Question for my Democratic friends

[hislegacy]

Something I don't understand.

My Democratic friends have always taken a strong position against racist, The territory was Israel's to begin with homophobic, transphobic, anti- LGBTQ, misogynistic, and anti-Semitic groups. And that is a fair and respectable position.

Considering that - why do so many Democratic leaning groups - BlackLivesMatter - Democratic Socialist of America and several Democratic Congress members openly supporting Hamas?

It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[childeye 2]

Something I don't understand.

My Democratic friends have always taken a strong position against racist, The territory was Israel's to begin with homophobic, transphobic, anti- LGBTQ, misogynistic, and anti-Semitic groups. And that is a fair and respectable position.

Considering that - why do so many Democratic leaning groups - BlackLivesMatter - Democratic Socialist of America and several Democratic Congress members openly supporting Hamas?

It doesn't make sense to me.

Democracy/Autocracy is a true dichotomy which shows the delegation of power in degrees of decentralizing/centralizing power. To lean democratic simply means to favor decentralization of power, and to lean autocratic means to favor centralizing power. The way you use the terms causes your question to put forth a false premise, as if "Democratic" is a broad-brush label for many specific groups with diverse interests.

Here are examples of the problems created by misrepresenting the terms. If democrats (pro-democracy) are considered to be pro Hamas, then Hamas would be pro-democracy, and Israel would represent pro-autocracy. If being used as party labels in a left/right dichotomy, democrats are considered to be the anti-racist, then republicans must be considered as being pro-racism.

 

[comana]

Something I don't understand.

My Democratic friends have always taken a strong position against racist, The territory was Israel's to begin with homophobic, transphobic, anti- LGBTQ, misogynistic, and anti-Semitic groups. And that is a fair and respectable position.

Considering that - why do so many Democratic leaning groups - BlackLivesMatter - Democratic Socialist of America and several Democratic Congress members openly supporting Hamas?

It doesn't make sense to me.

I suppose there are people who support Hamas, but I have never come across any of them. What I do frequently see, specifically with Democrats, is support of the Palestinian people who want a separate state.

 

[childeye 2]

I suppose there are people who support Hamas, but I have never come across any of them. What I do frequently see, specifically with Democrats, is support of the Palestinian people who want a separate state.

Most democrats support Israel's existence as a state. To use a party label to suggest that support for Palestinians = being pro-Hamas = pro-massacre = pro-innocent blood shed, is pure propaganda and slander.

 

[hislegacy]

Hamas is the militant arm - but understand that the Palestinians et all are fully supportive of Sharia Law -

 

[childeye 2]

Hamas is the militant arm - but understand that the Palestinians et all are fully supportive of Sharia Law -

And Christianity is about loving even your enemies, a righteousness by grace through faith as opposed to a righteousness through works of the law. We're now talking about a spiritual war here, Spirit of Christ vs. spirit of anti-Christ.

 

[hislegacy]

And Christianity is about loving even your enemies, a righteousness by grace through faith as opposed to a righteousness through works of the law. We're now talking about a spiritual war here, Spirit of Christ vs. spirit of anti-Christ.

That true, what does that have to do with a number of Democratic congress members and organizations supporting a racist, anti LGBTQ, antisemitism , transphobic and misogynist country?

It sounds like everything they are supporting everything they stand against. And it does not make sense

 

[hislegacy]

Most democrats support Israel's existence as a state. To use a party label to suggest that support for Palestinians = being pro-Hamas = pro-massacre = pro-innocent blood shed, is pure propaganda and slander.

I did not say all Democrats - I quite plainly said some - even named them. No propaganda - no slander. Inconvenient observation at best.

 

[childeye 2]

That true, what does that have to do with a number of Democratic congress members and organizations supporting a racist, anti LGBTQ, antisemitism , transphobic and misogynist country?

I see this as a loaded question when accompanied by such an assertion. We need to qualify our terms correctly if we expect to see through the flood of propaganda (lies). For example, there's no such thing as a racist, anti LGBTQ, antisemitic, transphobic and misogynist country. To be clear, these "anti-things" are better described for the most part as being anti-sinfulness according to a strict adherence to a religious law. And we know that sinfulness is a carnal manifestation, and therefore neither righteousness nor sinfulness are confined to any single country or area of land or its people, for all are sinners in some degree in some form or another.

However, as pertains to what this has to do with the spiritual war currently happening throughout the world, those who are filled with the Light of Christ need to consider that every lie from the enemy is meant to undermine the perseverance in loving others as us which requires seeing others as ourselves. Divisive words that scatter the flock are sentiments that characterize "others" as not like "us".

