Is there anyone else better than Biden or Trump for President?

[Hans Blaster]

Looked up Wikipedia stats for DC for last two elections, less than 20k active voters for jury pool voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020. The perhaps nonbiased independent, 3rd party, and write in jury pool less than 5% of the active voters. Good luck finding any jurors totally out of touch with politics the last 10 years.

You should look up how jury selection is done first. It's more important than the politics of the potential jury pool.

 

[stevil]

I did. It didn’t work out so great for me.

It's tough, especially when the person a whistle blower or witness is testifying against has a lot of power and support and is vindictive. Just ask Vindman and his brother. But still, it is worth doing.

 

[KCfromNC]

Thought this was supposed to happen in the first few weeks of the term right after Hillary, or was it michelle, was made VP?

Before or after Biden was set up to lose in 2020 so AOC could run in 2024? It's hard keeping all of the far right fan fiction straight these days, given how detached it has become from reality.

 

[sprknjc]

You should look up how jury selection is done first. It's more important than the politics of the potential jury pool.

Here is the quite detailed eight page article https://www.dccourts.gov/sites/default/files/Jury-Plan-2019-Effective-May-2020.pdf . Voter lists first, but it lists other items also which expect would slightly expand the jury pool.

Per Wikipedia 2020 District of Columbia elections - Wikipedia, 344K votes cast 2020 election, 317K for Biden, 19K for Trump, remainder for others.

US Census, https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/DC/PST045223 , select Population Census April 1, 2020 link, Persons under 18 years below that 18.5% so those 18 and older 81.5% of total population reported 690K is 562K. Of that, some will be excluded or excused because of age, criminal record, or disability. Population decreased only 10K in DC to July, 2023 estimate. Nationwide 66.7% of registered voter voted in the 2020 election, so if this percentage applies to DC 344K votes cast, 516K registered voters, so 516K divided by 562K is 92% of residents registered to vote. So there is a pool of 516K less 344K = 172K of no recent voting record (how good that pool is, recent moves out of DC, deceased, served as juror in last 24 months, etc. is up for question). As the DC courts document above indicates, jury selection prior to jurors arriving to court is random, with some exceptions.

Then it is up to the prosecution and defense lawyers to decide on political bias on the potential candidates. Hope they do a good job, so there is not a mistrial.

Very insightful, but may be more information than some want to know. Bottom line the city of Washington, DC is a very heavily Democratic city.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Here is the quite detailed eight page article https://www.dccourts.gov/sites/default/files/Jury-Plan-2019-Effective-May-2020.pdf . Voter lists first, but it lists other items also which expect would slightly expand the jury pool.

Per Wikipedia 2020 District of Columbia elections - Wikipedia, 344K votes cast 2020 election, 317K for Biden, 19K for Trump, remainder for others.

US Census, https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/DC/PST045223 , select Population Census April 1, 2020 link, Persons under 18 years below that 18.5% so those 18 and older 81.5% of total population reported 690K is 562K. Of that, some will be excluded or excused because of age, criminal record, or disability. Population decreased only 10K in DC to July, 2023 estimate. Nationwide 66.7% of registered voter voted in the 2020 election, so if this percentage applies to DC 344K votes cast, 516K registered voters, so 516K divided by 562K is 92% of residents registered to vote. So there is a pool of 516K less 344K = 172K of no recent voting record (how good that pool is, recent moves out of DC, deceased, served as juror in last 24 months, etc. is up for question). As the DC courts document above indicates, jury selection prior to jurors arriving to court is random, with some exceptions.

Then it is up to the prosecution and defense lawyers to decide on political bias on the potential candidates. Hope they do a good job, so there is not a mistrial.

Very insightful, but may be more information than some want to know. Bottom line the city of Washington, DC is a very heavily Democratic city.

I was speaking of the process that turns potential jurors in from the jury pool into an actual jury. The clue was that I gave the actual technical name for it.

