Eternal vs conditional security, or OSAS vs LOS

[Gabriel Anton]

The OT covenant wasn't for salvation. It was a tutor to lead us to Christ.

Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. Gal 3:24

All I can tell you is once you believe in the doctrine OSAS, your interpretation of the Word of God is skewed towards that doctrine.

OSAS doctrine becomes your God.

15 And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you,

16 speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.

You interpret Scriptures incorrectly, you perish.

 

[FreeGrace2]

All I can tell you is once you believe in the doctrine OSAS, your interpretation of the Word of God is skewed towards that doctrine.

All I can tell you is that it is the Word of God that convinces me of eternal security.

OSAS doctrine becomes your God.

It's sad that you don't see the nonsense in this comment.

15 And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you,

16 speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.

You interpret Scriptures incorrectly, you perish.

Yep. Just like King Saul, who was destroyed (killed) by God for consulting a medium, per 1 Chron 10:13,14 and yet, Samuel told Saul that he (Saul) would be with him (Samuel) the next day. That was the day that Saul died.

It is these facts that the eternal insecurity crowd cannot answer nor explain.

How about going back to the OP and explaining what the passages in the 5 points are teaching, since your view doesn't believe they teach eternal security.

If I'm wrong, I'd love to have someone explain to me what they do teach. Because I believe they do teach eternal security.

 

[ZacharyB]

I mosty agree with your OP, but there are some verses that seem to contradict OSAS. I recall Paul using phrases like "if you perservere" or "continue in the faith you will be saved."
There are also verses in Hebrew that warn about apostasy.
I think we have to perservere to the end to be saved, but once we are sealed with the Spirit, it will not allow us to fall away and we don't really have a choice but to perservere.
I personally agree with Unconditional Eternal Security, but I have seen good arguments for the other side as well. Also, I disagree with how some people teach it, causing some believers to get the wrong idea and live however they want.

Thank you for sharing your honest and balanced point of view.
But, why all of the many dire warnings about losing eternal life,
if it were not possible?
Don't you personally view these as being ...
exaggerations, bluffs, emply threats, or even lies?

 

[ZacharyB]

All I can tell you is once you believe in the doctrine OSAS,
your interpretation of the Word of God is skewed towards that doctrine.

Satan has deceived many believers throughout the ages
into believing many and various false doctrines.
(One needs to look no further than the RCC and EOC.)

Some believers today appear to be totally BLIND to
the many clear NT passages about believers losing eternal life.
But, there are several possible reasons for believers rejecting these warnings.

Two of the most dangerous current false doctrines are:
OSAS and the pre-tribulation rapture.
Both of these provide gullible believers into a false sense of security!

And this is just exactly what Satan wants to accomplish ...
and he has succeeded through the church and other means.
What else would one expect, for he is ...
"the god/ruler of this world/age" (John 12:31, 2 Corinthians 4:4),
"the father of lies", and "the one who deceives the whole world"!

But, talk about deception, and being totally deceived ...
witness the great multitudes of women standing on street corners,
witnessing to the great truths of the Jehovah's Witnesses organization!
Years ago, it cost Brooklyn 2 cents to produce their AWAKE magazine,
and they sold them to their faithful adherents for 25 cents each.
I wonder if the latter had to pay for the postage also!

Just another witness to the spiritual idiocy of the human race!

 

[FreeGrace2]

Thank you for sharing your honest and balanced point of view.
But, why all of the many dire warnings about losing eternal life,
if it were not possible?

Why is it NOT possible to post ANY verse that warns about losing eternal life??

None of the warnings even mention eternal life. Nor salvation.

Don't you personally view these as being ...
exaggerations, bluffs, emply threats, or even lies?

All the warnings can be shown to be warnings of either God's discipline towards His children, a totally biblical concept, or warnings of loss of eternal rewards, also a totally biblical concept.

What is more amazing is that those who believe in loss of salvation seem uninterested in explaining what any of the passages in the OP are teaching, if not eternal security.

Esp since ALL Scripture is God breathed and is PROFITABLE for:
doctrine (teaching)
reproof
correction
instruction in righteousness.

So, all the passages in the OP are profitable for at least one in the list that Paul provided in 2 Tim 3:16.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Satan has deceived many believers throughout the ages
into believing many and various false doctrines.
(One needs to look no further than the RCC and EOC.)

Let's add to that list the teaching of loss of salvation.

Some believers today appear to be totally BLIND to
the many clear NT passages about believers losing eternal life.

What is clear from all the warning passages is that eternal life is not even mentioned, nor is salvation, as to what may be lost.

