Sums it all up in my opinion...

I apologize to all the people who will be confused my me "liking" all the pro-EPA, pro-"socialist" posters on this thread where they attack the utter callous stupidity of their opponents from the Right, whereas in the "Cops lives matter" thread I liked all the pro-cop people. Hey, it's so obvious that "Black Lives Matter" instigates the violence and cop-killing they chant for, just as it's reactionary "Gilded Age" nonsense for us to worry about the WORD "socialism" about beneficial government programs we already have and some possible future improvements like Single Payer Healthcare like most other advanced nations already have. (We're backward in the U. S. spending tons more on healthcare with the money going to insurers, hospitals, and medical corporations instead of to patient care and non-toxic cures.)

gpldisciple said:

The greatest ignorance of all, is ignorance of God.
Welcome to my ignore list.
I pray God reveals himself to you.
Good day.

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Add me too. Nothing I say will benefit such a mind as yours. God bless you--you need Him.

gpldisciple said:

I what way is what I said not true? Is ignorance of God not the greatest ignorance of all?

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No, the greatest ignorance of all is the ignorance of not knowing humanity.

gpldisciple said:

The greatest ignorance of all, is ignorance of God.
Welcome to my ignore list.
I pray God reveals himself to you.
Good day.

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I, personally, am far from ignorant of God. I know all about God. I mean, I live in North America. I can hardly go a day without hearing about God. Especially since I visit CF on a regular basis.

I find it odd that some people, not you specifically, will say things like "Have you heard about how Jesus sacrificed Himself to save you from your sins?" Um, yeah, I live in a Western society where Christianity is the the primary religion and permeates our culture. I've totally heard of it. Yet I hear all the time Christians trying to tell us godless heathens about Jesus. As if we don't already know about Him. You might as well be asking if I know about an animated television program called The Simpsons.

Korah said:

I apologize to all the people who will be confused my me "liking" all the pro-EPA, pro-"socialist" posters on this thread where they attack the utter callous stupidity of their opponents from the Right, whereas in the "Cops lives matter" thread I liked all the pro-cop people. Hey, it's so obvious that "Black Lives Matter" instigates the violence and cop-killing they chant for, just as it's reactionary "Gilded Age" nonsense for us to worry about the WORD "socialism" about beneficial government programs we already have and some possible future improvements like Single Payer Healthcare like most other advanced nations already have. (We're backward in the U. S. spending tons more on healthcare with the money going to insurers, hospitals, and medical corporations instead of to patient care and non-toxic cures.)

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You are entitled to your opinion but it deserves to be mentioned as that ... rather than claimed to be factual.

Thanks for stating your opinion clearly ... in this "opinion" thread.

NightHawkeye said:

Agreed ... the question becomes whether to let them settle back into the earth they came out of or to do something else with them, doesn't it?

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Well, again, you don't seem to truly understand the issue at hand. The rocks ("tailings") are now big chunks and fine dust mixed together. It is far more accessible to water which leaches out the metals from the rocks.

It would take millions of years for it to "settle back into the earth" and that would be helped if there were some method of actually breaking it down finer in order to make a coherent rock from it again or at least some method of cementing it together. But then you have to add in that the miners were not as ignorant about the rocks as you appear to be and they probably mined nearest the mineralization meaning they further concentrated the tailings with metals in them.

Your "plan" such as it is has a fatal flaw: you don't understand geology or mining.

If one does something else with them, then what should be done?

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I already provided at least one set of answers for you (but you probably have me on ignore knowing that when you venture into science areas you usually have me come in and clean up your mess).

Obviously, flushing them down the river was not a great plan ... though the EPA has argued that the contamination was minimal ... as evidenced by the lack of dead fish discovered.

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The Animas river had already suffered fish loss before the spill. In no small part from the long-standing acid mine drainage in the area.

The miners did not create the toxic materials though.

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Actually they DID. By disturbing the original intact rock. This is not to say that water wouldn't leach through the rock and wash out nasty metals but when you break the rock up the process gets a LOT faster and more efficient.

They left them where they would be undisturbed

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It frightens me to see how easily you spout this stuff. You clearly know next to nothing about this topic yet you declare things with confidence.

I hope at least someone else has gained from my cleaning up your mess on a science topic (yet again!)

amanuensis63 said:

It would take millions of years for it to "settle back into the earth" and that would be helped if there were some method of actually breaking it down finer in order to make a coherent rock from it again or at least some method of cementing it together. But then you have to add in that the miners were not as ignorant about the rocks as you appear to be and they probably mined nearest the mineralization meaning they further concentrated the tailings with metals in them.

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We seem to be in agreement that the miners were knowledgeable.

amanuensis63 said:

Your "plan" such as it is has a fatal flaw: you don't understand geology or mining.

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Noting that I didn't spill several million gallons of toxic sludge into the Animas River either.

The EPA took responsibility for doing that.

amanuensis63 said:

I already provided at least one set of answers for you (but you probably have me on ignore knowing that when you venture into science areas you usually have me come in and clean up your mess).

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ROTFL ... Wrong on both counts Amanuensis. Why would I put you on ignore? Your posts often deserve rebuttal.

Your article was a collection of a half-dozen possible ways to attempt to minimize the impact of acid and toxic metal residue ... and was heavily caveated with qualifiers, such as how the indicated actions could make toxic metal contamination considerably worse under some conditions.

amanuensis63 said:

The Animas river had already suffered fish loss before the spill. In no small part from the long-standing acid mine drainage in the area.