 

[Belk]

Here is the quite detailed eight page article https://www.dccourts.gov/sites/default/files/Jury-Plan-2019-Effective-May-2020.pdf . Voter lists first, but it lists other items also which expect would slightly expand the jury pool.

Per Wikipedia 2020 District of Columbia elections - Wikipedia, 344K votes cast 2020 election, 317K for Biden, 19K for Trump, remainder for others.

US Census, https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/DC/PST045223 , select Population Census April 1, 2020 link, Persons under 18 years below that 18.5% so those 18 and older 81.5% of total population reported 690K is 562K. Of that, some will be excluded or excused because of age, criminal record, or disability. Population decreased only 10K in DC to July, 2023 estimate. Nationwide 66.7% of registered voter voted in the 2020 election, so if this percentage applies to DC 344K votes cast, 516K registered voters, so 516K divided by 562K is 92% of residents registered to vote. So there is a pool of 516K less 344K = 172K of no recent voting record (how good that pool is, recent moves out of DC, deceased, served as juror in last 24 months, etc. is up for question). As the DC courts document above indicates, jury selection prior to jurors arriving to court is random, with some exceptions.

Then it is up to the prosecution and defense lawyers to decide on political bias on the potential candidates. Hope they do a good job, so there is not a mistrial.

Very insightful, but may be more information than some want to know. Bottom line the city of Washington, DC is a very heavily Democratic city.

How is their politics relevant? Are you claiming that anyone who did not vote for Trump is incapable of being an impartial juror?

 

[Hans Blaster]

How is their politics relevant? Are you claiming that anyone who did not vote for Trump is incapable of being an impartial juror?

I looked for a document to link for this but I could not find it. Right as Trump appealed the rejection of his ridiculous "presidential immunity" claim the judge in the case was preparing the screening survey for prospective jurors to screen out even before appearing in court anyone who clearly could not be impartial. A number of prospective jurors had started to receive the summons.

 

[stevil]

Many prosecutions of hundreds before, not friendly jury city like New York, and criminal charges involved. Tell me if any way he can get out of it without serious punishment and political fallout.

Well it seems his fan base like him more when he is charged with crimes, They don't mind, or perhaps they like him more when he is found guilty of financial fraud and of sexual assault.
It seems if he is found guilty of causing an insurrection, of lying and obstructing justice in the documents case and of trying to steal the election in the alternative electors case, they might want him more.

Just imagine how much they would love him if he murders someone on 5th avenue that would make him a shoe in for the presidential election.

 

[Vambram]

Just imagine if Trump were actually and truly charged by a court of criminal law with being an insurrectionist?

 

[Vanellus]

No one with any integrity will want the job. If they did something silly or foolish in school, or said the wrong thing, they and their family will be drug through the mud by the press - especially if they are a dreaded "conservative". If they had a good reputation, it is gone in a flash.

Or they can work in the private sector make better money, and be left alone. Which would you choose?

Are you advocating no government or a very different system of government?

 

[stevil]

Just imagine if Trump were actually and truly charged by a court of criminal law with being an insurrectionist?

It seems his popularity would go up.

 

[sprknjc]

Here's an **idea** for the November general election, and then let the popular, not the electoral vote, decide. Let:

* Biden run as a Democrat, and let his probable mental issues hopefully be evaluated at Walter Reed before later this year.

* Trump as Republican (presuming he wins the party nomination in July), and let the resolution of any of his court cases before November decide his fate.

* Robert Kennedy Jr as a moderate Independent. He has already filed to be on state ballots. He has more than 10% of the electorate in recent polls. He has name recognition from being from the family line of John F. Kennedy.

* Haley perhaps as a conservative/moderate Independent, but expect she is waiting to see how things turn out after Super Tuesday March 5. She could file to be on state ballots as an Independent or a different third party name of her own choosing. Evan McMullin as an example launched his Presidential campaign on August 10, 2016. He had some common sense ideas with immigration, etc. see Evan McMullin - Wikipedia , my concern with Trump's temperament at the time him having the nuclear codes once in office. There are Congressional representatives who have switched parties even while in office, so why is this any different?

