Mary conceives

Grafted In · Nov 29, 2015

Scripture tells us Mary conceived in her womb. We are conceived in a fallopian tube. It also refers to Jesus as the second Adam. The first Adam was not the result of a fertilized human egg.
So, did Mary contribute the egg that became Jesus?

Biblicist · Nov 29, 2015

Grafted In said:
Scripture tells us Mary conceived in her womb. We are conceived in a fallopian tube. It also refers to Jesus as the second Adam. The first Adam was not the result of a fertilized human egg.
So, did Mary contribute the egg that became Jesus?

Good question. As the egg would contain the human part of the nature of Jesus, then I would say that as the Holy Spirit was the one who conceived Jesus, that the Holy Spirit's actions would have supplied the Christ; thus we now have the God-man in Christ-Jesus.

Grafted In · Nov 29, 2015

Is that a yes or a no?

Biblicist · Nov 29, 2015

Grafted In said:
Is that a yes or a no?

Don't forget, when we speak of the dual natures of Christ that we are speaking about the God-man, where he has both a human nature (Jesus) and a Divine nature (Christ) where I suppose that we could say that this part of the God-man was indeed fertilised by the Holy Spirit. This is known as the hypostatic union. So I would say that through the egg that the God-man received his human nature through Mary.

Boy, your game for asking a question on the hypostatic union, where I think that I have probably exhausted my limited knowledge on this subject.

Biblicist · Nov 29, 2015

There could be another aspect to the God-man in that those who hold to the theory of traducianism which means that our human souls are passed on from our human fathers, then how would this affect the human nature of the God-man Jesus. I hold to this view as well, but of course Mary could have passed on the human component of man to Jesus, but as Mary was betrothed to Joseph, was it possible that Joseph (through his marital union with Mary) that he was the one who passed on the God-man's human nature - there you go, are you sorry now that you asked!

Edit: grammar

football5680 · Nov 29, 2015

Yes, but I don't see where you are going with this. Saint Paul explains what he meant by calling Jesus the second Adam and he wasn't speaking literally.

Biblicist · Nov 29, 2015

football5680 said:
Yes, but I don't see where you are going with this. Saint Paul explains what he meant by calling Jesus the second Adam and he wasn't speaking literally.

As Adam was the first man, who led all of mankind into sin. Jesus, as the first God-man enabled man to break free of sin. So in a way, as the God-man Jesus was initiated by the Father, as was Adam, this technically makes the God-man Jesus the second Adam.

Grafted In · Nov 29, 2015

football5680 said:
Yes, but I don't see where you are going with this. Saint Paul explains what he meant by calling Jesus the second Adam and he wasn't speaking literally.

Did your answer spring from common sense or do you have Scripture to back your opinion?

Albion · Nov 29, 2015

Grafted In said:
Did your answer spring from common sense or do you have Scripture to back your opinion?

There's nothing in Scripture that would make us think the conception was other than as described earlier--Mary's egg, Holy Spirit's power to bring about conception.

football5680 · Nov 29, 2015

Grafted In said:
Did your answer spring from common sense or do you have Scripture to back your opinion?

Both.

Common sense wise, it doesn't make much sense for Jesus to be born of a woman if the woman plays no part. The creation of Adam did not require a woman so the same thing could have happened with Jesus if God chose.

Biblically speaking, Jesus is called the Son of David and for him to be the messiah he must be a physical descendent of King David. If the Virgin Mary contributed nothing then this would be more like the creation of Adam, but like Adam, Jesus wouldn't be the descendant of anybody.

timewerx · Nov 30, 2015

Biblicist said:
Good question. As the egg would contain the human part of the nature of Jesus, then I would say that as the Holy Spirit was the one who conceived Jesus

Given that the Holy Spirit is feminine or at least sexless but the Egg of a woman is pure female chromosomes.

This means that Jesus Christ is a female. In non-canon Gospels, Jesus made Mary disguise as a man. What if Christ did the same thing??

Biblicist · Nov 30, 2015

timewerx said:
Given that the Holy Spirit is feminine or at least sexless but the Egg of a woman is pure female chromosomes.

This means that Jesus Christ is a female. In non-canon Gospels, Jesus made Mary disguise as a man. What if Christ did the same thing??

I'm really not all that sure as to how I am supposed to respond?

timewerx · Nov 30, 2015

Biblicist said:
I'm really not all that sure as to how I am supposed to respond?

Liking my post would be a good start!

Albion · Nov 30, 2015

timewerx said:
Given that the Holy Spirit is feminine or at least sexless but the Egg of a woman is pure female chromosomes.

