Historyf of declaring War against "the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) Thy God"

BobRyan · Jan 26, 2016

Your Neighbor said:
Canon 29 of the Council of Laodicea (ca. A.D. 360) explicitly condemns the veneration of the Sabbath and enjoins working on such a day in order to show a special respect for Sunday:
Source: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3806.htm

Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

Click to expand...

Which churches believe this today?
Roman Catholic?
Eastern Orthodox?
Any others?

What does anathema mean in this canon?

Great example in that quote of declaring war against the "Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) thy God" Ex 20:8-11

But as we learn in Mark 7 - that is not the first time that the so-called holy and sacred tradition of the magisterium of the day - went to war against one of the Commandments of God -

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

BobRyan · Jan 26, 2016

Ex 20
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD (YHWH) made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD (YHWH) blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

It does not say "The Sabbath of the Jews thy neighbor" -- and that is "instructive".
Vs 11 of Exodus 20 summarizes the Genesis 1:2-2:3 events pointing specifically to Gen 2:1-3.

IS 58
“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the LORD(YHWH) honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,

Is 66
And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All mankind shall come to worship before Me,” says the

Gen 26
5 Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

Gal 3:7 "the Gospel was preached to Abraham"

BobRyan · Jan 26, 2016

And Heb 4 "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"
And Rev 14:7 "Worship Him who MADE the Heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water"
And Acts 13 - Sabbath after Sabbath worship services - gospel preaching to both Jews and Gentiles
Acts 17 - Sabbath after Sabbath after Sabbath worship services - gospel preaching to both Jews and Gentiles
Acts 18 - EVERY Sabbath worship services - gospel preaching to both Jews and Gentiles
Acts 15 - scripture is read "Every Sabbath"

BobRyan · Feb 2, 2016

BobRyan said:
But the LAW of God has not changed. as we see in Eph 6:2 "What unit of LAW" is being upheld by Paul in Eph 5:2 where the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a PROMISE"?... easy answer.

Jer 31:31-33 NEW Covenant - what "LAW" did Jeremiah and his readers know to include the TEN Commandments? "I will write My LAWs on their heart and mind" - one of the key promises found in the actual NC and unchanged even in Heb 8:6-10

bugkiller said:
This is sophistry.

On the contrary it is exegesis - to observe that the LAW that Jeremiah and his readers knew about as the moral law of God is the same one Paul quotes from in Eph 6:2, and Romans 13 and Romans 7 and James quotes from in James 2 - it includes God's TEN Commandments as they all point out -- and as even the majority of your own pro-sunday scholars point out.

Who might that be??

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

======================================

I say "all the lost are condemned under the Old Covenant just as Rom 3:19-21 says. That covenant informs us of the requirements of the LAW of God as given in SCRIPTURE. ALL SIN is transgression of that LAW. The Old Covenant is - OBEY and Live -- which points out our NEED of a Savior".

You can quote that any time you like.

jerry kelso said:
even though the bible says it was replaced by the new covenant

ONLY in the case of the SAVED - is the Old Covenant replaced by the Jer 31:31-33 NEW Covenant "I will write MY LAW on their heart and on their mind" -- same LAW of God - found in SCRIPTURE - but different location - different context.

In the Old Covenant for lost humanity - it is external. In the NEW Covenant that SAME Law is "written on the heart and mind".

Do you believe the sabbath is a moral or ceremonial law and how and why?

Sabbath breaking is immoral - in that it is sin - it does not show "Love for God"

As even the Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith - admit - the first FOUR commandment relate to our duty to Love God.

"Worship HIM who MADE the heavens and the earth and the seas and springs of water" Rev 14:7.

in Christ,

Bob

bbbbbbb said:
If, as you say, it includes the ten commandments, then it does not also exclude the other 603, does it?

Your own Westminster Confession of Faith, C.H. Spurgeon, R.C. Sproul, D.L. Moody, Baptist Confession of Faith - say that it includes the TEN Commandments - it is "just the Bible" that says it in places like Eph 6:2 and James 2.

And the reason that ceremonial laws are not ALSO included (as they point out) is because of things like Hebrews 10:4-10 and 1 Cor 7:19.

in Christ,

Bob

bugkiller · Feb 2, 2016

BobRyan said:
On the contrary it is exegesis - to observe that the LAW that Jeremiah and his readers knew about as the moral law of God is the same one Paul quotes from in Eph 6:2, and Romans 13 and Romans 7 and James quotes from in James 2 - it includes God's TEN Commandments as they all point out -- and as even the majority of your own pro-sunday scholars point out.

Bob this isn't exegesis when you refuse to listen to the first 2'3 of the sentence which disallows your idea. I double dog dare ya ta parse the whole sentence.

Who might that be??

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

hehehehe My you're funny.