* DeSantis could resurrect his suspended campaign, he did not totally terminate it, and run as a conservative Independent or choose a different third party name. He had a respectable 21% showing in the Iowa caucus. In ways, not every way, he has some similar views to McMullin. Again, he has time to file as an independent on the vast majority of state ballots.

Never totally figured out why historically we even have the electoral college for President, when other races are solely based on the popular votes? The electoral college has presented major problems in both the 2016 and 2020 elections. If insistance on having a majority in the popular vote at the national level, could use ranked choice voting like Alaska and at least some other states and localities efficiently do - Ranked-choice voting in the United States - Wikipedia .

This idea also mostly solves the write-in issue in such a dvided election.

 

[durangodawood]

Here's an **idea** for the November general election, and then let the popular, not the electoral vote, decide. Let:

* Biden run as a Democrat, and let his probable mental issues hopefully be evaluated at Walter Reed before later this year.

* Trump as Republican and let the resolution of any of his court cases before then decide his fate.

* Robert Kennedy Jr as a moderate Independent, and he has already filed to be on state ballots. He has more than 10% of the electorate in recent polls. He has name recognition from being from the family line of John F. Kennedy.

* Haley perhaps as a conservative/moderate Independent, but expect she is waiting to see how things turn out after Super Tuesday March 5. She could file to be on state ballots as an Independent or a different third party name of her own choosing. Evan McMullin as an example launched his Presidential campaign on August 10, 2016. He had some common sense ideas with immigration, etc. see Evan McMullin - Wikipedia , my concern with Trump's temperament at the time him having the nuclear codes once in office. There are Congressional representatives who have switched parties while in office, so why is this any different?

* DeSantis could resurrect his suspended campaign, he did not totally terminate it, and run as a conservative Independent or choose a different third party name. He had a respectable 21% showing in the Iowa caucus. In ways, not every way, he has some similar views to McMullin. Again, he has time to file as an independent on the vast majority of state ballots.

Never totally figured out why historically we even have the electoral college for President, when other races are solely based on the popular votes? The electoral college has presented problems in both the 2016 and 2020 elections. If insistance on having a majority in the popular vote at the national level, could use ranked choice voting like Alaska and at least some other states and localities efficiently do - Ranked-choice voting in the United States - Wikipedia

...only if there's an "instant runoff" type arrangement so we dont all have to play games about who would be a spoiler for who and many of us end up advancing our least favorite option..

(As for the electoral college, that exists because rural people are better than other Americans and so their votes should count more.)

 

[returntosender]

Of course not! But the newsies are not incredibly invested in getting us out of our two party addiction.

Here is a semi-exhaustive list: Presidential candidates, 2024

Here is a more pared down list, maybe too pared down:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/who-are-candidates-running-2024-us-presidential-election-2023-09-19/

Here's who I'm likely to vote for:

American Solidarity Party

The American Solidarity Party is a Christian democratic party promoting human life, social justice, environmental conservation, and international peace.

www.solidarity-party.org

I would be really interested in this if it was for sure not the Democrats agenda but t would make a bet they are a part of it if not all.
Besides, this was approached before and it was said to be impossible.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Here's an **idea** for the November general election, and then let the popular, not the electoral vote, decide. Let:

* Biden run as a Democrat, and let his probable mental issues hopefully be evaluated at Walter Reed before later this year.

* Trump as Republican and let the resolution of any of his court cases before then decide his fate.

* Robert Kennedy Jr as a moderate Independent. He has already filed to be on state ballots. He has more than 10% of the electorate in recent polls. He has name recognition from being from the family line of John F. Kennedy.

* Haley perhaps as a conservative/moderate Independent, but expect she is waiting to see how things turn out after Super Tuesday March 5. She could file to be on state ballots as an Independent or a different third party name of her own choosing. Evan McMullin as an example launched his Presidential campaign on August 10, 2016. He had some common sense ideas with immigration, etc. see Evan McMullin - Wikipedia , my concern with Trump's temperament at the time him having the nuclear codes once in office. There are Congressional representatives who have switched parties even while in office, so why is this any different?