This means that Jesus Christ is a female. In non-canon Gospels, Jesus made Mary disguise as a man. What if Christ did the same thing??

It would seem to mean that all of Jesus' chromosomes owe to his mother, but we cannot make such a statement. If God made the pregnancy possible--which in itself is outside the bounds of ordinary biology--we can also accept that He overrode this "problem" at the same time.

timewerx · Nov 30, 2015

Albion said:
It would seem to mean that all of Jesus' chromosomes owe to his mother, but we cannot make such a statement. If God made the pregnancy possible--which in itself is outside the bounds of ordinary biology--we can also accept that He overrode this "problem" at the same time.

In recent times, scientists were able to invoke a virgin birth in mammals without a sperm donor. All the genetic material came from the mother's egg.

But the offspring will always be a female.

I don't think it would be a problem if our savior is a female, but it would be a HUGE problem for her if she's going to do some public preaching as female. She'll be stoned to death in no time and all her teaching materials destroyed.

Solution, the savior has to be a male or disguise herself as a male, completely ridding herself of her female identity so that her teachings will be accepted by the patriarchal religious establishment.

Portions of the scriptures which may reveal Christ as a female may have been deliberately altered for a good reason.

Grafted In · Nov 30, 2015

Ok, not exactly the responces I antisipated.

So, Jesus was a woman? :scratch:

Not buying that.

Grafted In · Nov 30, 2015

Seems pc has done an incredible job.

TrevorL · Nov 30, 2015

Greetings Grafted In,

football5680 said:
Both.
Common sense wise, it doesn't make much sense for Jesus to be born of a woman if the woman plays no part. The creation of Adam did not require a woman so the same thing could have happened with Jesus if God chose.
Biblically speaking, Jesus is called the Son of David and for him to be the messiah he must be a physical descendent of King David. If the Virgin Mary contributed nothing then this would be more like the creation of Adam, but like Adam, Jesus wouldn't be the descendant of anybody.

I agree with the above and the following simply states that Mary was the mother and God the Father was the Father by means of His Power, the Holy Spirit.
Luke 1:30-32 (KJV): 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luke 1:35 (KJV): And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Thus Jesus is the Son of the Highest, The Son of God and the son of David.

Perhaps where I may differ from many, is that I believe that the child born was a human the Second Adam, like the First Adam, not a God-man with two natures.
Hebrews 2:14 (KJV): Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Kind regards
Trevor

Tina W · Nov 30, 2015

Grafted In said:
Scripture tells us Mary conceived in her womb. We are conceived in a fallopian tube. It also refers to Jesus as the second Adam. The first Adam was not the result of a fertilized human egg.
So, did Mary contribute the egg that became Jesus?

Yes it was Mary's egg. That terminology is used in the Bible because back then they had no word for fallopian tube, "womb" meant inside her body. Jesus is the second Adam because Adam was made without sin and Jesus was born without sin. Adam was the only man without sin till Jesus was born, so that made Him the second Adam.

Tina W · Nov 30, 2015

Biblicist said:
There could be another aspect to the God-man in that those who hold to the theory of traducianism which means that our human souls are passed on from our human fathers, then how would this affect the human nature of the God-man Jesus. I hold to this view as well, but of course Mary could have passed on the human component of man to Jesus, but as Mary was betrothed to Joseph, was it possible that Joseph (through his marital union with Mary) that he was the one who passed on the God-man's human nature - there you go, are you sorry now that you asked!

Edit: grammar

Joseph had nothing to do with the conception of Jesus.

Albion said:
It would seem to mean that all of Jesus' chromosomes owe to his mother, but we cannot make such a statement. If God made the pregnancy possible--which in itself is outside the bounds of ordinary biology--we can also accept that He overrode this "problem" at the same time.

Exactly! If God can make her conceive without a man He can certainly override the gender part too.

timewerx said:
In recent times, scientists were able to invoke a virgin birth in mammals without a sperm donor. All the genetic material came from the mother's egg.

But the offspring will always be a female.

I don't think it would be a problem if our savior is a female, but it would be a HUGE problem for her if she's going to do some public preaching as female. She'll be stoned to death in no time and all her teaching materials destroyed.

Solution, the savior has to be a male or disguise herself as a male, completely ridding herself of her female identity so that her teachings will be accepted by the patriarchal religious establishment.

Portions of the scriptures which may reveal Christ as a female may have been deliberately altered for a good reason.

That's why man is NOT God. What man can do and what God can do are 2 different things. Stop with the Jesus was female stuff. Jesus was circumcised, He was crucified half naked. He was/is a male.

Mary conceives

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