Depression

dysert said:

I must disagree. It's not "simply" a state of mind. It can be chemicals that have messed things up, and sometimes the only way to compensate is with other chemicals (e.g., SSRIs). "Fake it until you make it" doesn't work in these cases.

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If depression could be eliminated by chemicals, we should not have a single depressed person in North America, since chemicals abound, and for every ailment there is "medication". Depression is a spiritual ailment.

Job8 said:

If depression could be eliminated by chemicals, we should not have a single depressed person in North America, since chemicals abound, and for every ailment there is "medication". Depression is a spiritual ailment.

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What evidence are you using to come to that conclusion? Please share.

Job8 said:

If depression could be eliminated by chemicals, we should not have a single depressed person in North America, since chemicals abound, and for every ailment there is "medication". Depression is a spiritual ailment.

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Depression *may* be a spiritual ailment, and it may also be psychological, and it may also be chemical. That's why there are doctors that can figure it out and work on addressing it. To say it's *only* spiritual or only psychological does an extreme disservice to those of us with a chemical problem.

ToBeLoved said:

What evidence are you using to come to that conclusion? Please share.

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Here's a quote from the Mayo Clinic website:

It's not known exactly what causes depression. As with many mental disorders, a variety of factors may be involved, such as:...

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Here's another quote from Harvard Health publications:

It’s often said that depression results from a chemical imbalance, but that figure of speech doesn’t capture how complex the disease is. Research suggests that depression doesn’t spring from simply having too much or too little of certain brain chemicals. Rather, depression has many possible causes, including faulty mood regulation by the brain, genetic vulnerability, stressful life events, medications, and medical problems. It’s believed that several of these forces interact to bring on depression.

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dysert said:

That's why there are doctors that can figure it out and work on addressing it.

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The only doctor who can deal with depression is the Great Physician -- Christ, and the Divine Comforter -- the Holy Spirit.

Job8 said:

The only doctor who can deal with depression is the Great Physician -- Christ, and the Divine Comforter -- the Holy Spirit.

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And I still say God gave us doctors and medicines to help us, if we use them properly. Not everyone is perfect Job8.

Job8 said:

Here's a quote from the Mayo Clinic website:


Here's another quote from Harvard Health publications:

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I guess your own sources shot down that it is a spiritual problem or that it only has one or two sources of origin.

zippy2 said:

And I still say God gave us doctors and medicines to help us, if we use them properly. Not everyone is perfect Job8.

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lol.

Amen.

Job8 said:

Here's a quote from the Mayo Clinic website:


Here's another quote from Harvard Health publications:

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Supports what some of us have been saying all along. Thanks for the quotes.

ToBeLoved said:

I guess your own sources shot down that it is a spiritual problem or that it only has one or two sources of origin.

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No they did not. Since they deliberately avoid mentioning the spiritual dimension, you could not expect them to say anything in that regard. However they did establish two things which were necessary to clear the air: (a) the medical profession admits that they really do not know the cause of depression and (b) chemical imbalance in the brain is really not the root cause. So now that that is out of the way, Christians should focus on the spiritual dimension.

Yea, whatever.

zippy2 said:

Yea, whatever.

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My sentiment exactly.

My wife has clinical depression; the Lord has led us to seek deliverance for her depression. Specifically, by studying this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Warfare-Christians-Demonization-Deliverance/dp/1936488337

I have clinical depression. The Lord led me to great psychiatrist who got me on the necessary medication

dysert said:

I have clinical depression. The Lord led me to great psychiatrist who got me on the necessary medication

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Yes, it can be done. It is just finding the right doctor and the doctor finding the right meds. I was on Lexapro for years and it worked good, but I guess my body got used to it or something now I am on Wellbutrin and Prozac. Works wonders and I don't have any side affects. I use Zanac for anxiety attacks (seldom). Sometimes it takes a longtime to get the mix right, but I sure don't have the dark depression I used to have years ago.

zippy2 said:

Yes, it can be done. It is just finding the right doctor and the doctor finding the right meds. I was on Lexapro for years and it worked good, but I guess my body got used to it or something now I am on Wellbutrin and Prozac. Works wonders and I don't have any side affects. I use Zanac for anxiety attacks (seldom). Sometimes it takes a longtime to get the mix right, but I sure don't have the dark depression I used to have years ago.

