911 Towers Were Exploded Outwards, Not Collapsed

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Again, even if I grant all of this technology as being true and existing before 9/11, you haven't given good reason to believe it happened on 9/11, especially since the initial article you appealed to established that the planes had been hijacked. It makes no sense for the conspiracy at all.

Not to mention, how do you install radio control gear onto an in-service airliner undergoing regular maintenance without anyone noticing. You can't just sneak into the hanger, judo-chop a couple of engineers and plant a box under the wing.

It's a ridiculous theory and again, has zero evidence that it was ever used in 9/11.

 

[Criada]

Mod Hat On​

This thread has been cleaned.
About half the posts have been removed, as they contributed nothing to the topic under discussion, but simply flamed other members or groups.
Please try to be civil!
Thanks

Mod Hat Off​

 

[ManFromUncle]

Not to mention, how do you install radio control gear onto an in-service airliner undergoing regular maintenance without anyone noticing. You can't just sneak into the hanger, judo-chop a couple of engineers and plant a box under the wing.

It's a ridiculous theory and again, has zero evidence that it was ever used in 9/11.

Again we are admittedly into speculation again, which isn't necessary but interesting. All that is necessary to open an investigation is to show Building 7 was clearly a demolition, never hit by a plane or splashed with kerosene (jet fuel) yet it went straight down into its footprint, dead-level, at free-fall speed. Also that Giuliani is guilty of felony destruction of evidence whether you believe the official conspiracy theory or not. That steel could have shown how to make buildings safer for firefighters in the future, even if you believe they "pancaked" (which is something since most of them was shot out sideways two football fields away.)

Once you open an investigation, you sit people down and find out answers to all the rest of the questions, instead of us guessing like this. You sit down Dr. Steve Pieczenik and put him under oath and say, "ok, if you are lying about knowing who did 911, you are in big trouble, it's called perjury." Let him have his say and hang himself if he wants. As a wealthy man, an enterpreneur and a best-selling author, he has plenty to lose if he is sued for slander. Making such charges would be a pretty dumb way for him to get a little attention.

I don't know how the anti-hijack remote technology would be installed. We do know that it is proven and tested, and the government lied about having it. We also know that there is a military version of the Boeing 767, used as a tanker, and that they have been going back and forth to MacDill AFB in FLA for refitting. In 2003 Dov Zakheim sent thirty-two 767s to MacDill, which is also close to Elgin, where his company SPC does lots of business. I just find that interesting because I remember one witness on the news saying "that was not an American Airlines, it didn't have any windows." I was glued to the TV. I remember it clearly.

Oh yes, another thing about Zakheim's SPC (Systems Planning Corporation): it's subsidiary Tridata conducted the official investigation into the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. That means SPC had intimate knowledge of the towers, blueprints, security lay-out, structural supports, everything. The investigating company would know the towers like the back of its hand. Now ain't that a coinky-dinky.

Zakheim is considered by some 911 researchers to be the possible mastermind behind 911. His daddy and granddaddy were Middle East terrorists in Irgun, so he comes from a line which has no problem with using violence to achieve political goals (the invasion of Iraq.)

Wikipedia entry for Dov Zakheim:

"From 1987-2001, Zakheim was CEO of SPC International, a subsidiary of System Planning Corporation, a high-technology analytical firm...He was then appointed to be Undersecretary of Defense and Comptroller from 2001 to 2004 under the George W. Bush administration, and served in this capacity until April 2004.

Here is the TrIdata page from the official SPC website, note the caption at the top, "a small company with a wide wingspan...Dr. Dov Zakheim." Pretty funny, that's all.

And here is the cover page for the official 1993 Trade Center bombing investigation done by Zakheim's Tridata. I'm only doing this so you don't have to take my word on anything.




Remember Zakheim was the CFO of the Pentagon at the time $2.3 trillion was announced missing. If you are incredulous on the amount, your issue is with CBS News which reported it, not me.

Before you say it, you are right, all this proves nothing. That's because you can't prove anything until people are sat down under oath and penalty for perjury. We know Rudy Giuliani committed felony destruction of evidence, because we have the contracts and the signatures under his authority as Mayor of New York. So you sit him down and say, this is open and shut, Rudy, we're going to give you a chance to cut a deal. We know you are low level. Who ordered you to destroy all the steel?

I'll address the many other points made here soon, by Btodd, thanks for the discussion.

"If the American people ever find out what we have done, they will chase us down the streets and lynch us." - George HW Bush Sr. to White House correspondent Sarah McClendon

Main website:
911: Shock and Awe Master Deed. Prosecute Giuliani.

CONTACT YOUR CONGRESSCRITTER

 

[KerrMetric]

There Was No Missing 2.3 Trillion Dollars.

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

Now, pay attention .....

 

[spiritman1]

Seriously if your in disagreement with the 911 truthers, just the facts alone would or should make you want a new investigation, as to why building 7 fell into a hole, otherwise they need to remove all sources of potential fires from buildings, such as coffee makers, and toaster ovens....if scattered fires can bring 42 floor skyscappers down, until then you should not feel safe going into any of these structures, until they find what can cause grand scale symmetrical universal structure failure, even on floors and sides not even touched by fire. I would want part of the investigation concentrated on identifying the firemen filmed running from building seven and telling people cant back this building "is coming down" its "gonna blow" and questioning these guys, has this ever been done as to what fire company these guys are from?

