Escaping the Great Tribulation?

Endtime Survivors · Aug 24, 2016

Douggg said:
When you indicate the word "special" what you are really meaning is "better than".

I think some people apply that particular interpretation, but I think the context here is different. I don't believe you're suggesting the Jews are "special" in that they are better, but you are definitely suggesting that they are different.

Douggg said:
If you want to attack the idea that Jews are saved by virtue of being Jews - then sure do that battle - but not here.

It's interesting that you see it as "attacking" for me to challenge the idea that Jews are saved by virtue of being Jews. Why should you see it as an attack for me to say that such a notion is inconsistent with what Jesus taught?

Douggg said:
This forum is about eschatology, not about salvation as salvation is a given for everyone participating here.

Actually, I didn't make this is an issue about the Jews. The pre-tribbers did. Remember all that stuff you keep saying about how the Jews make an appearance all throughout the Bible? Both you and straightshot have claimed that prophecy from Matthew 24 and the Great Tribulation are for the Jews. I am responding to those arguments with rebuttals about how the Jews are neither special, better, nor different from Christians regarding the spiritual lessons behind Jesus' teachings, including prophecies about his return. But, when I make those arguments, you claim that I'm preaching at you, that I'm attempting to frustrate God's plans regarding the Jews, that I'm off topic etc; just about anything except a response to the evidence I've listed.

Douggg said:
They are a chosen people, that God's power can be exhibited for the rest of the world to believe in Him - but that does not equate to any Jew being saved on the premise of being a Jew. Christians are the called and chosen unto salvation.

When you say they are "chosen people" what does that mean? You go on to say that Christians are the "called and chosen". How is the Jew's "chosen" different from the Christian's "chosen"? If you make the argument that we will not be around for the Great Tribulation, and that end time prophecy from Jesus was for the Jews, then it's actually quite important to get it clear why you see a difference and what criteria you're using to support that difference.

Douggg said:
Israel and Jews are all through end time prophecy passages, in a major way.

This is why the physical vs the spiritual is so important. You're reasoning from a physical point of view, where any mention of "Israel" must, of necessity, mean flesh and blood Jews and only flesh and blood Jews. When the pharisees tried to win an argument against Jesus by claiming righteousness based on their physical lineage to Abraham, Jesus rebuked them by acknowledging their physical lineage but then concluding that the real children of Abraham are those people with the faith of Abraham. He even went so far as to call them, the "Lord's chosen" the children of the Devil.

This in itself should be enough evidence to make any sincere person pause and consider whether their understanding of a flesh-and-blood Jewish Israel really is in tune with what Jesus promoted. But, for someone who's doctrine hinges on the physical, they've got a strong motivation not to look past the surface, especially when that doctrine results in avoiding uncomfortable truths (like the suffering for our faith which the Great Tribulation represents for any follower).

Endtime Survivors · Aug 24, 2016

Straightshot said:
These want to enter the tribulation in order to prove their salvation .... this is a religion of works

They say they must be purified by the experience

I've found this to almost always be the bottom line concerning the motivation behind a pre-trib stance. There's a lot of talk about really caring for what the Bible teachings; about wanting to be accurate and true to the scriptures etc. Jesus taught a lot about doing good. We can hardly love our neighbor without performing some kind of work. Jesus and his followers worked hard, going from place to place to preach, showing the kingdom of Heaven etc. They worked long hours and they traveled extensively.

Jesus said that we should let our light shine, that we should take the lower seat, that we should go into all the world teaching others what he's taught us, that we should try to resolve problems with our brothers/sisters, that we should take up our cross and follow him. He asked the people, "why do you call me Lord, but do not obey me"?

He obviously wanted us to work hard to become spiritually mature people and to promote the values of Heaven. I doubt there is anyone, even straightshot, who would argue that we can love our neighbor without putting any kind of effort into it, which means he's not against all or any kind of work, right? There are at least some works which he would feel are consistent with what Jesus wanted.

So it's not really "works" that's the problem, but rather what kind of works we're doing and most importantly, why we're doing them. What kind of works do the saints do in the Great Tribulation? The prophecy says they will overcome the Beast by loving not their lives even unto death. Does that sound like the kind of nasty, prideful works that straightshot suggests? No, not at all. It sounds like the same kind of thing Jesus taught to his followers, "do not fear what people can do to the body", "take up your cross and follow me", "No greater love has a man than he lay down his life", "he who seeks to lose his life will gain it and he who seeks to gain his life will lose it" etc. The list goes on and on.

