Unsatisfactory Scientific Explanations?

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
As for oxygen - that's an interesting observation - have you given it further thought?
There was an emergency room medicine doctor that was talking about how the cells remain vital until you reintroduce oxygen. That was when the cell died. I have some photos of the cells on my computer somewhere but I am not sure where they are now.
 
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,796
✟247,431.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
There was an emergency room medicine doctor that was talking about how the cells remain vital until you reintroduce oxygen. That was when the cell died. I have some photos of the cells on my computer somewhere but I am not sure where they are now.

If cells die after reintroduction to oxygen, that would mean the cells already reached the point of no return, since cells require oxygen to survive.
 
Upvote 0

Willis Gravning

St. Francis of Assisi
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2015
236
94
Sioux Falls, SD
✟99,367.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,796
✟247,431.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

Willis Gravning

St. Francis of Assisi
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2015
236
94
Sioux Falls, SD
✟99,367.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Upvote 0

[serious]

'As we treat the least of our brothers...' RIP GA
Site Supporter
Aug 29, 2006
15,100
1,716
✟72,846.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Now let's watch the double-talk begin whois. Notice he agrees that computers suspend programs to work on the next.



Yet the only explanation they tried to give is that they work on multiple streams at the same time - contradicting thier own claims. LOL.
each core works on one stream. Almost all cpus have multiple cores now. All GPUs have multiple cores.
I realize you all do not remember what you post from one to the next, but so far only whois and myself have remained consistent from one post to the next. Separate cpu's can work on more than one set of data at a time - but regardless if you have a billion cpu's - it is still limited because of bus widths. The human mind is not so constrained - but has billions of processors and billions of neural pathways. Each processor in the human brain has multiple data pathways - not limited data pathways shared by multiple processors.
so now you are going to give up on talking about processing and talk about transmission instead?
But you are all still avoiding what began all of this. ALL COMPUTERS RUN ON 2 BIT BINARY CODE.
AS DO ALL BRAINS
 
Upvote 0

[serious]

'As we treat the least of our brothers...' RIP GA
Site Supporter
Aug 29, 2006
15,100
1,716
✟72,846.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Sort of like the nanoseconds it takes us to process all the stimuli reaching our brains compared to the tiny bit a computer processes in those same nanoseconds? For example collision technology. I say if we could concentrate and process only one thing as it does ignoring all other input - we could react just as quickly as it does to those changing distances.

I agree - not even close. Maybe in 1000 years there might be a comparison between technology and the brain.
Nothing in our brain gets processed on the order of nanoseconds.signalsome down axons would only make it a fraction of a micrometer in that time. Even looking at a synapse, you are looking at .5msec just for the neurotransmitter to cross the cleft.
 
Upvote 0

Gracchus

Senior Veteran
Dec 21, 2002
7,198
821
California
Visit site
✟23,182.00
Faith
Pantheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
To get back to the subject: The brain is not a binary processor, nor is the transmission of nerve impulses electrical, but rather chemical at the synapse. The chemical neurotransmitters are of numerous kinds, and there may be feedback from the receptor neuron that inhibits or enhances the emission of the neurotransmitters.
See:
"Neurotransmitter (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Neurotransmitters are endogenous chemicals that enable neurotransmission. They transmit signals across a chemical synapse, such as in a neuromuscular junction, from one neuron (nerve cell) to another "target" neuron, muscle cell, or gland cell. Neurotransmitters are released from synaptic vesicles in synapses into the synaptic cleft, where they are received by receptors on other synapses. Many neurotransmitters are synthesized from simple and plentiful precursors such as amino acids, which are readily available from the diet and only require a small number of biosynthetic steps to convert them. Neurotransmitters play a major role in shaping everyday life and functions. Their exact numbers are unknown but more than 100 chemical messengers have been identified." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro...nsmitters.2C_peptides.2C_and_gasotransmitters

So the brain is definitely not a binary processor.

:oldthumbsup:





 

Attachments

  • upload_2015-11-27_16-13-51.png
    upload_2015-11-27_16-13-51.png
    52.3 KB · Views: 26
Upvote 0

[serious]

'As we treat the least of our brothers...' RIP GA
Site Supporter
Aug 29, 2006
15,100
1,716
✟72,846.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
To get back to the subject: The brain is not a binary processor, nor is the transmission of nerve impulses electrical, but rather chemical at the synapse. The chemical neurotransmitters are of numerous kinds, and there may be feedback from the receptor neuron that inhibits or enhances the emission of the neurotransmitters.
See:
"Neurotransmitter (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Neurotransmitters are endogenous chemicals that enable neurotransmission. They transmit signals across a chemical synapse, such as in a neuromuscular junction, from one neuron (nerve cell) to another "target" neuron, muscle cell, or gland cell. Neurotransmitters are released from synaptic vesicles in synapses into the synaptic cleft, where they are received by receptors on other synapses. Many neurotransmitters are synthesized from simple and plentiful precursors such as amino acids, which are readily available from the diet and only require a small number of biosynthetic steps to convert them. Neurotransmitters play a major role in shaping everyday life and functions. Their exact numbers are unknown but more than 100 chemical messengers have been identified." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro...nsmitters.2C_peptides.2C_and_gasotransmitters

So the brain is definitely not a binary processor.