 

[Btodd]

Seriously if your in disagreement with the 911 truthers, just the facts alone would or should make you want a new investigation, as to why building 7 fell into a hole, otherwise they need to remove all sources of potential fires from buildings, such as coffee makers, and toaster ovens....if scattered fires can bring 42 floor skyscappers down, until then you should not feel safe going into any of these structures, until they find what can cause grand scale symmetrical universal structure failure, even on floors and sides not even touched by fire. I would want part of the investigation concentrated on identifying the firemen filmed running from building seven and telling people cant back this building "is coming down" its "gonna blow" and questioning these guys, has this ever been done as to what fire company these guys are from?

'Fire company'? The NY Fire Department. They had announced, hourse before, that the building was unstable. They evacuated the entire building of firefighters for their safety and let the fires rage on. There was a giant kink in the building's structure that you can see well before collapse. It was gonna come down. And despite the video Truthers will show you, the penthouse collapses into the building several seconds before the building comes down...the structure is failing well before Truthers start the video clock.

Again, I challenge you to make sense of this in any conspiratorial way whatsoever. What did it do, exactly? Destroy computer files by blowing up a building? And why do you think they put fireproofing on steel in the first place? For fun?

Let's say we found it it HAD been demolished. Just for the sake of argument. What would that mean? That the Twin Towers must have been? Of course not. They look NOTHING like WTC7, so again...make sense of this in light of a supposed conspiracy, not just go, 'That's weird, it must mean there's a conspiracy!'.


Btodd

 

[spiritman1]

regardless of what you think may have been responsible for buildings 7 collapse, It should of had a thorough investigation for its obvious there was serious failure, and buildings built in the future need to have changes made so this same kind of destruction doesn't happen in the future.........And what makes firemen run out of a building telling people its "GONNA BLOW"......I think if you were running from a building with knowledge its appearently going to collapse, yelling its "gonna blow" really doesn't make sense unless you know that an explosion is about to acure......then you run out and declare ITS GONNA BLOW! get back!

 

[Btodd]

regardless of what you think may have been responsible for buildings 7 collapse, It should of had a thorough investigation for its obvious there was serious failure, and buildings built in the future need to have changes made so this same kind of destruction doesn't happen in the future

Actually, I think this is addressed not only by the NIST report, but subsequent peer-reviewed papers in other journals. Taking what we learned from it and pointing out how designs could be improved. If you want me to look for some of those and post them for you, then let me know.

.........And what makes firemen run out of a building telling people its "GONNA BLOW"......I think if you were running from a building with knowledge its appearently going to collapse, yelling its "gonna blow" really doesn't make sense unless you know that an explosion is about to acure......then you run out and declare ITS GONNA BLOW! get back!

Actually, the firefighters had been evacuated hours before the building fell (and had announced that they expected it to fall, that's why they were pulled from the building, to prevent any further loss of life)...so there is no video of someone 'running out of the building', saying it's gonna blow.

You will find video of firefighters saying that it's about to fall (but not as they're 'running out of the building'). As to your final point, find any video of WTC7 that you want, and point out the 'explosion' you just referred to. There isn't even a single ONE, let alone a succession of them.

This makes zero sense for the conspiracy, and nobody yet has given me reason to think otherwise.


Btodd

 

[KerrMetric]

You can sum this entire conspiracy theory up by the words - It is nothing but argument from (amateur) personal incredulity.

 

[ManFromUncle]

Actually, the firefighters had been evacuated hours before the building fell (and had announced that they expected it to fall, that's why they were pulled from the building, to prevent any further loss of life)...so there is no video of someone 'running out of the building', saying it's gonna blow.

You will find video of firefighters saying that it's about to fall (but not as they're 'running out of the building'). As to your final point, find any video of WTC7 that you want, and point out the 'explosion' you just referred to. There isn't even a single ONE, let alone a succession of them.

This makes zero sense for the conspiracy, and nobody yet has given me reason to think otherwise.

Btodd

Why wouldn't they expect it to come down? It was 3:30 pm and they already saw the twin towers come straight down 5 hours ago, now anything could happen. Further, Rudy Giuliani had been warned by someone in a phone call, it was never determined who, that the South Tower was going to fall so he could skeedaddle up Vessey Street with his tail between his legs. Obviously someone was in the know, and maybe Rudy didn't think about just his own rear after all, and told the firefighters about WTC7. Let's put him on the stand and ask him, and ask lot of other things, like who told him to ship the steel to China to be melted. Too bad he didn't tell anyone in the South Tower.

Who was in WTC7? Just Rudy's Emergency Command Bunker, a hardened floor, and included the US Secret Service, the SEC, CIA, FBI, and Dept. of Defense. What just happened to be destroyed in the process as SEC were files for investigations of Enron and Worldcom, which never got off the ground again. It is speculated (repeat, speculated) that wtc7 was the command center for the 911 operation so it had to come down.