This is at least the second (and probably the third time) I've said as much to straightshot. I've quoted these teachings directly to him before, and yet he persists with presenting the idea that post-tribbers are proud masochists. I believe this is because the concept that "suffering is bad" is integral to the pre-trib theory; he cannot acknowledge what I've said because it works against his theory. I doubt anyone wants to suffer, any more than Jesus wanted to suffer, and yet God allowed it and Jesus accepted it as a natural consequence of what it means to persevere with courage, integrity, and love in an evil world. The servant is not above his master; if they persecuted Jesus then they will persecute us as well.

A willingness to face up to tribulation, even Great Tribulation does not equate to a desire for pain. That assessment is unfair and overlooks all that Jesus said about our need to faithfully overcome. It's an emotional response which, at the heart of it, desperately seeks to avoid tribulation and persecution while making themselves feel better about their cowardice by ridiculing those who are not so inclined to run away.

If God chooses to remove us from the Great Tribulation, I'll be thrilled at having been wrong. But it would be foolish to bring only a small amount of oil on the promise that the groom won't be late.

Straightshot · Aug 24, 2016

Those with oil [the Lord's holy spirit] ..... Revelation 3:10

Those with no oil [the Lord's holy spirit] .... Revelation 3:15-20

John 3:1-18

Your choice

Riberra · Aug 24, 2016

Douggg said:
I have gone over all of those scriptures and cited Revelation 12:12 about them in heaven rejoicing during that time (during the Day of the Lord), while woe to the inhabitants of the earth during (the Day of the Lord).

It's the same time period, but different results. The raptured and resurrected saints will be in heaven rejoicing. And them here on earth will be going through the great tribulation, until Jesus returns and destroys the man of sin, just like it says in 2thessalonians2:8.

Revelation
12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Those who dwell in Heaven are angels and some other celestial beings.

Revelation 5:8-11
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Douggg said:
When the Jews will see millions of Christians being taken in the air in the rapture before the tribulation they will turn to God and became Christians.

You have surely not find that quote in the Bible.
Revelation 11:13 tell us when the Jews in Israel will turn to God.
Revelation 11:11-13
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Straightshot · Aug 24, 2016

"Those who dwell in Heaven are angels and some other celestial beings"

Nay .... these are the immortal humans of the Lord's true ecclesia of today's "church" seen in heaven during the tribulation period .... not angles by any stretch of the imagination

[Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-9; 19:14]

How and when did they get there? ...... 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 5:1-9; 1 Thessalonians 4:1-3; 2 Thessalonians 2:1; Revelation 3:10; 18:4]

Riberra · Aug 24, 2016

Straightshot said:
"Those who dwell in Heaven are angels and some other celestial beings"

Nay .... these are the immortal humans of the Lord's true ecclesia of today's "church" seen in heaven during the tribulation period

[Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:2; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-9; 19:14]

How and when did they get there? .... 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 5:1-9; 1 Thessalonians 4:1-3; 2 Thessalonians 2:1; Revelation 3:10; 18:4]

Nay the tribulation of the End times will begin when the first trumpet will sound Revelation 8:6-13

You are unable to read and understand that Revelation 5:8-11 is about celestial beings that God have created billions of years before the Humans

Revelation 4:4
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Revelation 5:8-11
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many ANGELS round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;{/b}

Postvieww · Aug 24, 2016

Douggg said:
I have gone over all of those scriptures and cited Revelation 12:12 about them in heaven rejoicing during that time (during the Day of the Lord), while woe to the inhabitants of the earth during (the Day of the Lord).

It's the same time period, but different results. The raptured and resurrected saints will be in heaven rejoicing. And them here on earth will be going through the great tribulation, until Jesus returns and destroys the man of sin, just like it says in 2thessalonians2:8.

Revelation
12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

You mentioned Rev 12 in post #569 in response to 2 Corinthians 1:14 in my post #567

To which I responded in post #574 :

“Who could be rejoicing in heaven?

1. 24 elders and 4 beasts, thousands of angels and every creature which is heaven. Rev 5:8-14 Rev 7:9-12

2. Souls of a great multitude Revelation 7:9-15

There is a lot of rejoicing in heaven but none of it is from resurrected saints.”