:oldthumbsup:





In the sense that a neuron either fires or doesn't fire, it is binary. There are certainly analog components as well, but then again, computers can integrate analog components as well.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If cells die after reintroduction to oxygen, that would mean the cells already reached the point of no return, since cells require oxygen to survive.
The objective would be to find a way to clear the enzymes out of the cell before you reintroduce the oxygen. Or perhaps you could give the medics a medicine that would shut down the production of the enzymes to make it easier to resuscitate when the patient gets to the hospital. As you can read in Wiki, "permanent brain cell damage occurs when fresh blood infuses the cell". Up until the point they attempt to resuscitation, the cell is just fine. It would help if I could find where I put those photos.

"After more than 2 decades of clinical trials failed to demonstrate benefit from a host of putative neuroprotective strategies, two clinical trials that were published in 2002 showed that induced mild hypothermia can ameliorate brain injury, improving survival and functional neurologic outcome in comatose survivors of out-of-hospital cardiac arrest."

"CPR is likely to be effective only if commenced within 6 minutes after the blood flow stops[78] because permanent brain cell damage occurs when fresh blood infuses the cells after that time, since the cells of the brain become dormant in as little as 4–6 minutes in an oxygen deprived environment and, therefore, cannot survive the reintroduction of oxygen in a traditional resuscitation. Research using cardioplegic blood infusion resulted in a 79.4% survival rate with cardiac arrest intervals of 72±43 minutes, traditional methods achieve a 15% survival rate in this scenario, by comparison. New research is currently needed to determine what role CPR, electroshock, and new advanced gradual resuscitation techniques will have with this new knowledge.[79]

A notable exception is cardiac arrest that occurs in conjunction with exposure to very cold temperatures. Hypothermia seems to protect by slowing down metabolic and physiologic processes, greatly decreasing the tissues' need for oxygen.[80] There are cases where CPR, defibrillation, and advanced warming techniques have revived victims after substantial periods of hypothermia" wiki
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That the brain operates on a timescale of milliseconds is a fact floating around in the ether for anybody with even a passing interest in science. But it seems to be one which escaped the notice of Justatruthseeker.
I just asked my son about this. A band has a band director or conductors because of the amount of time it takes for the ears to hear the music is slower then they can see the conductor. Of course we all know that light travels faster then sound. So for the music to be synchronized then people must see the conductor and then respond at about the same rate. Not faster or slower then the other players.
 
Upvote 0

lesliedellow

Member
Sep 20, 2010
9,652
2,582
United Kingdom
Visit site
✟104,175.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
I just asked my son about this. A band has a band director or conductors because of the amount of time it takes for the ears to hear the music is slower then they can see the conductor. Of course we all know that light travels faster then sound. So for the music to be synchronized then people must see the conductor and then respond at about the same rate. Not faster or slower then the other players.

Not sure what the point is you are trying to make. For all practical purposes the speed of light can be thought of as infinite, unless you are doing some esoteric experiment in physics - or you are an astronomer.
 
Upvote 0

stevevw

inquisitive
Nov 4, 2013
12,750
964
Brisbane Qld Australia
✟246,828.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
If somebody on an alien planet was having the evolution of life on Earth explained to him for the first time, he might imagine that there was a single cell organism A. Then the environment changed, and natural selection produced single cell organism B, which in turn evolved into single cell organism C, and so on.

What he would have no reason at all to postulate is the emergence of fabulously complex organisms such as us, because it is by no means clear that natural selection implies that.
Not just that but if we say that a single celled organism A was produced on earth then it should have been produced in many places in the universe. If we accept that life evolved then that same mechanism is at work all over the universe. The organism A you speak of was formed in an alien environment. If it could have formed in that alien environment on earth then it can do so in other places in the universe. In fact it should be everywhere that there is some sort of liquid or was some sort of liquid in the past. Bacteria can survive in hostile environments so this would imply that some sort of life can survive anywhere and everywhere there is liquid of any sort. But so far we have found zilch even on mars which you would think would have some being closest to earth.
 
