Introspection about Nagging and Criticism

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
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I agree with you that the 'competition of genders' thing is a problem on the forum. But I'm looking at it from a different perspective. But what I see is when someone brings up marriage problems that certain women cause, that certain posters don't like women being characterized a certain way. And back when it was allowed to discuss a woman's Biblical responsibilities in marriage (in Ephesians 5, Colossians 3, I Peter 3), many posters wanted to argue them away, but of course keep a man's responsibilities in marriage (Ephesians 5).
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The fact some posters in the past (and we probably have a bit different group now) fight against women taking any blame has come up on the forum, but I've also seen it discussed a bit on the married men's forum (which has pretty much been dead for quite a while.)

That's not what's going on---as much as your'e trying to make this fit that scenario. It has *nothing* to do with "fighting against women taking any blame". I would actually like this issue broadened to include more subtle and insidious types of abuse (that women can display as well as men). You seem to want a specific "picture to be painted" (and said as much earlier in this thread) and are supporting this verbiage. I think that's just as limiting as the "monster" picture that can be painted for a specific type of male abuser. Both are destructive for people to hold to (while not being able to wrap their brains around "nice" people committing some heinous crimes). That's a huge mental stumbling block. I've explained enough what my objections are and am not going to continue going along with your harping on the issue.
 
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mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
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Some of the men agreed they were guilty to some degree, some of the women said they guilty to some degree, but none of the men and women said they were innocent of everything of what was discussed in this article or even a side track of similarities.

That's really good to hear that your group didn't look at this as narrowly as it was written. In case your pastor is looking for material that's along these lines (the beginning of the article)....but a bit more in-depth, I think Chip Ingram's small group study is a good one (http://livingontheedge.org/series/experiencing-gods-dream-for-your-marriage/daily-radio). If you scroll towards the bottom, there are two parts that are specifically about conflict resolution (but I think it's all valuable information and insight, personally).
 
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mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
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Mkgal1,
I thought you were against the use of the word 'harping.'

Btw, I wouldn't have brought the issue up if you hadn't raised it. I was just responding to your post.

I am trying to broaden the use of the word (instead of it being typically assigned to females). ;) <----What is up with these smiles?

You're responding---but it seems to me that you've missed my points in all my other posts so it's not worth it to me to make any more attempts to clarify.
 
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mkgal1

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Mkgal1, I'm talking about the Duluth model. Wikipedia tells some of the criticisms of the model. This is another page of criticisms.

http://www.batteredmen.com/batdulut.htm

This is the Deluth Model wheel you're referring to

duluth.gif


it's not used to shame people---it's more about educating/informing people about what's going on (a lot of times people don't even understand that what they're experiencing is abuse). I don't even understand how this is offensive, personally.

ETA: This is the first I've heard "Deluth Model" and have now looked it up, here: http://www.theduluthmodel.org/about/index.html

I still don't know if that's the intention of this thread to discuss this, so I'll wait before I comment further.
 
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mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
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Your link to "MenWeb" says this (I used this link: http://www.donotlink.com/framed?715318 )


John Everingham said:
The Duluth Model preaches that men who batter don't have a personal problem, but are simply reflecting "a culture that teaches men to dominate." John Everingham, co-author of Men Healing Shame and a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, calls this "shame of male for being male." But shaming is a cause of rage, not a cure for it.

So....that's what you're buying into? That domination = being male?

If the Duluth model "preaches that men who batter don't have a personal problem, but are reflecting a culture that teaches men to dominate"......then how is that "shameful" anyway? I understand "shame" to mean something a person can't change (like something that can't be undone b/c it's in the past). Do you believe that men can't help but be dominating and abusive?

That alone may be too much to unpack easily. Is that your intention for this thread (to discuss how men are shamed---or is that just an offset remark in retaliation for my comments about "nagging")? Please advise.
 
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LinkH

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mgal1,
Part of the abuse wheel and the Duluth model are based on feminist ideology. Notice the 'gender privilege", which can make a non-feminist want to throw up in his her mouth. It's the idea that women are victims of the patriarchy, that patriarchy suppresses women-- that whole philosophy.

I find the underlying philosophy to be false and potentially damaging. The creation is a patriarchy and is supposed to be. God is the Patriarch, the Father, ruler over all things. I also see the tendency toward male rule in government and society, which we see in history, as an outgrowth of God's creation order. So of course, I don't agree with the underlying assumptions of the Duluth model.

Now, I know a lot of men who have to take some sort of training have problems with violence, so a lot of them get themselves into this mess, the mess of having to take some kind of feminist anger management course from an ideology who has been indoctrinated by anti-male philosophy. Some of the guys who get arrested for domestic violence are married to violent women and don't report them, or it doesn't get taken seriously. If he snaps and hits her back, she can easily call the police and have him hauled off.


Here is the opinion of a man who was subjected to an anger management class based on this ideology

In November of 1989 I attended my last meeting of Delta which is an anger management program for abusive men modeled after the Duluth Model. It was also the last that I saw my children for three months. I went to the west to work in the oil field hoping to stablize my family financially and win back my wife's heart.

In the mirror program called Renaissance, which my wife attended, she was told that I was the root problem of her dysfunction, the root problem of my dysfunction and the root problem of our marriage. As this caused me a considerable amount of grief, I shared it with the group. The facilitator told me, "She's most likely right."

I wanted to die!


It wasn't relevent that she has assaulted six men.

It wasn't relevent that two were severe. In her words, "I beat the @%&@ out of them."

It wasn't relevent that she continually verbally abused the children.

It wasn't relevent that she used me as a weapon to disipline the children.

It wasn't relevent that she was alienated from her father as a child.

It wasn't relevent that her mother was a drunk and a harlot.

It wasn't relevent that her father fought for custody and lost.

It wasn't relevent that she was raised by her Aunt.

It wasn't relevent that when intorducted to her Aunt for the first time she said to me, "This is my real mother."


It was relevent that I was male.

It was relevent that I was oppressing her.

It was relevent that I was a controller.

It was relevent that I was a lousy father.

It was relevent that I was a lousy husband.

It was relevent that I was raised in a violent family.

It was relevent that I lived in a patriarchy.

It was relevent that a patriarch requires violence or the threat of violence to maintain itself.


For the four days it took to drive out west I contemplated taking my own life. I had everything I owned in the back of my truck. Hitting a tree head on would have freed my wife and children of the bastard that I was and left no trace of my miserable life.


Anger management for men is such bull...

[I replaced one word with @%&@]


The man has some anger issues, but I can see how a feminism-based anger management program could be counter-productive in addition to being a form of psychological torture, especially if they don't let you complete the program unless you say, "I see five lights."
 
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mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
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mgal1,
Part of the abuse wheel and the Duluth model are based on feminist ideology. Notice the 'gender privilege", which can make a non-feminist want to throw up in his her mouth. It's the idea that women are victims of the patriarchy, that patriarchy suppresses women-- that whole philosophy.

That seems like a lot of rheotoric that doesn't really say much at all. But......I'll leave it at that since it's really not your intention to discuss all that.
 
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