Why don't protestants bless Mary?

Albion said:

Not exactly. Ex Cathedra declarations are believed to be infallible, but infallibility is thought to reside in the institutional church in the absence of any such Papal decrees. Hence, the Magisterium is said to be infallible, the Councils are said to be infallible, etc.

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The problem lies in the etc. For example, Papal Bulls, which were once considered to be dogmatic statements, are now generally ignored altogether.

bbbbbbb said:

The problem lies in the etc. For example, Papal Bulls, which were once considered to be dogmatic statements, are now generally ignored altogether.

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Ex Cathedra statements were what we were referring to, not every Papal pronouncement.

Albion said:

Ex Cathedra statements were what we were referring to, not every Papal pronouncement.

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I know, but you corrected the statement by saying that infallibility lies not only with "ex cathedra" statements, but also with other means, including "etc." It is the etc. that can be confusing.

bbbbbbb said:

I know, but you corrected the statement by saying that infallibility lies not only with "ex cathedra" statements, but also with other means, including "etc." It is the etc. that can be confusing.

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I see. Well, if I have any defense for my excessive use of "etc.," it would be, in this case, that there are still other mechanisms, according to the RCC, by which the church speaks infallibly. I didn't feel like going into that.

Albion said:

I see. Well, if I have any defense for my excessive use of "etc.," it would be, in this case, that there are still other mechanisms, according to the RCC, by which the church speaks infallibly. I didn't feel like going into that.

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No problem. If, in actual fact, any church was capable of speaking infallibly then I might be more concerned.

bbbbbbb said:

Yes, opposite, as in opposed or contrary to. For example, if I say that the post-death experience of a person entails extreme pain and torture, but several centuries later someone comes along and says that I was simply mistaken and the reality is that the experience is one of delight and refreshment, would you not agree that these are opposite opinions? One may be correct, but both cannot be correct.

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I know short responses can be frustrating, but I think you need to re read my posts that you are addressing above.
Not sure where you get "delight and refreshment" from. Apologies if you were just using those terms as exaggeration.

Panevino said:

I know short responses can be frustrating, but I think you need to re read my posts that you are addressing above.
Not sure where you get "delight and refreshment" from. Apologies if you were just using those terms as exaggeration.

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The delight and refreshment does not come from you, but from other Catholics, including at least one priest who was quoted to me by a Catholic friend. It seems to me that Purgatory is being rebranded to make it much more palatable.

of course they do and recognize as such, blessed = favored one.
the difference is in the mindset, in the rcc universe blessed equals hierarchical superiority.

Open Heart said:

Scripture says that all nations will call Mary blessed. Why is it that so many Protestants refuse to do so? Are they so afraid of appearing Catholic that they are willing to disrespect the Mother of our Lord? The only time they ever even talk about Mary when they either drag her out for Christmas or, in extreme cases, when they are disparaging her to say she was merely an incubator and no one special. What is with that?

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Geralt said:

the difference is in the mindset, in the rcc universe blessed equals hierarchical superiority.

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That would make a lot of sense if Mary was made a pope ... or an apostle ... or a bishop ... or a priest ... or even a deacon. But since she has never been considered as any of these I guess 'blessed' has no great correlation to where one is in the hierarchy.

not in titles contained within the rcc system.
superlative titles like queen of the universe, mediatrix, cause of our joy, star of the sea, etc..
don't tell me these are simply fictional.

chevyontheriver said:

That would make a lot of sense if Mary was made a pope ... or an apostle ... or a bishop ... or a priest ... or even a deacon. But since she has never been considered as any of these I guess 'blessed' has no great correlation to where one is in the hierarchy.

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Geralt said:

not in titles contained within the rcc system.
superlative titles like queen of the universe, mediatrix, cause of our joy, star of the sea, etc..
don't tell me these are simply fictional.