It sounds like everything they are supporting everything they stand against. And it does not make sense

There are degrees between being liberal and authoritarian and that should make some sense of the issue as pertains to a Democrat/Republican divide. But more accurately, it's probably more about how the conditions of living in the Gaza strip have contributed to the events we see taking place including the spread of Islamic absolutism.

 

[childeye 2]

I did not say all Democrats - I quite plainly said some - even named them. No propaganda - no slander. Inconvenient observation at best.

I believe you. But Hamas just engaged in bringing a cruel horror upon many innocent people. It provides the occasion to push political agendas which we will find in the media. If any media source is alluding to any democrat or republican as being for such a massacre and shedding innocent blood, without any evidence to show that, then that's propaganda and slander no matter how subtle.

 

[hislegacy]

I believe you. But Hamas just engaged in bringing a cruel horror upon many innocent people. It provides the occasion to push political agendas which we will find in the media. If any media source is alluding to any democrat or republican as being for such a massacre and shedding innocent blood, without any evidence to show that, then that's propaganda and slander no matter how subtle.

Truth is not slander.

Why are Democratic organizations and politicians supporting a group that is the exact opposite of what they supposedly stand for?

Is Hamas racist? Yes
Is Hamas homophobic? Yes
Is Hamas antisemitic? Yes
Is Hamas transphobic? Yes
Is Hamas misogynistic? Yes
Did Hamas just fire 5,000 rockets targeting civilians? Yes
Did Hamas decapitate children? Yes
Did Hamas rape woman? Yes

Are there Democratic members of Congress defending them? Yes

Are their left leaning organization defending them? Yes

All true. Not one iota of slander. The question is why?

 

[Valletta]

Democracy/Autocracy is a true dichotomy which shows the delegation of power in degrees of decentralizing/centralizing power. To lean democratic simply means to favor decentralization of power, and to lean autocratic means to favor centralizing power. The way you use the terms causes your question to put forth a false premise, as if "Democratic" is a broad-brush label for many specific groups with diverse interests.

Here are examples of the problems created by misrepresenting the terms. If democrats (pro-democracy) are considered to be pro Hamas, then Hamas would be pro-democracy, and Israel would represent pro-autocracy. If being used as party labels in a left/right dichotomy, democrats are considered to be the anti-racist, then republicans must be considered as being pro-racism.

A capital "D" was used in "Democratic," meaning the Democratic Party. In the United States Democrats generally favor more centralization of government and define people more by race, Republicans generally advocate less central authority and a color blind society.

 

[childeye 2]

Truth is not slander.


Why are Democratic organizations and politicians supporting a group that is the exact opposite of what they supposedly stand for?


Is Hamas racist? Yes
Is Hamas homophobic? Yes
Is Hamas antisemitic? Yes
Is Hamas transphobic? Yes
Is Hamas misogynistic? Yes
Did Hamas just fire 5,000 rockets targeting civilians? Yes
Did Hamas decapitate children? Yes
Did Hamas rape woman? Yes

Are there Democratic members of Congress defending them? Yes

Are their left leaning organization defending them? Yes

All true. Not one iota of slander. The question is why?

You need to state clearly what you're alluding to as "truth" and not "slander".

So, to be clear, do you mean to suggest that there are organizations run by self-described Democrats that approve of the decapitating of children and the raping of women?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Are there Democratic members of Congress defending [Hamas]? Yes

Who is that?


To the larger point, unsophisticated black-&-white thinking is not completely monopolized by conservatives (although it is a habit that is more common among conservatives). Bad thinking can be found everywhere, and we should all try to be better about our thinking. Black and white thinking leads to clearly false conclusions like "Palestinians/Israelis are always in the right; Israelis/Palestinians are always in the wrong." Some of these fringe-y groups appear to be infected by this kind of sloppy thinking. Obviously, I haven't studied all of all these groups' announcements in detail, but the NYC-DSA event was specifically about Solidarity with Palestineans. It was not literally about Hamas, but certainly the timing of the event after a Hamas terror attack is most charitably described as being in extremely bad taste.

At least some reps associated with DSA have denounced the rally or left the DSA entirely.

ETA: I see now from Hark!'s thread that some branch of BLM also expressed "solidarity with the Palestinian people" rather than "openly supporting Hamas" as in the OP.

 

[childeye 2]

A capital "D" was used in "Democratic," meaning the Democratic Party.