======================================

I say "all the lost are condemned under the Old Covenant just as Rom 3:19-21 says. That covenant informs us of the requirements of the LAW of God as given in SCRIPTURE. ALL SIN is transgression of that LAW. The Old Covenant is - OBEY and Live -- which points out our NEED of a Savior".

Then like I said in another thread this is a paste from or visa-versa the Christian is saved. One is supposed to be a Christian to post in this section. Therefore your point is mute. We know your belief is that those who disagree with you aren't Christian. You're evangelizing here which is against the rules. Not only are you evangelizing but you're evangelizing Christians trying to convert them to your belief system.

You can quote that any time you like.

ONLY in the case of the SAVED - is the Old Covenant replaced by the Jer 31:31-33 NEW Covenant "I will write MY LAW on their heart and on their mind" -- same LAW of God - found in SCRIPTURE - but different location - different context.

Just more c&p spam you posted elsewhere.

In the Old Covenant for lost humanity - it is external. In the NEW Covenant that SAME Law is "written on the heart and mind".

You should really read what you post. You shoot yourself in the foot here.

Sabbath breaking is immoral - in that it is sin - it does not show "Love for God"

Its only immoral for those to whom its given and required of. At this time its not required of anyone including a natural blood line Israeli. You've been presented all the passages before.

As even the Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith - admit - the first FOUR commandment relate to our duty to Love God.

So, your point is....

"Worship HIM who MADE the heavens and the earth and the seas and springs of water" Rev 14:7.

Again I say Amen!!! The verse has nothing to do with the Sabbath.

bugkiller

BobRyan · Feb 3, 2016

bugkiller said:
Bob this isn't exegesis when you refuse to listen to the first 2'3 of the sentence

No such "refuse to listen" fiction on this board - in real life.

next.

We know your belief is that those who disagree with you aren't Christian.

No such "those who differ with me are not Christians" fiction on this board - in real life.

next.

Please stick with the details in the actual posts.

bugkiller · Feb 3, 2016

BobRyan said:
No such "refuse to listen" fiction on this board - in real life.

next.

huh? You only quote v 33 and refuse to quote or comment on 31 or 32.

No such "those who differ with me are not Christians" fiction on this board - in real life.

next.

Please stick with the details in the actual posts.

Then why is you try to convert people who worship on Sunday to worship Saturday. Please notice I didn't say on Saturday. Do I need to quote from your hymnal again?

bugkiller

BobRyan · Feb 4, 2016

BobRyan said:
Then why is you try to convert people who worship on Sunday to worship Saturday. Please notice I didn't say on Saturday. Do I need to quote from your hymnal again?
bugkiller

?? "quote from my hymnal"??? - Did I write a hymnal???

"people who worship on Sunday" ??

Like these ??-
The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism

bugkiller · Feb 4, 2016

BobRyan said:
?? "quote from my hymnal"??? - Did I write a hymnal???

"people who worship on Sunday" ??

Like these ??-
The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism

You're great entertainment.

bugkiller

Sophrosyne · Feb 11, 2016

bugkiller said:
You're great entertainment.

bugkiller

We need a sarcastic smiley don't we?

BobRyan · Feb 27, 2016

Sophrosyne said:
We need a sarcastic smiley don't we?

do you?

Sophrosyne · Feb 27, 2016

BobRyan said:
do you?

Sure, I use sarcasm at times especially when dealing with people who are like horses who are dying of thirst whom all your efforts can't entice them to drink out of the water trough in front of them.

EastCoastRemnant · Feb 27, 2016

Sophrosyne said:
Sure, I use sarcasm at times especially when dealing with people who are like horses who are dying of thirst whom all your efforts can't entice them to drink out of the water trough in front of them.

Instead of using an emoticon, why don't you explain why the apostles and disciples all kept the Sabbath during their ministries in the NT and why there isn't one definitive passage that says that what has been done all along, is no longer valid. Why didn't Jesus or the apostles say what the council of Laodicea did? There is not even a hint of this in the NT, from what I can discern.

Sophrosyne · Feb 27, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
Instead of using an emoticon, why don't you explain why the apostles and disciples all kept the Sabbath during their ministries in the NT and why there isn't one definitive passage that says that what has been done all along, is no longer valid. Why didn't Jesus or the apostles say what the council of Laodicea did? There is not even a hint of this in the NT, from what I can discern.

