How many dozens of Christians did creationism drive away this past hour?

Smidlee said:

Can you think of another known source for large amounts of code?

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Can you support your claim?

USincognito said:

You are talking about "code" as if it were this definite thing. I am noting that DNA is chemicals interacting and the 64 codons that comprise the code interact as chemicals do.



Are you unable to answer my question?

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Almost all code have chemicals interactions involved. Right now I read the "codes" off this page through chemical interactions happening in my eyeballs which sends an digital code to my brain which also works off chemicals then my brain sends signals to my hands which also works off chemicals and typing this code right here through the internet.
The code is not the matter which the code is written or rides on.
Claiming DNA is just chemical interaction is like claiming a movie is just a bunch of color pixels and a vibrating speaker. What bring the movie to life is my brain receiving the light signal from my eyes and sound from my ears and interpreting the data to make sense in the real world.

Have you ever notice the big connection between "code, words and information" with life? Words are the product of a living mind. They don't exist outside of a mind.

This is why SETI is searching the heavens for a "code" as that would mean "life".

Smidlee said:

Almost all code have chemicals interactions involved. Right now I read the "codes" off this page through chemical interactions happening in my eyeballs which sends an digital code to my brain which also works off chemicals then my brain sends signals to my hands which also works off chemicals and typing this code right here through the internet.

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How is that any different than this code?

2H2 + O2 ------> 2H20

rider99 said:

There is no singular mentality in science and no singular reason people choose it as a profession.

Speculation. You can't judge the motivations of others. The private sector is more lucrative, academia is safer.

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Nonsense. People don't go into academics to get wealthy. I don't need to speculate.

rider99 said:

You also see scientists complaining that if they speak up against the fabricated evidence regarding global warming that they will be ostracised and will lose grant money. If your faith is based on what can be conclusively proven you don't have any faith in the first place. Faith is the acceptance of things unproven. As for the mercenary scientists, it's all about the grant money. No crisis, no grant money. No grant money, no job.

Conjecture. You don't know what they'll discover. They may discover, for example, that life after death has a MUCH more significant body of evidence than anyone wants to let on. As for the relationship between science and reality, my grandchildren will know that science is the study of the physical world and is limited to that. Period. If a scientist says that there is no proof of the supernatural the logical response is "Really, Sherlock? What gave you the first clue?"

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Wat.

This is backwards. The big money is in oil/coal.

The Cadet said:

agents.

But the assumption that DNA is a "code" in the sense you mean it is a classic creationist trope that simply doesn't apply. If I look at the water dripping onto my windowsill right now, I could impose a code onto it, a code dependent on how the water drips and how long it is between drips. Does that mean that the dripping water is a "code" that required a designer? No. We looked at a simple natural manifestation of something and implied that it was a code. Similarly, we can look at DNA, and impose a code onto it (and I will freely admit that this is pretty easy to do), but in reality, it's just chemistry.

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It's intelligence that gives any code meaning.
for example 1) "0110010100010010001000100010001000100100001001" and 2) "have a nice day" can be both codes. Codes must be read and cause a response. Both 1 and 2 is just black and white dots . The first may only make sense in a certain position in a computer program while the 2 we know the "code" is called "English". Now if someone doesn't understand "English" .. like a rat then no information is received even though it was send out.

The Bible I have on my table physically is nothing but paper and ink. It's the arrangement of ink which makes the difference. The Bible is written in English so the person must understand the "English" code to receive the information. As scripture points out you need must act upon what you receive as you are to be doers of the word. The exact same thing with DNA. DNA by itself is pretty meaningless, Nothing but a butch of chemicals. It's the arrangement of that chemicals which has to be read and response upon which reveal the meaning of the code. I know it's hard for you to understand but the "code" is totally separate than the chemicals which the code ride upon. Codes either rides on matter or energy but the code itself has no mass.

Computer virus works very similar with living virus which is how it got it name. The code doesn't reveal itself until it is read and understood. This is why at first most evolutionist believe 98% of human DNA is junk. Junk DNA is that which has no meaning but they were wrong. There was hidden meaning there all along. You can totally reject the existence of a code, as again it has no mass, but that doesn't mean it's not there or it's less real than the matter/energy which it rides upon.

Smidlee said:

It's intelligence that gives any code meaning.
for example 1) "0110010100010010001000100010001000100100001001" and 2) "have a nice day" can be both codes. Codes must be read and cause a response. Both 1 and 2 is just black and white dots . The first may only make sense in a certain position in a computer program while the 2 we know the "code" is called "English". Now if someone doesn't understand "English" .. like a rat then no information is received even though it was send out.

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Exactly. So the "code" we see there doesn't actually exist until we interpret it into the object.

The exact same thing with DNA. DNA by itself is pretty meaningless, Nothing but a butch of chemicals. It's the arrangement of that chemicals which has to be read and response upon which reveal the meaning of the code.