You seem fixated on hearing explosions, but there is no law that says that is how all demolitions work, thermite sparks and melts steel, doesn't explode, but as long as you ask, yes, there was a very credible witness to explosions, the chief of NYC Emergency Response, who died last year at a seemingly robust 53, CAUSE STILL UNKNOWN. He was the last man out of WTC 7 and the command bunker. You can't even go to NYC and get the coroner's report, how unusual is that? Now there is this new evidence of foul play. A film maker hired a private investigator to look into the records. The investigator returned his money and told him "never contact me again." Jennings gave this interview after 911.

YouTube - ‪Barry Jennings: WTC 7 (Explosions) Interview‬‏

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

Hey, that Rudy fellow is not me, OK?

 

[Btodd]

Why wouldn't they expect it to come down?

Exactly, especially since firefighters had been in the building and not only seen the large portion out of the building created by debris from the collapsing towers, but also heard the type of creaking associated with an unstable structure. They are, after all...firefighters. So once they determined that it was already unstable, they pulled the entire group from the building and let the fires rage, unfought. It's that simple.

Take a look at the large kink in the building, long before it collapses. It's well-documented, and is not the result of some 'demolition'.

It was 3:30 pm and they already saw the twin towers come straight down 5 hours ago, now anything could happen. Further, Rudy Giuliani had been warned by someone in a phone call, it was never determined who, that the South Tower was going to fall so he could skeedaddle up Vessey Street with his tail between his legs. Obviously someone was in the know, and maybe Rudy didn't think about just his own rear after all, and told the firefighters about WTC7. Let's put him on the stand and ask him, and ask lot of other things, like who told him to ship the steel to China to be melted. Too bad he didn't tell anyone in the South Tower.

More speculation about a sinister plot, and it's not convincing, nor do you have any explanation for the collapses yet (that's what my previous, lengthy posts specifically dealt with, in detail). Not to mention that oldbetang already dealt with your 'shipped all the steel straight to China' claim.

Who was in WTC7? Just Rudy's Emergency Command Bunker, a hardened floor, and included the US Secret Service, the SEC, CIA, FBI, and Dept. of Defense. What just happened to be destroyed in the process as SEC were files for investigations of Enron and Worldcom, which never got off the ground again. It is speculated (repeat, speculated) that wtc7 was the command center for the 911 operation so it had to come down.

1. Any files that you think needed to be destroyed could have easily been accomplished without blowing up a building. This is merely another example where the conspiracy has to get far more complex and convoluted than the simple explanation. And you're merely speculating.

2. Command center? For what, the remote-controlled planes? The demolitions team, who were setting off mysteriously quiet bombs and secret thermite cutter devices from their control panel? More wild speculation that is more complex and convoluted than the real explanation, and not a shred of evidence to support it. You don't just get to make this up as you go along.

You seem fixated on hearing explosions, but there is no law that says that is how all demolitions work

And you don't get to appeal to some magic method simply to keep perpetuating the conclusion. There has to be a realistic mechanism for silently demolishing buildings, and that's what my previous, lengthy posts addressed in detail. You didn't even bother to touch them, and just repeated the claim again. It's an unfounded claim, and is also known as the fallacy of special pleading.

thermite sparks and melts steel, doesn't explode, but as long as you ask, yes, there was a very credible witness to explosions, the chief of NYC Emergency Response, who died last year at a seemingly robust 53, CAUSE STILL UNKNOWN. He was the last man out of WTC 7 and the command bunker. You can't even go to NYC and get the coroner's report, how unusual is that? Now there is this new evidence of foul play. A film maker hired a private investigator to look into the records. The investigator returned his money and told him "never contact me again." Jennings gave this interview after 911.

Thermite doesn't do a single thing in regard to demolitions that you've tried to attribute to it. That stuff was covered in my previous posts, and you just skipped over them and are repeating false claims again. What you attribute to thermite is something it does not do.

But just to hedge your bet, you appeal to explosions, too. But this also fails. Any explosion powerful enough to sever columns is going to be heard far outside the building, not merely by Barry Jennings, and not just a few explosions spread out over a series of hours, but a quick succession of them that removes the resistance right before collapse. They would be seen as well as heard, outside the building, because of what they have to do...sever vertical columns.

I'm familiar with Jennings' story, and he's confused about what happened (understandable, given the circumstances), and his testimony is contradicted by Hess, who was with him when this happened. Barry talks about being 'blown across the room', but if it were a demolitions charge, he would have been killed instantly. As I remember, the force he's referring to was from a collapsing elevator down the shaft, but we can go back and look, if you like.

As for his 'mysterious death', you should know that the Loose Change guys tried to get him involved in their last film, Loose Change Final Cut, and he finally refused after stating that they were trying to twist his story (something they're notorious for doing).

He later died, and as far as I know, the family did not request an autopsy. At any rate, he had been saying the same things for years, and had even backed off the conclusions you're trying to draw (hence his spat with the Loose Change guys), so there is no need to appeal to his death as some sinister murder, several years after he had already said those things. He had shrunk from the supposed spotlight, and was not presenting any new information to anyone.