"Democratic" by definition implies supporting the principles of a democracy, regardless of whether its referring to the Democratic party or the Democratic Republican party.

In the United States Democrats generally favor more centralization of government and define people more by race, Republicans generally advocate less central authority and a color blind society.

I understand that Jefferson led an "anti-federalist" faction. But that has nothing to do with being color blind or not. The fact is that being a racist is not about recognizing that people have different colors of skin or come from different races of people. To notice that people are black, brown, or white does not constitute racism. "Racism" is when one believes the stock that one comes from determines whether they are inferior or superior to others.

 

[hislegacy]

solidarity with the Palestinian people" rather than "openly supporting Hamas" as in the OP.

Solidarity with a group is supporting the group.

Need I post a definition?

 

[hislegacy]

Who is that?

Someone who is articulate and well read as you is asking who is that!? I am amazed.

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/11/squad-democrats-israel-hamas-tensions

Tlaib and Bush Called to End Violence in Israel and Gaza. Then Fellow Democrats Attacked.

Reps. Rashida Tlaib and Cori Bush called for a ceasefire in Israel and got attacked by Democratic colleague and AIPAC ally Rep. Josh Gottheimer.

theintercept.com

Progressives face backlash over response to Israel attacks

Progressives are facing backlash over their initial responses to the attacks on Israel by Hamas militants, revealing the degree to which they’re at odds with others in the Democratic caucus over th…

thehill.com

AOC attacks Israel again after belatedly condemning ‘unacceptable’ pro-Palestinian rally

AOC denounced Sunday’s hate-filled pro-Palestine rally in Times Square — only to try and redirect outrage back onto Israel following this weekend’s butchery by Hamas terrorists.

nypost.com

Why is it so hard for the American Left to condemn Hamas?

The Israel-Palestine conflict has led to a predictably divided response in the US. But it is the American Left in particular that has not covered itself in glory. In recent days, it has failed to distinguish between its commitment to the legitimate cause of Palestinian self-determination and a...

unherd.com

 

[Valletta]

"Democratic" by definition implies supporting the principles of a democracy, regardless of whether its referring to the Democratic party or the Democratic Republican party.

I understand that Jefferson led an "anti-federalist" faction. But that has nothing to do with being color blind or not. The fact is that being a racist is not about recognizing that people have different colors of skin or come from different races of people. To notice that people are black, brown, or white does not constitute racism. "Racism" is when one believes the stock that one comes from determines whether they are inferior or superior to others.

Do not judge anything by the name it is given. Racism is treating people differently based upon race, such as with Critical Race Theory.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Solidarity with a group is supporting the group.

Need I post a definition?

The only definition that would be of use to you would be one that defines "the Palestinian people" to be "Hamas".

Remember how we should guard against black and white thinking?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Someone who is articulate and well read as you is asking who is that!? I am amazed.

Your articles do not support your accusation.

Tlaib and Bush Called to End Violence in Israel and Gaza. Then Fellow Democrats Attacked.

Reps. Rashida Tlaib and Cori Bush called for a ceasefire in Israel and got attacked by Democratic colleague and AIPAC ally Rep. Josh Gottheimer.

theintercept.com

Neither supported Hamas

Progressives face backlash over response to Israel attacks

Progressives are facing backlash over their initial responses to the attacks on Israel by Hamas militants, revealing the degree to which they’re at odds with others in the Democratic caucus over th…

thehill.com

“The bigotry and callousness expressed in Times Square on Sunday were unacceptable and harmful in this devastating moment,” Ocasio-Cortez said in a statement reported by Politico. “It also did not speak for the thousands of New Yorkers who are capable of rejecting both Hamas’ horrifying attacks against innocent civilians as well as the grave injustices and violence Palestinians face under occupation.”

Explicitly rejects Hamas. Similarly Bernie and Biden are quoted as detesting Hamas' terrorist attack.

AOC attacks Israel again after belatedly condemning ‘unacceptable’ pro-Palestinian rally

AOC denounced Sunday’s hate-filled pro-Palestine rally in Times Square — only to try and redirect outrage back onto Israel following this weekend’s butchery by Hamas terrorists.

nypost.com

AOC: “I condemn Hamas’ attack in the strongest possible terms."

Why is it so hard for the American Left to condemn Hamas?

The Israel-Palestine conflict has led to a predictably divided response in the US. But it is the American Left in particular that has not covered itself in glory. In recent days, it has failed to distinguish between its commitment to the legitimate cause of Palestinian self-determination and a...

unherd.com

Tlaib: Hamas members were guilty of “war crimes”.