There isn't any proof that they did ALL keep the Sabbath in the Bible after they became Christians for the rest of their lives as you suggest so in that you are arguing from silence. I would expect someone who spent most of their lives doing the same thing over and over even if told they no longer had to do it would likely keep doing it as a "tradition". I've seen arguments that Paul didn't always keep the Sabbath when he was among a totally gentile group with no Jews and that Peter didn't always keep it either and that after the Temple was destroyed that Sabbath keeping with the onus of temple worship was halted totally.
As for the council of Laodicea, they were not a council made TOTALLY of Jews, so they would not "think" Jewish rituals/traditions/laws were of importance to Christians. I'm betting that they decided that the Sabbath Law of Judaism was a stumbling block to Christians that if removed from sight wouldn't have them thinking they were "sinning" by not keeping it when in reality it IS when one decides to "keep" the Sabbath and one fails that they sin, not in deciding not to keep it in the first place.

bugkiller · Feb 27, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
Instead of using an emoticon, why don't you explain why the apostles and disciples all kept the Sabbath during their ministries in the NT and why there isn't one definitive passage that says that what has been done all along, is no longer valid. Why didn't Jesus or the apostles say what the council of Laodicea did? There is not even a hint of this in the NT, from what I can discern.

Weren't they Jews?

You're not very discerning.

bugkiller

Sophrosyne · Feb 27, 2016

bugkiller said:
Weren't they Jews?

You're not very discerning.

bugkiller

I've found there is a huge disconnect with legalists when it comes to Jews vs Gentiles they think once you accept Christ you are suddenly the same as a Jew.

EastCoastRemnant · Feb 28, 2016

Sophrosyne said:
I'm betting that they decided that the Sabbath Law of Judaism was a stumbling block to Christians that if removed from sight wouldn't have them thinking they were "sinning" by not keeping it when in reality it IS when one decides to "keep" the Sabbath and one fails that they sin, not in deciding not to keep it in the first place.

Is this like when you try and "keep" the six commandment and fail, that you have sinned? Isn't that the purpose of the Commandments, to show us what sin is? That's the reason there is no salvation in them, they are Divine standards that God has given us... standards that reflect His character. Tell me, do you try and keep the other nine Commandments? Or, because of Christ's Grace, you don't bother with any of them?

It's a wonder the council didn't nullify all those pesky, hard to keep Commandments...

Sophrosyne · Feb 28, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
Is this like when you try and "keep" the six commandment and fail that you have sinned? Isn't that the purpose of the Commandments, to show us what sin is? That's the reason there is no salvation in them, they are mere standards that God has given us... standards that reflect His character. Tell me, do you try and keep the other nine Commandments? Or, because of Christ's Grace, you don't bother with any of them?

It's a wonder the council didn't nullify all those pesky, hard to keep Commandments...

Herein lies the problem with your thinking, "keeping" commandments has you only focused on "not sinning" while the Bible says that is an impossible task you will always break any commandments given thus all your efforts on "keeping" is not going to get you anywhere. It is faith in God that saves us. God commands us to love our neighbor and that is BETTER than keeping a list of "do's and don'ts".
In other words one can love and not want to murder, rob, rape, or lie about their neighbor while one who avoids murdering and robbing and raping and lies this in itself doesn't equate to love it just means maybe you hate less.

Grace says give up the old covenant where one is judged by how good they keep commandments and partake of the new covenant where focus on loving has us putting our faith in Christ who already did a perfect job of keeping commandments for us.

EastCoastRemnant · Feb 28, 2016

Sophrosyne said:
I've found there is a huge disconnect with legalists when it comes to Jews vs Gentiles they think once you accept Christ you are suddenly the same as a Jew.

Au contraire, mon ami, it is your ilk that is fomenting division and discord among God's people. Something about all those passages that speak of being grafted to the vine, heirs to the promise given to Abraham, no difference between Jew and Greek, etc. According to the Bible, all who have accepted the promise given in Genesis and reiterated through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, David et al, are all to be a part of Christ's kingdom... not in your world though, there appears to be two classes of the "saved"... I wonder which one you think has the ascendency? Who will be greatest in Heaven and have a place at the side of Christ's throne? The "Law" keeping Jews or the "Grace" crowd?

EastCoastRemnant · Feb 28, 2016

Sophrosyne said:
Herein lies the problem with your thinking, "keeping" commandments has you only focused on "not sinning" while the Bible says that is an impossible task you will always break any commandments given thus all your efforts on "keeping" is not going to get you anywhere. It is faith in God that saves us. God commands us to love our neighbor and that is BETTER than keeping a list of "do's and don'ts".
In other words one can love and not want to murder, rob, rape, or lie about their neighbor while one who avoids murdering and robbing and raping and lies this in itself doesn't equate to love it just means maybe you hate less.

Grace says give up the old covenant where one is judged by how good they keep commandments and partake of the new covenant where focus on loving has us putting our faith in Christ who already did a perfect job of keeping commandments for us.

So why can't the Sabbath be obeyed the same way, not through fear of breaking it, but through love to the Creator that asked us to spend that time with Him?

Historyf of declaring War against "the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) Thy God"

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