As always, you prefer wild speculation to actual fact. I'm still waiting on a mechanism that explains the collapses of the towers, which I went into detail about in the previous posts.

As for the further point about an investigator telling this supposed figure to 'never contact him again', it may have been his own distaste for another conspiracist trying to abuse the story for their own purposes. The Jennings family had been hounded by conspiracists, which also helps to explain why they didn't want any more hassle concerning his death, and chose to keep it private instead of dealing with more people eager to hijack his life for their own cause.


Btodd

 

[ManFromUncle]

Exactly, especially since firefighters had been in the building and not only seen the large portion out of the building created by debris from the collapsing towers, but also heard the type of creaking associated with an unstable structure. They are, after all...firefighters. So once they determined that it was already unstable, they pulled the entire group from the building and let the fires rage, unfought. It's that simple.

Take a look at the large kink in the building, long before it collapses. It's well-documented, and is not the result of some 'demolition'.

More speculation about a sinister plot, and it's not convincing, nor do you have any explanation for the collapses yet (that's what my previous, lengthy posts specifically dealt with, in detail). Not to mention that oldbetang already dealt with your 'shipped all the steel straight to China' claim.

1. Any files that you think needed to be destroyed could have easily been accomplished without blowing up a building. This is merely another example where the conspiracy has to get far more complex and convoluted than the simple explanation. And you're merely speculating.

2. Command center? For what, the remote-controlled planes? The demolitions team, who were setting off mysteriously quiet bombs and secret thermite cutter devices from their control panel? More wild speculation that is more complex and convoluted than the real explanation, and not a shred of evidence to support it. You don't just get to make this up as you go along.

And you don't get to appeal to some magic method simply to keep perpetuating the conclusion. There has to be a realistic mechanism for silently demolishing buildings, and that's what my previous, lengthy posts addressed in detail. You didn't even bother to touch them, and just repeated the claim again. It's an unfounded claim, and is also known as the fallacy of special pleading.

Thermite doesn't do a single thing in regard to demolitions that you've tried to attribute to it. That stuff was covered in my previous posts, and you just skipped over them and are repeating false claims again. What you attribute to thermite is something it does not do.

But just to hedge your bet, you appeal to explosions, too. But this also fails. Any explosion powerful enough to sever columns is going to be heard far outside the building, not merely by Barry Jennings, and not just a few explosions spread out over a series of hours, but a quick succession of them that removes the resistance right before collapse. They would be seen as well as heard, outside the building, because of what they have to do...sever vertical columns.

I'm familiar with Jennings' story, and he's confused about what happened (understandable, given the circumstances), and his testimony is contradicted by Hess, who was with him when this happened. Barry talks about being 'blown across the room', but if it were a demolitions charge, he would have been killed instantly. As I remember, the force he's referring to was from a collapsing elevator down the shaft, but we can go back and look, if you like.

As for his 'mysterious death', you should know that the Loose Change guys tried to get him involved in their last film, Loose Change Final Cut, and he finally refused after stating that they were trying to twist his story (something they're notorious for doing).

He later died, and as far as I know, the family did not request an autopsy. At any rate, he had been saying the same things for years, and had even backed off the conclusions you're trying to draw (hence his spat with the Loose Change guys), so there is no need to appeal to his death as some sinister murder, several years after he had already said those things. He had shrunk from the supposed spotlight, and was not presenting any new information to anyone.

As always, you prefer wild speculation to actual fact. I'm still waiting on a mechanism that explains the collapses of the towers, which I went into detail about in the previous posts.

As for the further point about an investigator telling this supposed figure to 'never contact him again', it may have been his own distaste for another conspiracist trying to abuse the story for their own purposes. The Jennings family had been hounded by conspiracists, which also helps to explain why they didn't want any more hassle concerning his death, and chose to keep it private instead of dealing with more people eager to hijack his life for their own cause.

Btodd

There you go again, the usual pattern of tossing out anything you don't have an answer for as having been "dealt with" (without saying how,) playing dumb about how thermite works even though it has been presented to you over and over, and saying any witnesses who upset your Official Conspiracy Theory were "confused," like Barry Jennings and firefighter from the North Tower John Schroeder. What would they know? They were both nearly killed but you sitting at your computer would know more. Then back to a healthy dose of good old ad hominem - (WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG?) - like attacking motivations of "conspiracist" trying to abuse the story "for their own purposes." Round it off with emotion-laden adjectives like "wild speculation." Rinse, repeat.

Many observers of this thread already dismissed you on grounds like these, and on the basis of the above you can be deemed not worth answering.

For everyone else, note: the purpose of disinformation is to keep things from moving forward, as in, to action. So if these tactics offend you, the best thing you can do is harness that energy and join the 1500 licensed Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth in their 2011 Justice Campaign. Note the things he keeps trying to pull you away from: Giuliani's destruction of evidence (which was not "dealt with," just say it was, it's a punt,) the names of the suspected conspirators (because when you put real faces on it people get mad, and they are not untouchable. Who in a million years ever thought Mubarek in Egypt would be facing war crimes charges in his own country? The Bible teaches us the mighty can fall.)