You have not responded to these 5 scriptures from post # 674:

“1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

This day is not the day of the tribulation it is the day of redemption , the day of His coming , The day of our gathering. No tie whatsoever to the tribulation.

1 Corinthians 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Not one hint of this day referring to the tribulation. We will be found blamless when He comes for us not when the tribulation starts.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Not one hint of tribulation in this passage. The work begun in us will continue until He comes for us that is absolulty the Day of Christ.

Philippians 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

Not one hint of tribulation in this passage. This passage refers also to His coming for us.

Philippians 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

Paul is not talking about rejoicing in the day of tribulation.”

You have not yet backed up with scripture your stance on “the day of Christ” in 2 Thess 2.

The day of Christ is the day of Christ not the week, month, or years or tribulation or any other lengthy time frame. It is the day of His coming and our gathering in 2 Thess 2. If you want to make it something else you need to refute
Paul's statements listed above or come up with some solid scriptures to back what you are saying. Just declaring it so does not work.

Straightshot · Aug 24, 2016

"Nay the tribulation of the End times will begin when the first trumpet will sound Revelation 8:6-13"

You do not understand that Revelation is a series of individual visions by subject that repeat .... the book is not written is strict chronological order as the narrative moves forward

John is taken into heaven to be shown the future [the things here after] .... after what? .... just after the Lord's true ecclesia are made immortal [Revelation 3:10; 4:1]

And the first thing he sees is the immortal "church" in heaven and around the throne [Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10]

Then the portents of the seals are given noting the prevailing conditions of the coming tribulation leading up to chapter 8 and the beginning of the actual tribulation events [Revelation 6]

Next .... the 144000 mortals of Israel are seen on the earth and must be sealed before the tribulation begins [Revelation 7:1-8]

Then the visions switches back to heaven and the Lord's immortal "church" [Revelation 7:9-17]

And only after does the tribulation begin in chapter 8

Revelation's view switches back and forth between heaven and the earth during the tribulation .... and the Lord's immortal ecclesia are seen several times again as the narrative moves forward even unto the end of the period

Riberra · Aug 24, 2016

Straightshot said:
"Nay .... these are the immortal humans of the Lord's true ecclesia of today's "church" seen in heaven during the tribulation period"

You do not understand that Revelation is a series of individual visions by subject that repeat .... the book is not written is strict chronological order as the narrative moves forward

John is taken into heaven to be shown the future [the things here after] .... after what? .... just after the Lord's true ecclesia are made immortal [Revelation 3:10; 4:1]

And the first thing he sees is the immortal "church" in heaven and around the throne [Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10]

John never saw the immortal Church in Heaven....the Church will be resurrected and made immortal unto the Coming of Jesus to reign with Him ON THE EARTH Revelation 20:4-6.
You seem to believe that the four beast and the twenty elders and the ANGELS is a secret code for the immortal "church" in heaven and around the throne ... Caught!

Read again:
And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting,

And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many ANGELS round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Revelation 4:4
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Revelation 5:8-11
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many ANGELS round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Douggg · Aug 24, 2016

Postvieww said:
You have not responded to these 5 scriptures from post # 674:

“1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

This day is not the day of the tribulation it is the day of redemption , the day of His coming , The day of our gathering. No tie whatsoever to the tribulation.

1 Corinthians 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Not one hint of this day referring to the tribulation. We will be found blamless when He comes for us not when the tribulation starts.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Not one hint of tribulation in this passage. The work begun in us will continue until He comes for us that is absolulty the Day of Christ.

Philippians 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

Not one hint of tribulation in this passage. This passage refers also to His coming for us.

Philippians 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

Paul is not talking about rejoicing in the day of tribulation.”

I did respond, but you are not getting it. The Day of Christ begins when the man of sin commits the act, in his time. But before he is allowed to commit that act, the rapture will take place 2thessalonians 2:6 and 2:7.

So, with the Christians taken out of the way, the man of sin can reveal himself, and the Day of Christ will begin. Here on earth there will be great tribulation, until Jesus returns and destroys the person. While in heaven, the raptured and resurrected saints are rejoicing - the same Day of Christ.