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...But the proteins don't do that. They don't "reveal the meaning of the code". They take a sequence of mechanistic objects, and act in a way that is dictated by the laws of physics. There's no interpretation going on there. It's all just chemistry. The "code" is later interpreted onto the object by us. We look at the sequences of base pairs and say, "Huh, this looks like a code" and then we try to decode it, and find that it does different things with different sequences. But how does that indicate design? We, intelligent beings, have looked at a natural sequence of inputs and analogized that to a code. That doesn't make it a code, though, any more than the droplets of water on my windowsill are a code.

I'm done with debating or arguing with anyone on this thread, but if anyone is curious at all what the Bible has to say on these topics, here we go:

From 2 Peter:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. [You could call that the gradualism of evolutionary theory, where things just follow the same 'ol pattern of changing and changing over time without any Creator, without any sudden acts of creation by Him.]

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of YHWH [aka God] the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Psalm 19: To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.

1 The heavens declare the glory of YHWH; and the firmament shows His handiwork.
2 Day unto day they utter speech, and night unto night show knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

-Romans 1:20

- For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] His eternal power and Godhead; so that they [who do not believe] are without excuse:

Again, I'm not posting to debate. Say anything you want. You get the last word, here, with me. I've done my research on the Bible and on the science, on both sides of the issue. The truth is being presented on this forum, I believe, and all over the net and in bookstores. If people want to see it. Messiah said, "Let those see who have eyes to see." I know what it is to be walking around with the pseudo science of evolution clouding my brain, and I defended it vehemently until I got fair minded and decided to at least honestly look at the other side.

But...it's not really words that help us to see fully. There has to be a willingness to see even the obvious, and that comes from the Holy Spirit.

John 3:8 - The wind bloweth where it wishes, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

One person asks, here, "What am I even doing here?" I think it might be that person (along with some others) was led here, for one thing, so that people would pray for that poster and others here. I certainly have been doing that, and will do so more. May we see "scoffers" in Heavenly realms in the future, filled with light.

If you want to know if He exists, if the Bible is true, if you want to know anything, the One to ask is the Creator. Many people have found, sometimes right on the spot, sometimes over time, that if they simply say, from the heart, things like these that their eyes are opened and their lives are changed: "If you are real, if you are the Almighty, help me to know you. Change my heart. Forgive me of my sins, free me from them, and cause me to know You as Father, Healer, ever present Helper, Friend, Savior."

Jeremiah 29:13

13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.

Matthew 11:28-30, Messiah speaking to you:

Come to me all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

Luke 4:18, Messiah speaking to us all:

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because He has anointed Me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,

What have you got to lose? What have you maybe got to gain? Blessings to all who read these posts, I pray. I care about you because...your Creator, your Father, cares about you.

LoricaLady said:

I'm done with debating or arguing with anyone on this thread,

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DON'T GO!

AV1611VET said:

DON'T GO!

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How sweet and kind of you. Thank you for that. But I just feel like I've said all I, personally, have to say and that it is up to the Holy Spirit to do the rest. It is heart warming to see others speaking up for the truth, though.

LoricaLady said:

How sweet and kind of you. Thank you for that. But I just feel like I've said all I, personally, have to say and that it is up to the Holy Spirit to do the rest. It is heart warming to see others speaking up for the truth, though.

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God bless you!

The Cadet said:

Awesome, thanks.

Romans 1:20 is the most impressive cop-out in ancient literature. "It's totally obvious, anyone who disagrees is not only wrong but lying to themselves". All of this talk that we are "willingly ignorant"... No. We aren't. We're perfectly open to whatever evidence you have to present. It's just that none of it is particularly impressive, and we aren't impressed by faith.

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Blessings to you, child. May the Love of Messiah envelop you. May His Light guide you.

The Cadet said:

All of this talk that we are "willingly ignorant"... No. We aren't. We're perfectly open to whatever evidence you have to present.

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Ahem ... cough.

(Sorry ... got something in my throat.)

[deleted]

AV1611VET said:

Thank you!

ETA: Oops! Sorry! I thought you were talking to me.

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Lol. Well, I am now. May the Love of Messiah envelop you. May His Light guide you.

You seem to have a kind and gentle spirit. That's always good to see. I could use more of that myself!

LoricaLady said:

Lol. Well, I am now. May the Love of Messiah envelop you. May His Light guide you.

You seem to have a kind and gentle spirit. That's always good to see. I could use more of that myself!

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Thank you very much!

I have my moments though!

AV1611VET said:

Thank you very much!

I have my moments though!

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Don't we all.

LoricaLady said:

Blessings to you, child. May the Love of Messiah envelop you. May His Light guide you.

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What was that about getting the last word?

AV1611VET said:

Ahem ... cough.

(Sorry ... got something in my throat.)

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What? I haven't seen you present any evidence for your worldview. In fact, in the other thread you very explicitly stated that you took it on faith.

AV1611VET said:

Thank you very much!

I have my moments though!

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As SFS already stated; don't change AV, keep those moments coming.

Smidlee said:

This is why SETI is searching the heavens for a "code" as that would mean "life".

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.....and failed in the search for decades.

The Cadet said:

We're perfectly open to whatever evidence you have to present. It's just that none of it is particularly impressive, and we aren't impressed by faith.

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You live 99% by faith. Why waste your time typing when you'll be dead the next minute?
It happens to people all the time.