Initiation of a prosecution requires only sufficient evidence of wrongdoing, not a complete theory of the crime. Then the jury decides what is true.

The fact is that one honest and patriotic county DA could re-open the whole case, by indicting Giuliani for felony destruction of evidence. The part of the law which allows him/her to do this is called the "effects doctrine." This allows a prosecutor in one jurisdiction to file charges for a crime which happened in another jurisdiction, if that crime harmed someone in his own jurisdiction. Basically it's used if say, I hold up a liquor store in Texas and shoot a tourist from Oklahoma, the DA in Oklahoma can extradite me. Almost every state and every county has its soldiers who have been killed in Iraq, which Bush linked directly to 911 ("they brought war to our shores, and war is what they got" referring to Iraq, not Afghanistan.) Therefore if it was based on the big lie of 911, any prosecutor can go after Rudy for destruction of the evidence which would have answered all the questions. Also the 3,000 tower victims probably have relatives in every state in the union.

Join the 1500 Architects and Engineers Facebook drive to make 2011 the Year of Truth. This 9/11/2011 is planned to be the biggest year yet, looked at what happened in L.A. just last year:

YouTube - ‪9-11 Truth makes HUGE appearance at Los Angeles Anti-War March‬‏

They need volunteers, and have a to-do list for citizens here. Put Rudy Giuliani on the stand, let him cut a deal, and say "Now Rudy, you are looking at 15 years for felony destruction of evidence in a capital crime. We know you were only low-level. Who ordered you to ship the steel to China to be melted?"

It is also very important to write to your congressman and demand he open a hearing for former Assistant Deputy Secretary of State Dr. Steve Pieczenik to testify, and to hound him at public meetings on 911 Truth. That is the only way these critters do anything, or resign like they should and make way for someone who will.

CONTACT CONGRESS

I personally think Christians will be a critical part of the Truth Movment, and you can now join Christians for 911 Truth here. The good Dr. David Ray Griffin, distinguished theologian who endures death threats every day for speaking truth and has been attacked in these pages by anonymous posters who say "he's just lying," has given us a guide with "The Christian Faith and the Truth behind 9/11." (Free study guide for individual or group use here.)

If you are poor, it is because of 911. The 911 Wars have cost every family at the very least $50,000. That is your children's education or your mortgage pay-off. It has cost us our rights. But it has made some people very, very rich. It has also fulfilled certain foreign policy agendas not in America's best interests: Project for a New American Century, Bush mafiosi Richard Perle's and Douglas Feith.

These are the things posters who want to keep going in circles about thermite don't want you to think about.

SUSPECTS: WhoDidIt.org

911 Survivor Families Call for Justice, TV Ad NOW running in NYC
YouTube - ‪Help Put This Ad On Air - Go to BuildingWhat.org‬‏

​

MEMBER, PATRIOTS QUESTION 911: Col. George Nelson, MBA, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. Graduate, U.S. Air Force War College. 34-year Air Force career. Licensed commercial pilot. Licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic:

"In all my years of direct and indirect participation, I never witnessed nor even heard of an aircraft loss, where the wreckage was accessible, that prevented investigators from finding enough hard evidence to positively identify the make, model, and specific registration number of the aircraft -- and in most cases the precise cause of the accident."

-----------------------------------------------

"If the American people ever find out what we have done, they will chase us down the streets and lynch us." - George HW Bush Sr. to White House correspondent Sarah McClendon

Main website:
911: Shock and Awe Master Deed. Prosecute Giuliani.

"War is a Racket," Major General Smedley D. Butler, double Medal of Honor

[SIZE=+1]
[/SIZE]

 

[Btodd]

ManFromUncle...is something wrong? You seem angry.

There you go again, the usual pattern of tossing out anything you don't have an answer for as having been "dealt with" (without saying how,)

I'm the only one that has articulated a collapse mechanism, and you've been unable to say any more than 'I don't know', when asked about how your explosions were so quiet, or on any of the specifics about thermite. You keep implying that it does things it cannot do, and when pressed on it, you get testy and start posting the same links again. I can't help it if you don't know your stuff.

playing dumb about how thermite works even though it has been presented to you over and over

You were just caught red-handed on this, after having multiple pertinent questions put to you about how it works, and you punted all of them with 'I don't know', and then got aggressive about the video you had posted, saying 'if you have to post it again, you're gonna vomit'...and then it turns out that your video had NOTHING to do with thermite, and the demolitions guy was talking about shape charges, hahahaha. The video starts with beams that were cut during cleanup (which I posted pictures of), and the makers expect us to believe it was done before the collapse. Extremely dishonest.

You literally didn't even know what your own video was talking about! It gave me a good chuckle though, so thank you. I suggest you learn the difference between thermite and shape charges before taking on your next opponent.

and saying any witnesses who upset your Official Conspiracy Theory were "confused," like Barry Jennings and firefighter from the North Tower John Schroeder. What would they know? They were both nearly killed but you sitting at your computer would know more.