When Jesus returns to earth, the raptured and resurrected saints will accompany him, to reign and rule upon this earth.

Anyone who is a Christian, here on earth, during the Day of Christ, will not be rejoicing about it.

Douggg · Aug 24, 2016

Riberra said:
Douggg said: ↑
When the Jews will see millions of Christians being taken in the air in the rapture before the tribulation they will turn to God and became Christians.

Riberra, you need to go back and edit your post, as I am not the one who said that.

Straightshot · Aug 24, 2016

"John never saw the immortal Church in Heaven"

You better read your Bible son .... closer than you have [Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-19; 20:4 [those already on thrones]]

This truth completely destroys your post-tribulation theology

Straightshot · Aug 24, 2016

"Anyone who is a Christian, here on earth, during the Day of Christ, will not be rejoicing about it"

This is correct [Revelation 6:12-17] ... there is no difference between the day of the Lord and the day of Christ ... He is the Lord and it is His day of retribution against an unbelieving world that has refused to believe the truth about Him .... so He will give them the devil instead [2 Thessalonians 2:3-12]

Postvieww · Aug 24, 2016

Straightshot said:
"Those who dwell in Heaven are angels and some other celestial beings"

Nay .... these are the immortal humans of the Lord's true ecclesia of today's "church" seen in heaven during the tribulation period .... not angles by any stretch of the imagination

[Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-9; 19:14]

How and when did they get there? ...... 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 5:1-9; 1 Thessalonians 4:1-3; 2 Thessalonians 2:1; Revelation 3:10; 18:4]

Nay .... these are the immortal humans of the Lord's true ecclesia of today's "church" seen in heaven during the tribulation period .... not angles by any stretch of the imagination

There are no resurrected saints show in heaven in Revelation.

[Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-9; 19:14]

Rev 4:4 are twenty four elders they are not resurrected saints they are created beings.

Rev 5:1-10 are him that sat on the throne, a strong angel, the elders vs 5, four beasts, Jesus shows up after His ascension in verse 6.

You need to read Rev. 5: 9-10 in the ASV.

Rev 5:9-10 ASV

9 And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,

10 and madest them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and they reign upon the earth.

The elders and the beasts sang a new song. If you disagree with the ASV translation you need to explain how the four beasts could be redeemed by His blood. They are created beings in heaven and cannot be redeemed by His blood.

Rev 7:9-17 The multitude of verse 9 are those that come out of the great tribulation verse 14. They are not the resurrected church. There is not one shred of evidence in the text they are any different than the souls of those in Rev 6:9. There through death not a resurrection and rapture.

Rev 11:1 Nothing in the text about any resurrected saints.

Rev 13:6 We have already been through a long list of them that dwell in heaven and there is no resurrected saints among them. Show it in the text if you disagree.

Rev 17:14 They that are with Him when the Lamb goes to war with the beast and his crew are on this earth not in heaven.

Rev 19:1-9 Much people in heaven are all of the people in previously mentioned the souls of them slain Rev 6:9, those that came out of great tribulation, all of those who have died and went to be with the Lord, 2 Corinthians 5:8 from the entire church age. All of those souls listed will come back with Christ when he comes to Rapture his living sainst and resurrected the bodies of those souls with Him

1 Thess 3:13, 1 Thess 4:14-17, Zech 14:5.

Rev 19:14 those armies with Him are those of 1 Thess 3:13, 1 Thess 4:14-17, Zech 14:5.

There is not one verse in Revelation that points to a resurrection of the church and return to heaven. That is all assumed by pretibbers but never shown in scripture because it is not there.

How and when did they get there? ...... 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 5:1-9; 1 Thessalonians 4:1-3; 2 Thessalonians 2:1; Revelation 3:10; 18:4]

I Corinthians 15:51-58 has no when in the text the when can be found in 1 Corin 15:23-24 at His coming at the end not 7 years before the end.

Rev 5:1-9 has no resurrection in the text so there is no when.

1 Thess. 4:1-3 Did you mean 4:14-17 that is the resurrection and catching up of the saints there is no when, mentioned in the text here but Jesus said the resurrection would be at the last day not the last day before the tribulation.

2 Thess 2:1 the when in verse 3 is after the falling away and the man of sin is revealed.

Rev 3:10 Was written to the church at Philadelphia in John’s day. It speaks of an “hour” of “temptation” but no when for a resurrection in this text.