Upvote 0

whois

rational
Mar 7, 2015
2,521
119
✟3,336.00
Faith
Non-Denom
That the brain operates on a timescale of milliseconds is a fact floating around in the ether for anybody with even a passing interest in science. But it seems to be one which escaped the notice of Justatruthseeker.
well see, that's the thing.
i get what justa is saying.
the ability to instantly assimilate your field of view for example.
our fastest super computers can't even come close to this.
but yet the brain does, at a mere fraction of the speed and energy.

the ability to blindfold yourself and go into a room and someone tells you to ad lib on the red object.
the blindfold is removed and off you go.
this sort of thing is light years beyond what current technology can do, we aren't even close to accomplishing this.
and that is just one item, never mind audio, balance as you walk, the every day sensations.
all of this from a 3 pound mass operating at a few hundred hertz and about 20 watts.
no, current technology will NEVER achieve this.
 
Upvote 0

[serious]

'As we treat the least of our brothers...' RIP GA
Site Supporter
Aug 29, 2006
15,100
1,716
✟72,846.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I just asked my son about this. A band has a band director or conductors because of the amount of time it takes for the ears to hear the music is slower then they can see the conductor. Of course we all know that light travels faster then sound. So for the music to be synchronized then people must see the conductor and then respond at about the same rate. Not faster or slower than the other players.
Let's assume a 10 meter stage. The speed of sound is 340 m/s. That means it takes 29 milliseconds for the sound to get from one side of the stage to the other. Unsurprisingly, we can detect a delay of 29 milliseconds. Light travels that distance in 33 nanoseconds. We cannot detect a delay of 33 nanoseconds.

The brain works on the scale of milliseconds, not nanoseconds as demonstrated by your example.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Let's assume a 10 meter stage. The speed of sound is 340 m/s. That means it takes 29 milliseconds for the sound to get from one side of the stage to the other. Unsurprisingly, we can detect a delay of 29 milliseconds. Light travels that distance in 33 nanoseconds. We cannot detect a delay of 33 nanoseconds.

The brain works on the scale of milliseconds, not nanoseconds as demonstrated by your example.
I can compensate for that delay. When we sing in church I can sing ahead of behind or with the rest of the people. So I do not exactly see the need for a director.
 
Upvote 0

Justatruthseeker

Newbie
Site Supporter
Jun 4, 2013
10,132
996
Tulsa, OK USA
✟155,004.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
The problem with this particular layman is that he "knows" more about astrophysics than all the astrophysicists on the planet put together, and now he "knows" everything there is to know about both computer science and neurology.

No, I just know more about plasma physics than any astrophysicist and don't ignore that 99% of the universe is plasma. It's called research - just like they could be doing but are not. Just as you could be doing but are not. Your ignorance about how it behaves is no-ones fault but your own.

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1970/alfven-lecture.pdf

"The cosmical plasma physics of today is far less advanced than the thermonuclear research physics. It is to some extent the playground of theoreticians who have never seen a plasma in a laboratory. Many of them still believe in formulae which we know from laboratory experiments to be wrong. The astrophysical correspondence to the thermonuclear crisis has not yet come."

But it is on the doorstep as we speak.

I just know that single particles can not be treated like clumps of matter - nor can their charge be calculated from clumps of matter.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2008/10apr_moondustinthewind/

""We've had some surprising results," says Abbas "We're finding that individual dust grains do not act the same as larger amounts of moon dust put together. Existing theories based on calculations of the charge of a large amount of moondust don't apply to the moondust at the single particle level."

I'm not surprised at the results - only they are - it is what one would expect if they understood anything about particle physics and electromagnetic theory.

I just don't need to ignore the science to promote Fairie Dust. They should know too and have no-one to blame for their ignorance but themselves for refusing to get with the plasma physicists and figure out how plasma really behaves. So what's your excuse for ignoring 200+ years of laboratory experiments with plasma and continuing to preach formula plasma physicists know "to be wrong"?

Besides not wanting to give up your pre-concieved beliefs in Fairie Dust?

But I am still waiting for that one laboratory experiment with plasma in which any theory but particle physics and electromagnetic theory was applied to the behavior and charge of plasma that I asked you to provide to support your statements?????


And we both know I will be waiting till the end of time for you to provide any science at all.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Justatruthseeker

Newbie
Site Supporter
Jun 4, 2013
10,132
996
Tulsa, OK USA
✟155,004.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Ah, so we have gone from "God is energy" to "God is an electrical charge".

Positive or negative?

both, unless you can convince me only one exists in the universe and all matter is one or the other and all our science is mistaken????

Are such pathetic strawmen all you have?

So what IS electric charge???? What is energy???? Let's test your knowledge. At least if you look up the answer you'll know, kinda.
 
Upvote 0