyhow...driving that morning I began debating if I wanted to stop and eat brakfast at McDonald's. I decided to stop. I sat down to eat and an elderly gentleman was looking around then spotted me and beelined straight to me. Handed me tracts and began telling me that the end is near so on and so forth. I brushed it off got in my truck and went home.

When I got home I told my grandmother that this guy had handed me tracts and then she asked for the tracts. She called the guy...turns out...he had walked over a mile that morning to McDonald's. God had woke him up to go speak to someone. All he knew was the person he was supposed to speak to had red hair. (I have very noticable red hair...and the only redhead in Mcdonald's that morning)

God orchestrated that moment! It was not according to our compliance with His will, it was according to our wills being directed by God for His purposes.

You've lost me. :confused: Thomas physically saw and touched Jesus, and believed. None of us have seen him in the flesh; Jesus said "blessed are those who have not seen me but believe anyway." I do not believe that God will condemn people for having doubts, or find it hard to accept Jesus, or understand the theology of salvation, or whatever. The people who, I believe, go to hell are any who have had the Gospel clearly explained to them, who have had a chance to hear about a God who loves them perfectly, unconditionally, eternally, completely, who has reconciled them to himself and will never let them go; and say "no thanks". And what's more, go on saying "no thanks" for the rest of their human lives. If someone completely and deliberately rejects what God has done for them through Jesus and is not interested in eternal life, when they die, God will respect the choice they made and they will not spend eternity with him. If they don't want to be with him, they don't want to be with him.
But it's their/our choice. If it were not, then God would have made us all robots, unable to sin against him, we would all be perfect, all be saved, and Jesus would not have come.
The crux of Christianity is the risen Christ. Not simply believing that God loves us.Now I am not judging what God will do with His creation. I am just saying that Christianity is a defined belief in the risen Christ. A failure to believe Jesus bodily rose from the grave is a failure to truly believe the Gospel and Scripture clearly states that it is our faith in Jesus our risen Lord that saves us. Jesus further illustrates faith in Him where He says that the Heavenly Father is the one who reveals the truth of Jesus to the believer. The Gospel is not intellectually attained to...it is supernaturally revealed.


Maybe, in which case I've probably misunderstood predestination, because I understood it to teach that we are saved because God chose us to be saved - and in fact it doesn't matter what we do in our lives or when we accept Jesus; we will because God has decided we will.

Yes...that is not double predestination. The correct understanding is that we are all bound for hell as fallen man and that God has chosen some of us as objects of His mercy. That salvation is available to all mankind, but that by nature we all reject God and that God chooses to supernaturally betstow His grace on some of us so that we will respond to the Gospel.


We have all sinned, we all need salvation and God has provided it for everyone. Not all will accept the invitation...Christ died for all.

Double Predestination agrees with all of this, but stipulates that outside the supernatural working of God purposefully choosing to bring us to Him, we would all choose sin and death instead of God because of our sinful nature. Total Depravity states that we have no ability to choose God on our own. It is only by the power of God that we choose God.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.