Dissecting an actual science article

Gene2memE

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It's still not an article.

It's a reproduction of a press release about an article.

Even analysing the abstract is insufficient to meet the claim of "dissecting an actual science article".

To do that, you'd actually have to look at the article itself. In its entirety. Which you most plainly haven't done.

If I was marking first year university students on critical evaluation of a source, someone who evaluated a press release about the source, or the abstract of the source alone, would receive a failing grade.
 
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dad

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It's still not an article.
It is an article. So there. News articles about science are articles.

It's a reproduction of a press release about an article.
As much as I'd like to let you redefine the language, sorry..

noun
1.
a written composition in prose, usually nonfiction, on a specific topic, forming an independent part of a book or other publication, as anewspaper or magazine.
Even analysing the abstract is insufficient to meet the claim of "dissecting an actual science article".
An article in a science site about science stuff is an article about science. How about addressing what the scientists claimed? After all, we are not from the intellectual shallow end of the gene pool here are we??
To do that, you'd actually have to look at the article itself. In its entirety. Which you most plainly haven't done.
The OP is not about that. It is about one aspect from the study in a science article on a science site. Do you claim that the material is not genuine? Do you claim they do not determine ages of when rock melted that way? Try a little honesty here.
If I was marking first year university students on critical evaluation of a source, someone who evaluated a press release about the source, or the abstract of the source alone, would receive a failing grade.
If I was marking posters on what they contributed about the topic and bits of a news article on science that was posted in an OP, you would get expelled from school for insubordination. So much for playing the what if game.
 
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AirPo

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The articles on news sites I referred to ARE science actually. This thread exposes the idiocy of their claims, like in today's news.

"
NC State assistant professor and planetary geologist Paul Byrne and colleagues determined when the bulk of Mercury's crust-forming volcanism ended by using photographs of the surface imaged by NASA's MESSENGER mission. Because there are no physical samples from the planet that could be used for radiometric dating, the researchers used crater size-frequency analysis, in which the number and size of craters on the planet's surface are placed into established mathematical models, to calculate absolute ages for effusive volcanic deposits on Mercury.

According to their results, major volcanism on Mercury stopped at around 3.5 billion years ago, in stark contrast to the volcanic ages found for Venus, Mars and Earth."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160805155132.htm

Notice they did not talk about what those 'established' math models are based on. Vague religious drool.

Anti Creation heretics. Con artists.
Sure the articles do, but The HI Theory :wave:ing and :tutu:ing do not. But it's The HI Theory, so let's make up that it does! :wave:
 
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The thread has great points and details and science discussions, you have nothing.
Great points like "dad thinks press releases are better scientific papers than actual scientific papers."

Here's the thing. Press releases are like advertisements. The goal is to get people talking about a paper to help increase it's impact. Peer review is like user reviews on products.

You are basically saying the ads are a better representation of the product than the user reviews.
 
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dad

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Great points like "dad thinks press releases are better scientific papers than actual scientific papers."
No, points like those you fled from like how they date when the rocks were molten and etc. Instead of dealing with the issue (you can't) you try to wave the religious robes of peer reviewed vague nonsense. Pathetic.
 
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AirPo

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No, points like those you fled from like how they date when the rocks were molten and etc. Instead of dealing with the issue (you can't) you try to wave the religious robes of peer reviewed vague nonsense. Pathetic.
Oh, you're talking about the pointless "points." Well, it is a HI Theory thread so you can just make up that the pointless is a point.
 