I offered to go through their testimony with you, and compare it to that of people who were with them. Care to do that, or is your anger supposed to count as an argument? As usual, you will accept the word of one person that scratches your itch, to the exclusion of hundreds that do not. You do this not only with the testimonies, but with the science as well (anyone call a theologian to discuss the collapses?).

Many observers of this thread already dismissed you on grounds like these, and on the basis of the above you can be deemed not worth answering.

Oh, stop acting like you would answer questions, if only they were put the right way. You won't answer anything at all, which you've shown over and over here.

*snips the rest of your attempt to move over into politics to escape the miserable responses to questions about thermite and explosions, and notes that you posted the AE911Truth commercial for the nth time. Peer-reviewed science papers vs. a commercial. Thanks for playing.*


Btodd

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Join the 1500 Architects and Engineers Facebook drive to make 2011 the Year of Truth. This 9/11/2011 is planned to be the biggest year yet, looked at what happened in L.A. just last year:

I love this "1500 licensed Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth" stuff - it's the greatest appeal to suppsoed authority the internet has seen in years.

I strongly urge people to check it out - and die laughing when you see landscape architects and people with geography degrees slotted into their "licensed proessionals" section.

Maybe I should ask my landscaper to structurally certify my house - I'm sure he knows plenty about how to make sure buildings don't collapse.

 

[ManFromUncle]

ManFromUncle...is something wrong? You seem angry.
--snip-
I'm the only one that has articulated a collapse mechanism, and you've been unable to say any more than 'I don't know', when asked about how your explosions were so quiet, or on any of the specifics about thermite. You keep implying that it does things it cannot do, and when pressed on it, you get testy and start posting the same links again. I can't help it if you don't know your stuff

You were just caught red-handed on this, after having multiple pertinent questions put to you about how it works, and you punted all of them with 'I don't know', and then got aggressive about the video you had posted, saying 'if you have to post it again, you're gonna vomit'...and then it turns out that your video had NOTHING to do with thermite, and the demolitions guy was talking about shape charges, hahahaha. The video starts with beams that were cut during cleanup (which I posted pictures of), and the makers expect us to believe it was done before the collapse. Extremely dishonest.

You literally didn't even know what your own video was talking about! It gave me a good chuckle though, so thank you. I suggest you learn the difference between thermite and shape charges before taking on your next opponent.


Btodd

Sure, mass murder makes me a little angry. Doesn't it you? You say you are having a pretty good time laughing. But no one is laughing. This shows where you are coming from, and I hope it is making folks out there angry enough to join and act.

You keep asking "what is the mechanism and exactly how does thermite work?' while ignoring Building 7, Hani Hanjour's impossible Blue Angels dive into the Pentagon, the molten steel, Rudy Giulian's destruction of the evidence, the complex flight paths, and Pentagon Comptroller Dov Zakheim's ownership of the technology by which to seize control of commercial hijacked aircraft from the ground, which is of course based on old technology - remote control - which you see over the skies of Afghanistan every day, in Predator drones.

It's a bit like a used car salesman who says "Pay no attention to that oil puddle under the car, sonny. If you can't tell me how an engine runs and know all the parts, then what do you know? Don't look over there look over here, boy I'm talkin' to you..."

Well sir, I'll tell ya what. Number one, you are right, I know don't know nothing about car engines. Number two, I ain't as dumb as I look.

It's pretty clear in the video that it is showing how linear shaped thermite charges could be used in a demolition.

Here is the original video:

YouTube - ‪9/11 CONSPIRACY:WERE THERMITE SHAPE CHARGES USED AT THE WTC?‬‏

But if that's not clear enough for you, here's just one patent, I'm sure the military doesn't give out its best recipes.

Patent number 7555986, "thermite charge"

The present invention provides for cutting operations using linear thermite charges; the charges cut one dimensional or two dimensional geometric shapes; the invention is useful for structure entry or demolition.

That's just one example which came up after about 30 seconds of research, pinned to the top of the page. Since you kept asking the question, I know you saw it too. Why didn't you post it instead of wasting all these folks' time?

Remember now, thermite burns and melts steel, it doesn't explode. This video shows how the thermite reaction works, in a field demonstration (kids don't try this at home!)

YouTube - ‪Thermite vs. Car‬‏

And were these beams cut neatly "during clean-up?" Oh yes, workmen cut them while they were on the ground then perched them carefully on the roof for the photo.

Now what about that oil puddle under this "beauty" of a used car, the Official Story of 911, that you are trying to sell us? Psst! Building 7!


Now folks, this is how disinfo works, and there is good reason for it. There is a good reason for trying to keep pushing these posts back where no one will see them. Murdering 3,000 Americans in cold blood is no small thing, despite some folks treating this like a game and getting a good "laugh" out of the game. Everyone is "an opponent." This is the mindset of the disinfo agent. The truth doesn't matter.