Rev 18:4 This is addressed to God’s people that are in that great city of Babylon, no resurrection or when in this text either.

You are batting 0.

There is no pre-trib resurrection.

Straightshot · Aug 24, 2016

Well you are flat wrong son .... none of your points are valid

Not only that but your post-tribulation thinking falls down with the idea that all believers on the earth will be resurrected at the end of the tribulation period

If this were true there would be no believing mortal survivors of the tribulation to enter and populate [reproduce in] the Lord's millennial kingdom upon the earth .... but there will be

So your theology gets shot down on both ends

You have misidentified the immortals of the Lord's true ecclesia at the beginning of and during the tribulation with error .... and your idea of a resurrection at the end of the period based upon Matthew 24:29-31 and Matthew 25:31-46 is bogus

These gatherings of Israel and the Gentile nations will be one of mortals .... no resurrections for anyone in the process

Postvieww · Aug 24, 2016

Straightshot said:
Well you are flat wrong son .... none of your points are valid

Not only that but your post-tribulation thinking falls down with the idea that all believers on the earth will be resurrected at the end of the tribulation period

If this were true there would be no believing mortal survivors of the tribulation to enter and populate [reproduce in] the Lord's millennial kingdom upon the earth .... but there will be

So your theology gets shot down on both ends

You have misidentified the immortals of the Lord's true ecclesia at the beginning of and during the tribulation with error .... and your idea of a resurrection at the end of the period based upon Matthew 24:29-31 and Matthew 25:31-46 is bogus

These gatherings of Israel and the Gentile nations will be one of mortals .... no resurrections for anyone in the process

Scripture please,that shows my points to be invalid????

Straightshot · Aug 24, 2016

I have given you related scripture many times demonstrating the flaws of your post-tribulation view and you know it [so do other posters on this forum] .... so let's knock off the runaround game that you play .... you are barking at the wind

Riberra · Aug 25, 2016

Douggg said:
The Day of Christ begins when the man of sin commits the act, in his time.

The Day of Christ is the Day when Jesus will come to take vengeance on His enemies and will destroy them with the glory of His presence during the Armageddon battle.The armies of the world and all those who have taken the mark of the beast will be gathered at the valley of Megiddo.

Revelation 16:14 through Revelation 19:21

Riberra · Aug 25, 2016

Straightshot said:
"John never saw the immortal Church in Heaven"

You better read your Bible son .... closer than you have [Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-19; 20:4 [those already on thrones]]

This truth completely destroys your post-tribulation theology

Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10;
the four beasts and twenty elders....and a multitude of Angels = Celestial beings .

------------------
Revelation 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-19; 20:4
The Souls of the millions of Christians martyrs who have passed away since Jesus have ascended to Heaven that John saw in Heaven clothed with white robes,

Do you notice how God talk about the SOULS of the MARTYRS that will be part of the First resurrection....but no mention of the other believers.
The reason must be because the SAINTS are those who were slain for the the word of God and their testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Revelation 7:9-17
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes,

Revelation 19:6-8
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 20:4

The other Christians will be Judged at the Great White Throne Judgement after the millennium. .If their names is found written in the Book of Life of the Lamb they will receive immortality ...on the New Earth.
__________________________

At first view based on the verses cited the Marriage/Marriage Supper and the First Resurrection will be for the Martyrs ie SAINTS .them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:and the Saints surviving the Great tribulation ...
Revelation 19:6-8
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the SOULS of THEM that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads,or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

keras · Aug 25, 2016

Straightshot said:
I have given you related scripture many times demonstrating the flaws of your post-tribulation view and you know it [so do other posters on this forum] .... so let's knock off the runaround game that you play .... you are barking at the wind

Other posters on this forum know how you desperately fit in a pre trib rapture into the Bible, where it is never stated that God's plan is to take living people to heaven.
If you knew your Bible you should know His plan is and always was, to have a people in His holy Land, who would be His witnesses and a light to the nations. The escapism of a rapture removal is sheer wishful thinking and is only seen by those who want to avoid any trials or difficult times ahead.
There is simply no doubt that Gods righteous people are in the holy Land during the time of the Anti-Christ, as Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7 make clear.

Escaping the Great Tribulation?

prophecy link in my profile!

prophecy link in my profile!

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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