Two of the most dangerous current false doctrines are:
OSAS and the pre-tribulation rapture.
Both of these provide gullible believers into a false sense of security!

That's the trouble with the LOS view. They have NO security, in spite of the many passages that guarantee the security of God's children. See the verses in the OP.

And this is just exactly what Satan wants to accomplish ...

Actually, he seeks someone to devour. There is no reason to believe that 1 Pet 5:8 refers to unbelievers. It's believers he seeks to devour. And one of the best ways to devour a Christian is to deceive them into the idea that they have no security.

 

[ZacharyB]

Yes, folks, the FG2 has just claimed there is
NO loss of salvation for believers who choose to:
-- reject their faith during the great tribulation
and/or
-- reject their faith by taking the mark of the beast
<< despite the clear dire warnings in the NT Scriptures >>

Because he insists on sticking with his false OSAS doctrine at all costs.

BTW, both of these tests of our faith are upcoming in the next few years!
And don't be taken off guard when you are NOT raptured pre-tribulation!
Instead, be prepared spiritually for a horrendous future on earth.
(Being a martyr for your Jesus is far better than spending eternity in hell.)

God's judgment/wrath has already begun to be poured out upon America.
Yes, what He is allowing to happen is part of His judgment/wrath.
But, let this not be mistaken for "the wrath of God" on the last day.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes, folks, the FG2 has just claimed there is
NO loss of salvation for believers who choose to:
-- reject their faith during the great tribulation
and/or
-- reject their faith by taking the mark of the beast
<< despite the clear dire warnings in the NT Scriptures >>

Unless there is a citation of a specific post number to back up this nonsense, it is nothing more than another lie of yours.

Because he insists on sticking with his false OSAS doctrine at all costs.

How come you've never addressed the passages in the OP and explained what they teach then?

Unless one can PROVE that the OP passages don't teach eternal security, anything else they may claim is just an opinion.

BTW, both of these tests of our faith are upcoming in the next few years!
And don't be taken off guard when you are NOT raptured pre-tribulation!
Instead, be prepared spiritually for a horrendous future on earth.
(Being a martyr for your Jesus is far better than spending eternity in hell.)

Actually, being a martyr will result in great rewards for the faithful believer.

But those who subscribe to the false doctrine of loss of salvation have no understanding of eternal rewards at all.

 

[ZacharyB]

Unless there is a citation of a specific post number to back up this nonsense, it is nothing more than another lie of yours.

Okay, the FG2 has just called me a liar.
How long will his banishment be this time around?
We await breathlessly to see.

Meanwhile, I am sick and tired of repeatedly posting the same
NT verses, which warn believers that salvation can be lost.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

All I can tell you is that it is the Word of God that convinces me of eternal security.


It's sad that you don't see the nonsense in this comment.


Yep. Just like King Saul, who was destroyed (killed) by God for consulting a medium, per 1 Chron 10:13,14 and yet, Samuel told Saul that he (Saul) would be with him (Samuel) the next day. That was the day that Saul died.

It is these facts that the eternal insecurity crowd cannot answer nor explain.

How about going back to the OP and explaining what the passages in the 5 points are teaching, since your view doesn't believe they teach eternal security.

If I'm wrong, I'd love to have someone explain to me what they do teach. Because I believe they do teach eternal security.

Do you believe you will be judged by God when you are laid to rest?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"Unless there is a citation of a specific post number to back up this nonsense, it is nothing more than another lie of yours."

Okay, the FG2 has just called me a liar.

The lack of any substance to your reply to my post proves the truth.

How long will his banishment be this time around?
We await breathlessly to see.

Being banished for asking for evidence??

Meanwhile, I am sick and tired of repeatedly posting the same
NT verses, which warn believers that salvation can be lost.

I can't help your health issues, but the OP of this very thread refutes the false doctrine of loss of salvation.

However, I have requested that anyone from the LOS side to address the passages in the OP and simply explain what they do teach.

Why hasn't anyone stepped up to the plate?

Why do the LOS-ers (no pun intended, seriously) simply ignore such texts?

Why do they seem totally uninterested in what these passages teach?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do you believe you will be judged by God when you are laid to rest?

Every believer will stand before the Bema (Judgment Seat of Christ):
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Cor 5:10

But this judgment does not occur when anyone is "laid to rest". It occurs once for all believers. We'll both be in line at the same time.

btw, why do you ask?

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Every believer will stand before the Bema (Judgment Seat of Christ):
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Cor 5:10

But this judgment does not occur when anyone is "laid to rest". It occurs once for all believers. We'll both be in line at the same time.

btw, why do you ask?