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That's great, zippy2. It sure was a struggle for me at first, when we were doing the trial-and-error bit of trying to find the right cocktail.

For you name-it-and-claim-it folks, I did get anointed and had the deacons lay hands on me in prayer. Nothing happened. So I went the secular route. I even had ECT - boy was that a mistake! The Effexor and Abilify mix is working well. Ativan for anxiety.

I have clinical depression too. I also have been diagnosed with bipolar 1. I'm on Abilify, Lithium, Zoloft and Wellbutrin. Without the meds, I'm not sure if I'd be alive or in prison or dead. So it controls the mood swings of bipolar, but not the depression. When I am happy, I find out later that I was manic during that happy time. Go figure!

I don't know what causes clinical depression either. I want to say words have power to release chemicals stored in the brain. So God's word can in fact release the right chemicals to help ease the depression. So it's a chemical problem that can find relief two ways: meds can help regulate the pain, and words/talk therapy can too. I'm not siding completely with Job8, because for several reasons. But I can say for certain that words have power.

With a diagnosis such as mine, OCD plays a roll too. OCD takes the form of not being able to focus, or even explain how I feel anymore. I can't get talk therapy to work anymore because I don't know what to talk about. It's too fast, too complicated, too confusing and too scrambled for me to have the ability to explain what's on my mind. I can only say this much, that what's on my mind now is what's been on my mind for 24 years. I got this condition when I stressed out way too much in college. And I don't know if I'll ever be able to explain it to someone. Until I meet Christ, who knows all and knows my mind, I plan on hanging on and try to enjoy the ride. But it's awful discouraging and disheartening much of the time.

I really wish Christians would start taking mental illness more seriously in our society.

To those who have expressed opinions without knowing what these illnesses really are about, I would remind you of Jesus and how he was with the Leper's. No one would touch a Leper much less be anywhere near them. They lived in caves and houses totally withdrawn from society and suffered mightily because of their disease. Jesus however was kind to them, welcomed them with outstretched arms and even healed them. Those who strive to be like our Lord should remember this and pray for others with illnesses that they both do understand and that they do not understand.

I am so glad to hear all these good reports from those who have these illnesses. I agree there is not a one-size fits all diagnosis for everyone. So glad to hear that you are all doing so well.

God Bless.

ToBeLoved said:

I really wish Christians would start taking mental illness more seriously in our society.

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As long as the medical and psychiatric professions willingly and deliberately ignore the spiritual dimension of human beings and the existence of evil spirits and Satan himself, you will not get either a proper diagnosis nor proper treatment for those who have mental or psychological issues.

Western "medicine" chooses to simply ignore something which exists (and Scripture confirms that it exists) but which they are not willing or prepared to deal with. Even the shamans and medicine men have more sense (not that they are being recommended).

So to all those whose doctors told them they had "clinical depression" and prescribed medication, did any of those doctors even hint at the spiritual dimension? And if not, did you challenge them about their wilful ignorance and blindness?

Job8 said:

As long as the medical and psychiatric professions willingly and deliberately ignore the spiritual dimension of human beings and the existence of evil spirits and Satan himself, you will not get either a proper diagnosis nor proper treatment for those who have mental or psychological issues.

Western "medicine" chooses to simply ignore something which exists (and Scripture confirms that it exists) but which they are not willing or prepared to deal with. Even the shamans and medicine men have more sense (not that they are being recommended).

So to all those whose doctors told them they had "clinical depression" and prescribed medication, did any of those doctors even hint at the spiritual dimension? And if not, did you challenge them about their wilful ignorance and blindness?

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Believe it or not, this is a little like evolution vs. creationism. The evolutionists are driven by science, which by its very nature does not address the supernatural. Science, and most doctors, address the physical condition and not the supernatural. None of the psychiatrists I went to talked about the spiritual dimension; nor would I expect them to. Conversely, I also saw a nouthetic counselor. He didn't talk about medication. It's like there's two separate and distinct worlds, and there is no bridge between them.

What I can tell you is that I tried the spiritual route, and it was a bust. I tried the psychiatric route and my depression has stabilized. Are you going to tell me I didn't have enough faith, and that's why I wasn't healed?