* DeSantis could resurrect his suspended campaign, he did not totally terminate it, and run as a conservative Independent or choose a different third party name. He had a respectable 21% showing in the Iowa caucus. In ways, not every way, he has some similar views to McMullin. Again, he has time to file as an independent on the vast majority of state ballots.

Never totally figured out why historically we even have the electoral college for President, when other races are solely based on the popular votes? The electoral college has presented problems in both the 2016 and 2020 elections. If insistance on having a majority in the popular vote at the national level, could use ranked choice voting like Alaska and at least some other states and localities efficiently do - Ranked-choice voting in the United States - Wikipedia . This also mostly solves the write-in issue in such a dvided election.

This is what I prefer (direct election by the people with instant run-off), but it will require a constitutional amendment.

As for why we don't have a direct election...

* The drafters were quite "state oriented". Among the things considered were election by the state legislatures (which the original form of the EC effectively used in many cases) and election by Congress. As best I recall, only James Wilson wanted direct election by the people.

* Many of the founders explicitly did not trust "the little people" and wanted the EC to be a sort of group of well informed deciders.

* Slavery. The states with lots of states wanted credit (and political power) from their population including the enslaved, but they would not be voting. Placing the political power of the unfree into the hands of proportioned electors gave them what they wanted -- power for themselves.

 

[durangodawood]

I would be really interested in this if it was for sure not the Democrats agenda but t would make a bet they are a part of it if not all.
Besides, this was approached before and it was said to be impossible.

Wait...... you think its a good idea on its own merits.... except if certain other people like it then its bad idea???

 

[returntosender]

If it's the Dems agenda i would not be interested.

 

[sprknjc]

This is what I prefer (direct election by the people with instant run-off), but it will require a constitutional amendment.

As for why we don't have a direct election...

* The drafters were quite "state oriented". Among the things considered were election by the state legislatures (which the original form of the EC effectively used in many cases) and election by Congress. As best I recall, only James Wilson wanted direct election by the people.

* Many of the founders explicitly did not trust "the little people" and wanted the EC to be a sort of group of well informed deciders.

* Slavery. The states with lots of states wanted credit (and political power) from their population including the enslaved, but they would not be voting. Placing the political power of the unfree into the hands of proportioned electors gave them what they wanted -- power for themselves.

Thanks for your historical insights. Anybody's guess if we have problems with the Electoral College again in 2024 with the election so divided. In 2016 Trump won the electoral vote, but Hillary won the popular vote by 2.8 million votes. In 2020, Biden clearly won the popular vote nationwide by millions, and also the electoral vote (306, 270 needed). However, Trump then came within 160K votes of winning the electoral vote if he had won the popular vote in Arizona (11K - 11 electoral votes), Georgia (12K - 16 electoral votes), Wisconsin (20K - 10 electoral votes), Nevada (34K - 6 electoral votes), and Pennsylvania (79K - 20 electoral votes) which then resulted in the election interference case in Georgia and the riot at the Capitol when the electoral votes were counted. If a similar, but hopefully not as violent, situation occurs in 2024/early 2025, hope Congress will rethink the Electoral College if we have the right people in power. In comparison to 1790, today not so much less educated little people, many rural then, nor slavery, so a Constitutional amendment may be in order.

It will be interesting if Haley and DeSantis end up running as 3rd party candidates, Biden is declared incapable with mental issues, and Trump is convicted before the general election, but both get their major party nominations over the summer. Wonder how the Electoral College will play out in that situation? There are historical instances where 3rd party candidates received electoral votes List of third-party and independent performances in United States elections - Wikipedia .

 

[RoBo1988]

Are you advocating no government or a very different system of government?

I'm asking the candidates, and the media to be grown up, smart people. Discuss issues. End the "gotcha debates"

 

[returntosender]

Why bring up the electoral college change or s Christian party it ain't happening. They will never be a choice, not in our time. Everyone should do write ins. Excluding the 2 jack ------