How does this have anything to do with the Rapture? or the Millennium?
Lake of fire for all the unbelievers over all time.
Lake of fire does not make a second appearance until the Great White Throne judgement which is the last thing done on Earth.... AFTER the millennium.
Where is your proof to back up your opinion?
Show me the Biblical reference that people will "fall" during the millennium.
The unbelievers... sure.
But the believers will "fall" like a third Adam... I don't see that in Scripture.
Please point out the verses I may have missed that back your claims.
I have asked you very specific questions.You are all over the place with you thoughts, until you can better ask questions, I will spend time at other post.
I am not even sure if you understand how a person becomes a born again child of God. Looks like if you did, you would not be asking what you are asking.
I have asked you very specific questions.
If you can't answer them then fine.
Maybe my thought pattern would become clear if you answered some of my questions.
But you don't want to... so you will not get to the point I was driving at.
Where is the question, please?Here is an example of some of your Incoherent questioning
Show me the Biblical reference that people will "fall" during the millennium.
The unbelievers... sure.
But the believers will "fall" like a third Adam... I don't see that in Scripture.
The only thing I asked for was your references to back your idea.Do you not understand that you were asking question in the form of statements.
The only thing I asked for was your references to back your idea.
I don't understand why that should be an issue.
Correct you did not say that.Ok lets play your little game. You said show me where "people will "fall" during the millennium" and "But the believers will "fall" like a third Adam."
Ok, so you show me where i said, believers will fall like Adam (third Adam what ever that is). or where I said people will fall.
Correct you did not say that.
You said the millennium will become full of sinners... a rough paraphrase.
Correct?
If only the holy people start the millennium but there will be sinners by the end of the millennium then they must "fall from grace" like Adam did. (Jesus was described as the second Adam)(So that makes this "fall of man" during the millennium a Adamic like fall being the third Adam)
So I was expounding on your idea and feeding it back to you to comment upon. I was not aware that you did not follow your logic to it's logical conclusion. I take a thought through all the steps before putting any trust in it.
So you say that at the start of the millennium there will be a time like the garden of Eden.What do you think believers are, a believer is still a sinner.
I will restate what i said.
At the start of the millennium, the millennium will be populated with believers gentile believers and Jewish believers. As time in the millennium moves on the children of some of the gentile believers will not be believers, they will grow up to be unbelievers and as people give birth in the millennium some will grow up to be believers and some will grow up to never believer in Jesus for Eternal Life.
I thought I had tribulation figured out until I finished the book on Dispensationalism required for my seminary class in bibliology and theological method. But according to our textbook, some will enter the millennium that get saved during the tribulation, refuse the mark of the beast, survive and yet do not have to be martyred. This was news to me as I thought the only way a person could be saved during tribulation was to die a martyr's death, so I want to discuss where both ideas come from and who is right. Is there hope for some people that (1) are not Christians and miss the rapture of the church at the start of the tribulation, (2) see the BIble was right all along and they messed up by not believing in time but they come to saving faith because the Holy Spirit, while withdrawn from some respects, is still here for salvation purposes for those who find their faith and persevere to the end, (3) do not accept the mark of the beast, and (4) do not die during the 7 years, so they enter the 1000 year reign as unglorified (still alive) humans that eventually die as normal humans die during the 1000 years. Again this is all new to me because I thought I had it clear that only those who died a martyr's death could be saved during tribulation, but this book from DTS on Dispensationalism says there are some who somehow get through all of tribulation and meet all the requirements to be judged and allowed to enter the Kingdom a normal humans, while those of us who were believers when Tribulation began are back in.
Before you answer, please note the tag for this thread is PRE-MILLENIALS ONLY. It would be pointless for anyone else to give their opinion on the topic.
So you say that at the start of the millennium there will be a time like the garden of Eden.
Except that there will be more people some in a resurrected state.
Where is your reference that during the millennial kingdom there will be children being born?
I see no basis for your belief in scripture.
If I missed it please provide references.
Like the garden of Eden. Yep. Got it. Just like the garden.No i am not saying that, read what i wrote. The garden of Eden is over there will never be another garden of Eden.
“No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord,
And their offspring with them.
I thought I had tribulation figured out until I finished the book on Dispensationalism required for my seminary class in bibliology and theological method. But according to our textbook, some will enter the millennium that get saved during the tribulation, refuse the mark of the beast, survive and yet do not have to be martyred. This was news to me as I thought the only way a person could be saved during tribulation was to die a martyr's death, so I want to discuss where both ideas come from and who is right. Is there hope for some people that (1) are not Christians and miss the rapture of the church at the start of the tribulation, (2) see the BIble was right all along and they messed up by not believing in time but they come to saving faith because the Holy Spirit, while withdrawn from some respects, is still here for salvation purposes for those who find their faith and persevere to the end, (3) do not accept the mark of the beast, and (4) do not die during the 7 years, so they enter the 1000 year reign as unglorified (still alive) humans that eventually die as normal humans die during the 1000 years. Again this is all new to me because I thought I had it clear that only those who died a martyr's death could be saved during tribulation, but this book from DTS on Dispensationalism says there are some who somehow get through all of tribulation and meet all the requirements to be judged and allowed to enter the Kingdom a normal humans, while those of us who were believers when Tribulation began are back in.