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Having visited the area just after the spill and seen the Animas first-hand from Silverton to Durango, I can tell you that the locals are not happy with the EPA. The native Americans who are downstream seem to be even more displeased. Just sayin ...

NightHawkeye said:

We seem to be in agreement that the miners were knowledgeable.

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Moreso than you!

Having visited the area just after the spill and seen the Animas first-hand from Silverton to Durango, I can tell you that the locals are not happy with the EPA. The native Americans who are downstream seem to be even more displeased. Just sayin ...

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But you ignore the fact that the Animas was contaminated BEFORE the spill as well, perhaps not as catastrophically. That in fact the Animas has been under investigation in the early 1990's.

In fact here's the background:

"EPA and the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment (CDPHE) conducted a Superfund Site Assessment of the site in the 1990s. This assessment identified the severe impacts to aquatic life in the UA and its tributaries from naturally occurring and mining-related heavy metals." (SOURCE)

Learn something ONCE before you speak. JUST SOMETHING! I beg of you!

amanuensis63 said:

Moreso than you!

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Of course you are. Repetition is the key to that phrase working, Amanuensis.

You haven't said it nearly enough for me to believe it yet.

amanuensis63 said:

But you ignore the fact that the Animas was contaminated BEFORE the spill as well, perhaps not as catastrophically. That in fact the Animas has been under investigation in the early 1990's.

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The tale of two rivers ...



The last time I saw the Animas it looked like the image on the right. All the earlier times it looked like the river on the left.

amanuensis63 said:

In fact here's the background:

"EPA and the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment (CDPHE) conducted a Superfund Site Assessment of the site in the 1990s. This assessment identified the severe impacts to aquatic life in the UA and its tributaries from naturally occurring and mining-related heavy metals." (SOURCE)

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Yes ... if only they'd known half as much as they thought they knew about how to make it better.

Incidentally, in today's news ...
Navajo Nation preps lawsuit against EPA over mine spill | The Hill

These are the kinds of threads that make me come here less often.

gpldisciple said:

The plan was set in motion, and we are now seeing the results, the fall of our once blessed nation.

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God will do for this nation what He says He will do in His Word. I personally think this nation is hugely favored by God and wants favorable things for it. Verses like 2 Chron 7:14 show that good will come for the nation whose people are humble and repentent before God. De 30:19 says to choose life -- we have the choice. With the rate of Christian churches in the US being vacated at about 7000 per year, we would have to conclude that life is not being chosen in this nation.

NightHawkeye said:

Yes ... if only they'd known half as much as they thought they knew about how to make it better.

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The U. S. Government EPA did indeed know beforehand. That's why they always wanted to create a Superfund cleanup there.
Why didn't they?
Because the LOCALS, the ones now suffering at least the loss of tourist revenue, fought the EPA so that they could keep hiding from the public the dangers in the pollution that REPUBLICAN ERA PRIVATE ENTERPRISE had caused. They kept on hiding until PRIVATE CONTRACTORS were negligent in keeping the mine owner's tailings from keeping on over-spilling.

gpldisciple said:

Is ignorance of God not the greatest ignorance of all?

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Which God are you talking about? Thor, Zeus or Mithras? or is it your own personal favourite?

CGL1023 said:

God will do for this nation what He says He will do in His Word. I personally think this nation is hugely favored by God and wants favorable things for it. Verses like 2 Chron 7:14 show that good will come for the nation whose people are humble and repentent before God. De 30:19 says to choose life -- we have the choice. With the rate of Christian churches in the US being vacated at about 7000 per year, we would have to conclude that life is not being chosen in this nation.

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Either that or people are starting to realise that religion is just one big hoax, 3 million church goers stop going to church every year in the US and the numbers will only increase as the years go by, soon unbelievers will outnumber believers.
Who would have ever thought that could happen, it's happening because people are beginning to wise up to the fact that they have been taken for a ride for far too long.

Aldebaran said:

USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republic).
Perhaps you'd like to see the "S" in USA to stand for "Socialists" as well?

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Stalinist Russia and Maoist China. The only two examples of socialist nations in the history of the planet. Scandinavia is just a story made up to scare naughty children.

Armoured said:

Stalinist Russia and Maoist China. The only two examples of socialist nations in the history of the planet. Scandinavia is just a story made up to scare naughty children.

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Most civilised countries have a Democratic Socialist system in place, that why most people in those countries are happier with their system than most Americans are with theirs.

This about sums up what the average American should be striving for.

Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect their lives.

Democracy and socialism go hand in hand. All over the world, wherever the idea of democracy has taken root, the vision of socialism has taken root as well—everywhere but in the United States. Because of this, many false ideas about socialism have developed in the US.

NightHawkeye said:

The tale of two rivers ...

The last time I saw the Animas it looked like the image on the right. All the earlier times it looked like the river on the left.

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So you think that just because you can't see it it isn't a problem? Got it!

Yes ... if only they'd known half as much as they thought they knew about how to make it better.

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The miners created the problem which festered for 70+ years causing real ecological damage. Contractors hired by the EPA to start the process of testing in order to clean up the ongoing poisoning of the river made a very bad mistake and made a bad situation worse.

You aren't even worthy of a debate on this. You don't know enough of what you are talking about and if there's one thing I've learned after debating you before you will never admit you don't know this stuff.

Goodbye.

gpldisciple said:

The plan was set in motion, and we are now seeing the results, the fall of our once blessed nation.

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I just Googled the quote your meme gave and I couldn't find any sources for it other than right-wing blogs.

By the way, the John Birch Society has a store if you're looking for tools to fight the Communist threat. Did you know President Eisenhower is in league with the Kremlin?