But this is dead serious. Those who jumped out those windows can't speak for themselves, or ask questions. Only the living can. (I will never forget that day.) Take a moment to do the exact opposite of what the disinfo agents want you to do. They want you to sit around and scratch your heads. Take the first step to getting involved in the truth of 911. It is necessary to keep re-posting it because they keep trying to hide it.

Join the 1500 licensed Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth in their 2011 Justice Campaign. Initiation of a prosecution requires only sufficient evidence of wrongdoing, not a complete theory of the crime.

It bears repeating: one honest and patriotic county DA could re-open the whole case, by indicting Giuliani for felony destruction of evidence. The part of the law which allows him/her to do this is called the "effects doctrine." This allows a prosecutor in one jurisdiction to file charges for a crime which happened in another jurisdiction, if that crime harmed someone in his own jurisdiction. Basically it's used if say, I hold up a liquor store in Texas and shoot a tourist from Oklahoma, the DA in Oklahoma can extradite me. Almost every state and every county has its soldiers who have been killed in Iraq, which Bush linked directly to 911 ("they brought war to our shores, and war is what they got" referring to Iraq, not Afghanistan.)

Therefore if it was based on the big lie of 911, any prosecutor can go after Rudy for destruction of the evidence which would have answered all the questions. Also the 3,000 tower victims probably have relatives in every state in the union.

This 9/11 in 2011 is planned to be the biggest yet, there will be actions in your area. Here is what happened in L.A. just last year:

YouTube - ‪9-11 Truth makes HUGE appearance at Los Angeles Anti-War March‬‏

They need volunteers, and have a to-do list for citizens here. Put Rudy Giuliani on the stand, let him cut a deal, and say "Now Rudy, you are looking at 15 years for felony destruction of evidence in a capital crime. We know you were only low-level. Who ordered you to ship the steel to China to be melted?"

It is also very important to write to your congressman and demand he open a hearing for former Assistant Deputy Secretary of State Dr. Steve Pieczenik to testify, and to hound him at public meetings on 911 Truth. That is the only way these critters do anything, or resign like they should and make way for someone who will.

CONTACT CONGRESS

Christians will be a critical part of the Truth Movment, and you can now join Christians for 911 Truth here. The good Dr. David Ray Griffin, distinguished theologian who has been attacked in these pages as "just a liar" has given us a guide with "The Christian Faith and the Truth behind 9/11." (Free study guide for individual or group use here.)

Remember, if you are poor, it is because of 911. The 911 Wars have cost every family at the very least $50,000. That is your children's education or your mortgage pay-off. It has cost us our rights. But it has made some people very, very rich. It has also fulfilled certain foreign policy agendas not in America's best interests: Project for a New American Century, Bush mafiosi Richard Perle's and Douglas Feith.

These are the things posters who want to keep going in circles about thermite don't want you to think about.

SUSPECTS: WhoDidIt.org

911 Survivor Families Call for Justice, TV Ad NOW running in NYC
YouTube - ‪Help Put This Ad On Air - Go to BuildingWhat.org‬‏

​

MEMBER, PATRIOTS QUESTION 911: Col. George Nelson, MBA, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. Graduate, U.S. Air Force War College. 34-year Air Force career. Licensed commercial pilot. Licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic:

"In all my years of direct and indirect participation, I never witnessed nor even heard of an aircraft loss, where the wreckage was accessible, that prevented investigators from finding enough hard evidence to positively identify the make, model, and specific registration number of the aircraft -- and in most cases the precise cause of the accident."

-----------------------------------------------

"If the American people ever find out what we have done, they will chase us down the streets and lynch us." - George HW Bush Sr. to White House correspondent Sarah McClendon

Main website:
911: Shock and Awe Master Deed. Prosecute Giuliani.

"War is a Racket," Major General Smedley D. Butler, double Medal of Honor

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[Btodd]

Sure, mass murder makes me a little angry. Doesn't it you? You say you are having a pretty good time laughing. But no one is laughing. This shows where you are coming from, and I hope it is making folks out there angry enough to join and act.

Oh, let's be clear. I'm laughing at you, and nothing more. You throw stuff out there, fully certain that it's a smoking gun, and then show that you don't even understand the content of what you posted.

You keep asking "what is the mechanism and exactly how does thermite work?' while ignoring Building 7,

Yes, that's exactly what I keep asking. Because you proposed it, and it doesn't explain what happened. Each time I press you on the point, you try to change the subject. You don't get to throw out pure speculation, and then just move to something else when you get called on it.

The title of this thread is '911 Towers Were Exploded Outwards, Not Collapsed'. You failed to present any evidence for explosions, even after stating that they were '5 times the force of demolitions'. You can't produce even a normal explosive sound to account for the claim.

And somewhere along the line, you've mixed in thermite, while stating in this very post, that thermite doesn't explode. So, did the buildings explode outward, or did they collapse? You don't get to jump around from one nonsense explanation to another, because I'm going to call you on it.

Hani Hanjour's impossible Blue Angels dive into the Pentagon

Which has been re-created on simulator by people with less flight experience than Hani Hanjour. It was a turn-and-descent, and only makes sense in light of the fact that the hijackers were using GPS equipment (having turned off the transponders) to find their target, and Flight 77 came into the Pentagon too high...therefore, they circled around and descended in order to hit it.