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No, points like those you fled from like how they date when the rocks were molten and etc. Instead of dealing with the issue (you can't) you try to wave the religious robes of peer reviewed vague nonsense. Pathetic.
Sure i can. Let's start with the abstract of the actual paper:

The MESSENGER spacecraft provided geochemical data for surface rocks on Mercury. In this study, we
use the major element composition of these lavas to constrain melting conditions and residual mantle
sources on Mercury. We combine modelling and high-temperature (1320–1580◦C), low- to high-pressure
(0.1 to 3GPa) experiments on average compositions for the Northern Volcanic Plains (NVP) and the
high-Mg region of the Intercrater Plains and Heavily Cratered Terrains (High-Mg IcP-HCT). Near-liquidus
phase relations show that the S-free NVP and High-Mg IcP-HCT compositions are multiply saturated
with forsterite and enstatite at 1450◦C – 1.3 GPa and 1570◦C – 1.7 GPa, respectively. For S-saturated
melts (1.5–3 wt.% S), the multiple saturation point (MSP) is shifted to 1380◦C – 0.75 GPa for NVP
and 1480◦C – 0.8 GPa for High-Mg IcP-HCT. To expand our experimental results to the range of
surface compositions, we used and calibrated the pMELTS thermodynamic calculator and estimated phase
equilibria of ∼5800 compositions from the Mercurian surface and determined the P –T conditions of
liquid–forsterite–enstatite MSP (1300–1600◦C; 0.25–1.25 GPa). Surface basalts were produced by 10 to
50% partial melting of variably enriched lherzolitic mantle sources. The relatively low pressure of the
olivine–enstatite–liquid MSP seems most consistent with decompression batch melting and melts being
segregated from their residues near the base of Mercury’s ancient lithosphere. The average melting degree
is lower for the young NVP (0.27 ± 0.04) than for the older IcP-HCT (0.46 ± 0.02), indicating that melt
productivity decreased with time. The mantle potential temperature required to form Mercurian lavas
and the initial depth of melting also decreased from the older High-Mg IcP-HCT terrane (1650◦C and
360 km) to the younger lavas covering the NVP regions (1410◦C and 160 km). This evolution supports
strong secular cooling of Mercury’s mantle between 4.2 and 3.7 Ga and explains why very little magmatic
activity occurred after 3.7 Ga.

Now, given the data from MESSENGER, why would experimental studies on the ability of various scenarios to produce observed crystallization patterns not be relevant to constraining the melt conditions of those rocks?

Now, I know you have your whole thing about "but what if things were different in some highly specific way that just made everything appear to have behaved according to known laws of physics?", but setting that aside, the actual dating of the surface was NOT from the melt experiments, but rather established by crater density by Weider et al. (2012) and Marchi et al. (2013). which you would have known if you looked at the actual paper and dissected that rather than an article about a press release.

Which kind of gets to my point about press releases not being scientific articles.

Actual paper is available here:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...cesses_and_mantle_sources_of_lavas_on_Mercury

[mic drop]
 
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dad

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Sure i can. Let's start with the abstract of the actual paper:

The MESSENGER spacecraft provided geochemical data for surface rocks on Mercury. In this study, we
use the major element composition of these lavas to constrain melting conditions and residual mantle
sources on Mercury.
Constrain how? Seems like you are saying contstrain to present state worl laws...tight? If you claim otherwise explain?
We combine modelling and high-temperature (1320–1580◦C), low- to high-pressure
(0.1 to 3GPa) experiments on average compositions for the Northern Volcanic Plains (NVP) and the
high-Mg region of the Intercrater Plains and Heavily Cratered Terrains (High-Mg IcP-HCT). Near-liquidus
phase relations show that the S-free NVP and High-Mg IcP-HCT compositions are multiply saturated
with forsterite and enstatite at 1450◦C – 1.3 GPa and 1570◦C – 1.7 GPa, respectively.
Seems like you are saying that seeing certain compositions (based on how we would get those compositions in this state) take on meaning. Correct? All based on assuming that this state had to be involved in getting the compositions. In other words blind faih in a certain state in the past. Totally assumed without question. Believed. Unproven in the extreme.

For S-saturated
melts (1.5–3 wt.% S), the multiple saturation point (MSP) is shifted to 1380◦C – 0.75 GPa for NVP
and 1480◦C – 0.8 GPa for High-Mg IcP-HCT. To expand our experimental results to the range of
surface compositions, we used and calibrated the pMELTS thermodynamic calculator and estimated phase
equilibria of ∼5800 compositions from the Mercurian surface and determined the P –T conditions of
liquid–forsterite–enstatite MSP (1300–1600◦C; 0.25–1.25 GPa).
There we have it. Phase equilibria. We look at what causes these sort of phase changes on earth, using our laws etc...and then project that onto Mercury in the far far far unnown state past.
This is religious twaddle.