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None of these have anything to do with the hierarchy. I guess maybe you have a thing about Mary that I can't appreciate. So I'll leave you to it without further interference.

then i have to conclude, in your point of view, mary titles are all just for show, fictional in sense. not part of hierarchy = not the 'greatest of all saints' as alleged, therefore no authority, purely cosmetic, wasted devotion.

you must understand the rcc mindset has been so obsessed with that 'blessed are you amongst women' or 'all nations shall call me blessed' that a whole gamut of ripple effect titles came about. but then again you can't see the hierarchy on this so let me tie the noose and close this.

chevyontheriver said:

None of these have anything to do with the hierarchy. I guess maybe you have a thing about Mary that I can't appreciate. So I'll leave you to it without further interference.

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chevyontheriver said:

That would make a lot of sense if Mary was made a pope ... or an apostle ... or a bishop ... or a priest ... or even a deacon. But since she has never been considered as any of these I guess 'blessed' has no great correlation to where one is in the hierarchy.

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Your reply seems to cast a blind eye toward the "queen" part.
Did I miss something?

Rick Otto said:

Your reply seems to cast a blind eye toward the "queen" part.
Did I miss something?

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Yeah, you missed something. Mary has no role as even a simple deacon, let alone priest or bishop or cardinal or pope. She is outside of that whole hierarchy thing you guys love to rail about, as outside of it as you and I are. Rail on, if you must.

chevyontheriver said:

Yeah, you missed something. Mary has no role as even a simple deacon, let alone priest or bishop or cardinal or pope. She is outside of that whole hierarchy thing you guys love to rail about, as outside of it as you and I are. Rail on, if you must.

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You are correct, if we limit the discussion to ranks of the clergy. However, that's not what the thread or its title are about.

And if being styled the Queen of Heaven as well as all the other titles suggesting that Mary has special powers and that we mortals ought to consider her to be an intercessor and dispenser of graces, etc.--it certainly does represent being part of a hierarchy of some sort (albeit not part of the clerical orders).

Albion said:

You are correct, if we limit the discussion to ranks of the clergy. However, that's not what the thread or its title are about.

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So they can get over their hierarchy issues, or discuss them in a separate discussion (as if that's never been done before). It would make more sense to me if they could keep their eccesiological issues separate from their issues with Mary. Maybe it's just linguistic imprecision. Whatever.

Actually now that I see that this discussion has gone on now for a whopping 1596 posts, I doubt that it's worth adding more. So I'm moving on. There does seem to be a diminishing returns effect on replies to posts. The first ten are often germain. After that it seems downhill.

chevyontheriver said:

Yeah, you missed something. Mary has no role as even a simple deacon, let alone priest or bishop or cardinal or pope. She is outside of that whole hierarchy thing you guys love to rail about, as outside of it as you and I are. Rail on, if you must.

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Sensationalize our simple observations if you must, but the force of her influence is magnified by her back-channel access to the divine, else she not deserve hyper-dulia.
Thou protesteth unduly.

Open Heart said:

Why do women have to be like men in order to be equal to men? That's the worst sort of sexism there is!

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This is a terrible apologetic line.

Bless Mary, in the sense of making graven images of her, to carry down the main streets of superstitious nations? In the sense of praying to Mary? Or including vain, repetitious chanting of hail Marys? Or to claim some number of vain, repetitious chants constitute penance for sin? To make Mary the queen of heaven and elevate her to deity status, which is what Catholics actually do? (Like the statue of Mary they parade down the street, on an elevated platform, and the prayers to Mary, when the Lord Jesus instructed prayer to God, only, this out of one side of their mouth, and out of the other side claim they're not worshiping Mary? Don't believe your lying eyes and ears?)

Here is the answer to why Protestants don't "bless Mary" as you put it: because there's no Mariolatry in scripture. Because it is not of the faith of Jesus Christ and the apostles. Because it's doctrines of men and demons, fabricated by Catholic men, long after the days of the true first century church. Because it's accursed.

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.