Texas judge says Sutherland Springs families can sue store that sold church shooter his gun, ammunit

[redleghunter]

Texas judge says Sutherland Springs families can sue store that sold church shooter his gun, ammunition

Updated Monday, Feb. 4, 2019 at 10:35 a.m. with the judge's decision and more information about a federal lawsuit, and Friday, Feb. 1, 2019 at 5:26 p.m. with photos from the hearing.

SAN ANTONIO — A Texas judge has decided that victims and families of the Sutherland Springs church massacre can sue the sporting goods store where the shooter purchased his gun and ammunition.

In a case that could have big implications for gun laws here and across the country, Bexar County District Court Judge Karen Pozza on Monday denied Academy Sports + Outdoors request that the lawsuit be thrown out. Her decision means the lawsuit will proceed and could eventually go to a jury trial.

Pozza's order on summary judgment did not explain her decision.

The Sutherland Springs families allege the chain is liable for shooter Devin P. Kelley's carnage because employees at one of its Texas retailers sold him a high capacity magazine illegal in Colorado, his state of residence. The families are asking for millions in damages for physical and mental anguish, disfigurement and medical expenses.

The lawsuit could test the limits of state and federal gun laws and may answer some long-standing, hotly contested legal questions, like whether gun dealers must decline to sell certain items based on the buyer's place of residence and whether shooting victims can file civil suits, and get monetary damages, from these dealers in certain circumstances.

Lawyers for both sides went head-to-head in what was at times a heated debate on Thursday. During the nearly three-hour hearing, they argued over federal and state laws, and whether the store should have refused to sell Kelley the gun with which he killed and injured dozens at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs on Nov. 5, 2017.

At the heart of the case is whether the federal definition of a firearm includes the magazine with which it is sold, and if a Colorado law banning the sale of high-capacity magazines applies to Coloradans who buy guns in Texas.

More at link: Texas judge says Sutherland Springs families can sue store that sold church shooter his gun, ammunition | Courts | Dallas News

 

[devin553344]

That's really sad Terrible really I can't imagine going to church and having my body or face, or even nether regions (I was in the military), shot with bullets trying to worship in peace and love. Really goes to show you how sick people can get. I'm not sure about the ruling against the gun shop though. Not sure...

 

[JacobKStarkey]

I don't like the ruling legally, but I certainly understand the emotion.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I don't like the ruling legally, but I certainly understand the emotion.

Judges are suppose to be rational not emotional.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Tighter gun restrictions, and placing more accountability on gun sellers seems like a good thing, not a bad thing.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Brightmoon]

Aren’t these stores supposed to do background checks ? If it’s illegal to own in Colorado then ...

 

[JacobKStarkey]

Judges are suppose to be rational not emotional.

I agree, and we don't know if he was emotional.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Texas judge says Sutherland Springs families can sue store that sold church shooter his gun, ammunition

Updated Monday, Feb. 4, 2019 at 10:35 a.m. with the judge's decision and more information about a federal lawsuit, and Friday, Feb. 1, 2019 at 5:26 p.m. with photos from the hearing.

SAN ANTONIO — A Texas judge has decided that victims and families of the Sutherland Springs church massacre can sue the sporting goods store where the shooter purchased his gun and ammunition.

In a case that could have big implications for gun laws here and across the country, Bexar County District Court Judge Karen Pozza on Monday denied Academy Sports + Outdoors request that the lawsuit be thrown out. Her decision means the lawsuit will proceed and could eventually go to a jury trial.

Pozza's order on summary judgment did not explain her decision.

The Sutherland Springs families allege the chain is liable for shooter Devin P. Kelley's carnage because employees at one of its Texas retailers sold him a high capacity magazine illegal in Colorado, his state of residence. The families are asking for millions in damages for physical and mental anguish, disfigurement and medical expenses.

The lawsuit could test the limits of state and federal gun laws and may answer some long-standing, hotly contested legal questions, like whether gun dealers must decline to sell certain items based on the buyer's place of residence and whether shooting victims can file civil suits, and get monetary damages, from these dealers in certain circumstances.

Lawyers for both sides went head-to-head in what was at times a heated debate on Thursday. During the nearly three-hour hearing, they argued over federal and state laws, and whether the store should have refused to sell Kelley the gun with which he killed and injured dozens at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs on Nov. 5, 2017.

At the heart of the case is whether the federal definition of a firearm includes the magazine with which it is sold, and if a Colorado law banning the sale of high-capacity magazines applies to Coloradans who buy guns in Texas.

More at link: Texas judge says Sutherland Springs families can sue store that sold church shooter his gun, ammunition | Courts | Dallas News

Next we will have gas stations being held responsible for dispensing gas to drivers who later cause accidents as a DUI...…

 

[paul1149]

hotly contested legal questions, like whether gun dealers must decline to sell certain items based on the buyer's place of residence

I would think the legality of purchases by non-residents would be detailed in the controlling legislation. If it isn't, that legislation is poorly written. Going through the courts is a sloppy and painful way to write legislation, and should be the absolute last resort. It also doesn't seem practical that gun shops should be knowledgeable in all the gun regulations of all the states.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Next we will have gas stations being held responsible for dispensing gas to drivers who later cause accidents as a DUI...…

Not the same thing.