Whether you think you are saved or not saved, or whatever else you can think of, you have to be judged by someone else. That someone else is not you, He's God.

You can say this or that about yourself but in the end, God's Opinion and Judgment about you is all that matters.

You can believe whatever you like about Salvation in this life, whatever makes you happy and secure. It's not a problem.

God bless you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Whether you think you are saved or not saved, or whatever else you can think of, you have to be judged by someone else. That someone else is not you, He's God.

I guess you didn't read my post that you're responding to. Why bother responding if you're not going to read what I posted?

You can say this or that about yourself but in the end, God's Opinion and Judgment about you is all that matters.

Please read my post.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

I guess you didn't read my post that you're responding to. Why bother responding if you're not going to read what I posted?


Please read my post.

I guess you didn't read my post that you're responding to. Why bother responding if you're not going to read what I posted?


Please read my post.

Of course I read your post but you don't understand my answer to your question.

Eternal Security can only be if it is within your control. There is another Person involved in deciding your eternal fate and you cannot control Him or tell Him how to judge you. You get it?

God bless you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Of course I read your post but you don't understand my answer to your question.

Well, of course. That's why I questioned whether my post was read. It didn't seem to be, given your answer.

Eternal Security can only be if it is within your control.

That is so backward. ES is all about God's control and His power, not ours.

There is another Person involved in deciding your eternal fate and you cannot control Him or tell Him how to judge you. You get it?

Apparently more than you do.

What in the world would make one think that my view is that I'm in control of my eternal state?

Here's the biblical truth:
Man is fallen, and cannot save himself. Rom 3:23
God provided the free gift of eternal life through His Son. Jn 3:16, Rom 6:23
The gift of eternal life is received through faith in Christ. 1 Jn 1:16
The gifts of God are irrevocable. Rom 11:29
The gift of eternal life is therefore irrevocable.

 

[ZacharyB]

To da FG2:
There is another Person involved in deciding your eternal fate
and you cannot control Him or tell Him how to judge you. You get it?

No, he doesn't get it.
He thinks he can IGNORE God's warning verses and get away with it.
But, to make things worse, he teaches others to do the same!
His judgment will be severe, that's for sure.
Which is just another fact from the NT, which he IGNORES.

Of course, there are NT verses here and there,
which give the impression of OSAS.
Butski, these are for the precious milk-drinking babes in Christ
... to give them hope and to not discourage them!
The FG2 simply prefers to remain a milk-drinking babe
... because it feels good.

Most churches today teach ...
2 disastrous "feel-good" popular doctrines (OSAS and pre-trib rapture).
Everybody's happy and those tithes just keep rollin' in.

Yes, believers must reconcile ALL of the NT verses
into one doctrine of spiritual Truth.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Well, of course. That's why I questioned whether my post was read. It didn't seem to be, given your answer.


That is so backward. ES is all about God's control and His power, not ours.


Apparently more than you do.

What in the world would make one think that my view is that I'm in control of my eternal state?

Here's the biblical truth:
Man is fallen, and cannot save himself. Rom 3:23
God provided the free gift of eternal life through His Son. Jn 3:16, Rom 6:23
The gift of eternal life is received through faith in Christ. 1 Jn 1:16
The gifts of God are irrevocable. Rom 11:29
The gift of eternal life is therefore irrevocable.

Sounds like you know what you are talking about. Good luck to you during Judgment. You'll need it.

God bless you.

 

[CodyFaith]

Posted this in another thread that challenges OSAS, seems right I post it here too.

Ephesians 4:30
Ephesians 1:13 (sealed.)
John 5:25 (has passed from death unto life, no condemnation)
John 3:16
John 3:3 (being born again, of the Spirit, which you are sealed with)
Romans 6:23 (the gift)
Romans 8:12-13 (we are debtors, because our sins are now paid for, works come from this)
Ephesians 2:8-9
Romans 5:9 (justified by His blood)
Romans 3:25 (atonement, by his blood, through faith)
Jesus is the passover Lamb.

This is the gospel.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No, he doesn't get it.
He thinks he can IGNORE God's warning verses and get away with it.

I wish those who refer to my views would actually read them first before making such a stupid mistake. I've NEVER EVER said that those who ignore God's warnings will "get away with it". How absurd. Those who have actually read my posts know full well my biblical views of God's divine discipline towards His rebellious children. And I've given many biblical examples of God's discipline, which clearly demonstrate that no one gets away with anything.

But, to make things worse, he teaches others to do the same!

OK, either cite an actual post # where I've taught such garbage, or admit that you have no problem with LYING about others.

You haven't backed up a single claim of yours, whether it be about doctrine or about others' views.