Before you answer, please note the tag for this thread is PRE-MILLENIALS ONLY. It would be pointless for anyone else to give their opinion on the topic.
The great earthquake, the darkening of the sky in the clear day (though only the sun is specified in this passage rather than both sun and moon), and all the tribes mourning. Compare with Matthew 24:29-30, Revelation 6:12-17, and other day of the Lord passages.8 Shall not the land tremble for this, and every one mourn that dwelleth therein? and it shall rise up wholly as a flood; and it shall be cast out and drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord God, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:
10 And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.
So after the day of the Lord, there's a famine of the Word of God, specifically hearing it. Why? Because those who preach it are gone (rapture?)11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.
13 In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.
instead, because they can't find the word of the true God, they double down on idolatry.14 They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again.
there are Historic Premillennialist Posttrib as well. Post trib can be amillennial or premillennial.I notice you asked for Premill only, and did not exclude Postribbers like myself. It is pointless for us, as well, since we do not believe the book of Revelation was written for any other reason than to encourage Christians to stand up to Antichristianity.
both Jesus and Paul draw from Zechariah 9:14-16, Paul draws from it in 1 Thessalonians 4, and Jesus drew from it for the Olivet discourse, they are discussing the same thing. The Lord God in the clouds above people, blowing the trumpet, and gathering people, specifically gathering them above the ground. Zechariah has them set up as an ensign (a banner) above the landI agree that the Rapture is not in the Olivet discourse. It is as the guy in the video describes. I watched it and found it truthful and useful too.
The Word of the Lord in this case, is referring to Jesus, so literal words that the Lord spoke, and back to Zechariah, confirming what Jesus is talking about in old testament scripture. That is how Paul operates. He is not pulling doctrine from direct revelation. He took things that Jesus said, compared them with the Old Testament, and found the doctrines that Jesus referred to in the Old Testament, then he expounded on them to the church. That is why Jesus chose Paul. Because Paul knew his scripture.15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
All of the Bible requires interpretation.Just remember that Revelation is not a book to be interpreted.
Just follow the included (included in Revelation) instructions on how to read Revelation.
If we follow John's instructions on how to read Revelation it becomes a very straight forward book.
Why would a non-believer come to Christ if they have rejected Him through the worst plagues to ever hit the planet?
Did Pharaoh join Moses on the trip into the wilderness after the Jews had already set out?
Did average Egyptians also go after the Jews to join them in worshiping the Lord?
Or did Egypt rise to destroy those that they saw as responsible for their plagues?
I am pre-mill as to when Jesus returns. And I place the Rapture event at the post-mill side of history.
Does ANYONE out there share my views? I guess not.
First, going into the Millennium isn't the same as entering into the Kingdom of God during the Millenium. Second, even if only believers enter the Kingdom, those who are mortal can have children for 1000 years so their children and not them could be the ones that side with Satan.If there are no non-believers in the millennium who does Satan get to make war?
Rev 20:8-9
So there are non-believers going into the millennium.
I like the Grace Evangelical Society's attempt to explain the goats vs sheep, but it isn't still clear to me who is who. It is clear that the sheep are as they say, people who help the Jews (and possibly the Christians who come to faith during the Tribulation period but are tormented and most if not all killed by the antichrist and his arm), and goats are those who aren't, but it isn't clear to me (yet) who is being described as the goats and the sheep. I see 4 possible groups that could be in this judgement: (1) Jewish Christians who came to accept Christ during the tribulation and survived; (2) Non-Jewish Christians who came to accept Christ during the tribulation; (3) Jews who continued to reject Christ and (4) non-Jews who continued to reject Christ. I also agree that this judgement doesn't necessarily equate to the Great White throne judgement either, where a simpler division is made between those who have accepted Christ as Savior and those who rejected Christ as Savior.-
I do not see what is so hard about people, believing in Jesus (for Eternal Life) during the tribulation. Then also surviving the tribulation and going into the tribulation physically alive. To repopulate the restored earth for the 1000 year millennium
God has planed for physically alive people to live in the 1000 year kingdom of God. Where would these people come from if not from surviving the tribulation, to enter alive into The (1000 year) Kingdom of God.
That is what is meant when Jesus states those who will be saved are the ones who persevere to the end. They are saved physically, to go into the 1000 year millennium.
He Who Endures Will Be Saved (Matthew 24:13) – Grace Evangelical Society
That is also what the judgment of the sheep and goats is about.
Matthew 25:31-46: Salvation by Works? – Grace Evangelical Society