What's your story? The remote-control pilot threw in a turn-and-descent to 'make it look like Hani Hanjour overshot the target'? Every time you disagree with what happened, you are forced to speculate on much more absurd explanations. We're now up to remote-controlled aircraft, a command bunker in WTC7, thermite + shape charge demolitions with no sound, and...what next? Are you ready to throw out 'voice morphing' yet, or are you saving it for later? There's no end to how convoluted and complex your explanations get to be, yet...you don't have to provide any actual evidence that they happened. Good luck with that.

the molten steel

You've been repeatedly called out on this claim, and repeating the claim only makes you look dishonest.

It's pretty clear in the video that it is showing how linear shaped thermite charges could be used in a demolition.

Wow. Watch the video. What you're watching is a video talking about standard demolitions using shaped charges, and the person doing the voice-over says, 'WAS thermite used with shape charges?'. The demolition guy isn't talking about thermite at all, and the apparatus he's showing has nothing to do with thermite, either. Your source here has literally taken a real demolitions instructional video, edited it down to a guy talking about real demolitions, and had the voice-over person imply that it's talking about thermite. Care to show me where the thermite is in that device he's pointing to? It's a standard shape charge, and instead of admitting that you didn't have a clue what you were talking about, you're gonna go Sarah Palin and just pretend you're still right, with a straight face.

Not to mention that you continue to post a video that makes a blatantly false claim about the beams shown at the beginning. You, and everyone here, has seen the photos of those being cut with an oxyacetylene torch during cleanup, and each time you continue to post it to imply that it was done before collapse by 'thermite', you are being dishonest. Admit when you're wrong.

I will leave the video in here, so people can see again that it has nothing to do with thermite, other than the voice-over person implying such. They dishonestly hijacked a real video, and are pretending it says something else.

YouTube - ‪9/11 CONSPIRACY:WERE THERMITE SHAPE CHARGES USED AT THE WTC?‬‏

But if that's not clear enough for you, here's just one patent, I'm sure the military doesn't give out its best recipes.

1. You don't have to have a working apparatus to get a patent. There are patents for time machines.

2. The patent is from 2006.

3. 'I'm sure the military doesn't give out its best recipes' is the fallacy of special pleading, and simply another assumption that you must throw out there, because you don't have solid evidence for your conclusion...so you expect bare speculation to pass as an argument. Good luck.

Remember now, thermite burns and melts steel, it doesn't explode. This video shows how the thermite reaction works, in a field demonstration (kids don't try this at home!)

YouTube - ‪Thermite vs. Car‬‏

I love that you posted that video. Look at how much thermite it took to do even that, and look at the hole it created. Is it a 'cut' piece of steel? No. It looks like I described earlier...like it was burned through, using gravity. What it burned through there was nothing compared to the thickness of the beams you're appealing to, and thermite would have to burn sideways through them to boot...on hundreds of floors, placed by every single column in the building. No wonder you don't want to face questions about how all this was installed, even if you could make a case for it to work. It's beyond absurd, but you've staked out your conclusion in advance (the gub'ment done it), and have no choice but to keep proposing more and more absurd ways in which they 'must have' carried it out.

Now folks, this is how disinfo works

Nice little cult-like buzzword...'disinfo'. Why not just appeal to Satan being responsible for my words here? I mean, if you're gonna go that route, go hog-wild, man. Disinfo = anything that counters my silly conspiracy theory.

This is the mindset of the disinfo agent.

Ooh, now it's disinfo AGENT! That's more like it!

*snip*

Oh, look. You posted the same stuff again, right on cue. Look everybody, it's a commercial! Just in case you didn't want to read any science papers, or think about this too deeply, we've made a commercial!

What's next, a music video? Is Mos' Def gonna rap about thermite, so we can all dance our way to the conclusion?


Btodd

 

[Btodd]

By the way, this is a nice little video from National Geographic about the demolitions hypothesis...with both sides being presented as well. You get to see Richard Gage, head of 'AE911Truth', an architect...try to tell demolition experts how a demolition must have happened.

Notice how often he appeals to, 'but this wasn't a standard demolition, this was very special'...the definition of special pleading, to get around the contradictions his theory requires (forceful explosions with no sound, and properties of 'nanothermite' that it does not have).

Just the mere pointing out what has to be done in order to set this type of operation up is extremely illuminating, given what people who speak of demolitions, or thermite...would have us believe.

YouTube - ‪National Geographic Science & Conspiracy Part 4‬‏

 

[USincognito]

Many observers of this thread already dismissed you on grounds like these, and on the basis of the above you can be deemed not worth answering.

{snip wall of spam}

Pure fantasy on your part. The only people who don't see that Btodd and others have been demolishing Toofer claims with actual facts are you and your socks.

It's pretty clear in the video that it is showing how linear shaped thermite charges could be used in a demolition.

{snip wall of spam}

And it's even more clear that anyone who uses a phrase like "linear shaped thermite charges" doesn't know anything about explosives or thermite.