Surface basalts were produced by 10 to
50% partial melting of variably enriched lherzolitic mantle sources. The relatively low pressure of the
olivine–enstatite–liquid MSP seems most consistent with decompression batch melting and melts being
segregated from their residues near the base of Mercury’s ancient lithosphere. The average melting degree
is lower for the young NVP (0.27 ± 0.04) than for the older IcP-HCT (0.46 ± 0.02), indicating that melt
productivity decreased with time.
Same as above. 'Seems consistent with a same state past faity tale...best we can come up with using the same state past religion'.


The mantle potential temperature required to form Mercurian lavas
and the initial depth of melting also decreased from the older High-Mg IcP-HCT terrane (1650◦C and
360 km) to the younger lavas covering the NVP regions (1410◦C and 160 km).
"Required" means using present state earth laws. End of story.

This evolution supports strong secular cooling of Mercury’s mantle between 4.2 and 3.7 Ga and explains why very little magmatic activity occurred after 3.7 Ga.
meaningless speculation. Imaginary time invoked to explain how a non created world may have ceased producing molten rock a long long time ago, in the unknown state of the past. Anti Christ (creator) fables. Anyone that calls this science is truly an ignoramus.

Now, given the data from MESSENGER, why would experimental studies on the ability of various scenarios to produce observed crystallization patterns not be relevant to constraining the melt conditions of those rocks?
Who knows? You are suggesting there is no other way to try to explain anything BUT by your godless anti Christ same state past religion. Crystals will happen in the future nature according to Scripture. Why not the past too?? Who cares how crystals are or must now be formed??
Now, I know you have your whole thing about "but what if things were different in some highly specific way that just made everything appear to have behaved according to known laws of physics?", but setting that aside, the actual dating of the surface was NOT from the melt experiments, but rather established by crater density by Weider et al. (2012) and Marchi et al. (2013). which you would have known if you looked at the actual paper and dissected that rather than an article about a press release.
Same idiocy. Tell us why density of craters equals billions of years? Really. Try to tell us why. The answer will be same state past religion pretending it is science.
Which kind of gets to my point about press releases not being scientific articles.
No. I posted an article a few days ago on this thread dealing exactly with the density of craters.
 
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Constrain how? Seems like you are saying contstrain to present state worl laws...tight? If you claim otherwise explain?
Seems like you are saying that seeing certain compositions (based on how we would get those compositions in this state) take on meaning. Correct? All based on assuming that this state had to be involved in getting the compositions. In other words blind faih in a certain state in the past. Totally assumed without question. Believed. Unproven in the extreme.

There we have it. Phase equilibria. We look at what causes these sort of phase changes on earth, using our laws etc...and then project that onto Mercury in the far far far unnown state past.
This is religious twaddle.

Same as above. 'Seems consistent with a same state past faity tale...best we can come up with using the same state past religion'.


"Required" means using present state earth laws. End of story.

meaningless speculation. Imaginary time invoked to explain how a non created world may have ceased producing molten rock a long long time ago, in the unknown state of the past. Anti Christ (creator) fables. Anyone that calls this science is truly an ignoramus.

Who knows? You are suggesting there is no other way to try to explain anything BUT by your godless anti Christ same state past religion. Crystals will happen in the future nature according to Scripture. Why not the past too?? Who cares how crystals are or must now be formed??
Same idiocy. Tell us why density of craters equals billions of years? Really. Try to tell us why. The answer will be same state past religion pretending it is science.
No. I posted an article a few days ago on this thread dealing exactly with the density of craters.
And now we are back to your standard, "but what if everything just looks like the laws of physics are accurate descriptions of how things work throughout the history of our universe?"

Either way though, your analysis of the article on the press release got their methodology completely wrong.
 
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