There were rules in place here, and those rules, in order to protect the people they were made for, need to be followed....they were not.

There is no such rule/background check for buying gas.

 

[civilwarbuff]

The Sutherland Springs families allege the chain is liable for shooter Devin P. Kelley's carnage because employees at one of its Texas retailers sold him a high capacity magazine illegal in Colorado, his state of residence. The families are asking for millions in damages for physical and mental anguish, disfigurement and medical expenses.

The lawsuit could test the limits of state and federal gun laws and may answer some long-standing, hotly contested legal questions, like whether gun dealers must decline to sell certain items based on the buyer's place of residence and whether shooting victims can file civil suits, and get monetary damages, from these dealers in certain circumstances.
So tell me, based on this from the OP above, what laws were violated in Texas?​

 

[Kenny'sID]

The Sutherland Springs families allege the chain is liable for shooter Devin P. Kelley's carnage because employees at one of its Texas retailers sold him a high capacity magazine illegal in Colorado, his state of residence. The families are asking for millions in damages for physical and mental anguish, disfigurement and medical expenses.

The lawsuit could test the limits of state and federal gun laws and may answer some long-standing, hotly contested legal questions, like whether gun dealers must decline to sell certain items based on the buyer's place of residence and whether shooting victims can file civil suits, and get monetary damages, from these dealers in certain circumstances.
So tell me, based on this from the OP above, what laws were violated in Texas?​

I can only assume the law says they weren't to sell him something he cannot own in his own state, or as a non resident of Texas.

 

[redleghunter]

I can only assume the law says they weren't to sell him something he cannot own in his own state, or as a non resident of Texas.

Have to look again but did he hold a Texas drivers license? If so then that may just be how Academy worked with.

 

[FireDragon76]

I would think the legality of purchases by non-residents would be detailed in the controlling legislation. If it isn't, that legislation is poorly written. Going through the courts is a sloppy and painful way to write legislation, and should be the absolute last resort. It also doesn't seem practical that gun shops should be knowledgeable in all the gun regulations of all the states.

On an issue like this, where special interest groups have a great deal of sway, a day in court may be the only practical remedy.

 

[Arcangl86]

The judge obviously felt that Texas law allowed for this suit, though I wish she had explained why. I also wonder if maybe she is expecting a motion to remove the case to federal court.

 

[redleghunter]

Tighter gun restrictions, and placing more accountability on gun sellers seems like a good thing, not a bad thing.

-CryptoLutheran

Once again in this case Kelley had violent priors in the military and after for animal cruelty. Which should have showed up in a background search. That’s the very first failure needing fixing.

Such a measure would fly through both houses of Congress and the President already said he would sign it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...say-killed-churchgoers-in-sutherland-springs/

 

[redleghunter]

Aren’t these stores supposed to do background checks ? If it’s illegal to own in Colorado then ...

The real issue is this guy was a bad Airman was court-martialed for a violent offense. That should have disqualified him. The Lautenberg Act.

NEW BRAUNFELS, Texas — The gunman suspected of opening fire at this town’s First Baptist Church Sunday was a former U.S. Air Force airman who had a string of legal troubles beginning in at least 2012, when he was court-martialed and sentenced to a year in military prison for assaulting his wife and child.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...say-killed-churchgoers-in-sutherland-springs/

More on Lautenberg Act:

Domestic Abusers Are Barred From Gun Ownership, but Often Escape the Law

Excerpt:

WASHINGTON — In 1996, after a concerted push from Senator Frank Lautenberg of New Jersey, Congress made it illegal for anyone convicted of domestic abuse — even a misdemeanor — to buy a firearm. Mr. Lautenberg, who died in 2013, liked to say the law was “dedicated to the simple principle that wife-beaters and child abusers should not have guns.”

Yet in the two decades since, a large percentage of the perpetrators of mass shootings and other violent crimes have had run-ins with the law over spousal abuse — and have had little problem acquiring deadly arsenals. On Sunday, Devin P. Kelley joined that fraternity, gunning down 26 people at a church in Texas with an AR-15 military-style rifle that he bought two years after the Air Force convicted him of beating his wife and breaking his young stepson’s skull.

The Air Force on Monday acknowledged that Mr. Kelley’s domestic violence offense, clearly one that should have made him ineligible for a firearm, had not been entered into the National Criminal Information Center database. It pledged to conduct a sweeping review of all cases to determine if they had been properly reported.

 

[redleghunter]

I can only assume the law says they weren't to sell him something he cannot own in his own state, or as a non resident of Texas.

See above. Why they are suing for magazines is puzzling. By the Lautenberg Act he should not have been able to buy fire arms at all in 2016.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Have to look again but did he hold a Texas drivers license? If so then that may just be how Academy worked with.

No reason to believe he was licensed in any other state than the one he resided in...none that I know of anyway.

 

[redleghunter]

No reason to believe he was licensed in any other state than the one he resided in...none that I know of anyway.

Agree. But the WashPo article said he lived with his parents in Texas.