Eternal vs conditional security, or OSAS vs LOS

FreeGrace2

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Sounds like you know what you are talking about. Good luck to you during Judgment. You'll need it.

God bless you.
Why will I need luck during Judgment? Please explain.

But on second thought, I don't know why I even ask. My question about your comment: "Eternal Security can only be if it is within your control" was not explained or answered.

I guess I shouldn't expect an explanation for your current comment.
 
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Gabriel Anton

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Why will I need luck during Judgment? Please explain.

But on second thought, I don't know why I even ask. My question about your comment: "Eternal Security can only be if it is within your control" was not explained or answered.

I guess I shouldn't expect an explanation for your current comment.

Let's say during Judgment you come before God believing you are saved.

And the basis of your belief is on the verses of Scripture you pointed out to me as Biblical Truths.

Then God would then commend you on believing in those verses of Scripture since All Scripture is inspired by God and is Profitable.

God would then turn your attention to what you said about, "All Scripture is inspired by God and is Profitable."

God would then say to you, "I find this verse of Scripture Very Important:

14 After this Jesus found him in the temple area and said to him, "Look, you are well; do not sin any more, so that nothing worse may happen to you.""

"What have you to say about this?" God will ask you since you seem to know Scripture.

God bless you.
 
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ZacharyB

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This is the gospel.
Wisdom is knowing who is talking to whom, and why.
What do think about Paul ONLY writing to the FAITHFUL saints at Ephesus (1:1)?
And ditto for those at Colossae (1:2)?
I wonder if anything at all in those 2 epistles apply to sinning Christians
... because such people certainly are NOT being faithful.

You have listed 10 verses supporting OSAS.
Now, would you care to see many dozens of verses
which warn believers that they can lose their salvation?
 
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ZacharyB

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"After this Jesus found him in the temple area and said to him, "Look, you are well; do not sin any more, so that nothing worse may happen to you.""

"What have you (the FG2) to say about this?"
God will ask you since you seem to know Scripture.
No, the FG2 only "knows" the OSAS verses.
He refuses to accept the dozens of verses ...
which warn believers that they can lose their salvation.

This to his own eternal destruction ... because he is a false teacher.
And we know what the NT says about the end of false teachers.

Some of the best verses against OSAS can be seen here ...
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...of-the-best-warnings-to-the-churches.7950899/

You will notice (especially in Revelation 21:7-8) that sinners of all kinds,
including liars, etc. are placed in the same category as "unbelievers".
They all will be cast into hell.
Hebrews agrees, saying disobedience is unbelief.
So, rebellious and disobedient sinners are simply displaying their unbelief.
This ties into what really is meant by "believe" in the so-called OSAS verses.
Yes, wow!
This is one of the ways we reconcile ALL of the NT verses!
 
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FreeGrace2

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Let's say during Judgment you come before God believing you are saved.
Let's just say that I know I'm saved based on the Word of God.

And the basis of your belief is on the verses of Scripture you pointed out to me as Biblical Truths.
This sounds very much like the verses I have pointed out aren't Biblical Truths. Why would anyone make such a silly claim?

Then God would then commend you on believing in those verses of Scripture since All Scripture is inspired by God and is Profitable.
No, He would let me in His kingdom, based on His own Word. Commendation is reserved for those who remained faithful. Entrance is based on the verses I've pointed out.

But don't worry, based on other verses about reward, I will be commended as well. ;)

God would then turn your attention to what you said about, "All Scripture is inspired by God and is Profitable."

God would then say to you, "I find this verse of Scripture Very Important:

14 After this Jesus found him in the temple area and said to him, "Look, you are well; do not sin any more, so that nothing worse may happen to you.""

"What have you to say about this?" God will ask you since you seem to know Scripture.

God bless you.
Since you're apparently not familiar with how the judgment is handled, no one gets a chance to defend themselves. Books are opened and the book of life is opened. Those who's names are in the book of life will enter the kingdom, and those who's names aren't in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Now, would you care to see many dozens of verses
which warn believers that they can lose their salvation?
There aren't any verses that state that one's salvation can be lost.

That is impossible, because eternal life is a gift of God, per Rom 6:23 and then Paul wrote in Rom 11:29 that God's gifts are irrevocable; the exact opposite of the notion of loss of salvation. And Paul did NOT provide any exceptions to God's gifts. Therefore, ALL of them are irrevocable.

Unless there is any verse that specifically states that some or even just one of God's gifts aren't irrevocable, there is no reason at all to accept the notion that one can lose salvation.
 
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FreeGrace2

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No, the FG2 only "knows" the OSAS verses.
It's really too bad that the zachary doesn't know them.

He refuses to accept the dozens of verses ...
which warn believers that they can lose their salvation.
Because there aren't any. The warning verses speak of loss of reward and blessings.

This to his own eternal destruction ... because he is a false teacher.
Your opinion is noted and flatly rejected.
 
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bcbsr

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What caught my eye first was the John 10:28 in your 3rd category.
In the past, you have had the meaning of this explained to you,
but you have refused to accept it.

John 10:
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.


For example ...
Not everyone who thinks they are known by Jesus ... are known by Jesus!
Matthew 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven,
but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me,
you who practice lawlessness!’

There is quite a nice long list in the NT about what is involved in doing God's will.
W. E. Vine says this "knew" means "approved of".
Jesus actually "knows" (has a relationship with) those He approves of,
which is NOT every born-again believer.

Wrong! Seems you have difficulty with basic reading comprehension skills. He's not saying that to become a sheep one must follow, but rather sheep do follow. Those born of God do follow Christ. This as opposed to your salvation by works concept.

Likewise notice "I never knew you!" He's not saying, as you allege, "I knew you, but now I don't", but rather that those who continue is sin reveal that they NEVER knew Christ to begin with.

"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9
 
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bcbsr

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OK then. Is your view that the Scriptures contradict themselves?

Second, what are the verses in the OP profitable for?


No. He never forces His gift of eternal life on anyone. But your question is irrelevant to the issue of loss of salvation.

The first, second, third, and fifth points in the OP show that once a person believes:
1. they HAVE eternal life John 5:24
2. eternal life is an irrevocable gift of God Rom 6:23, Rom 11:29
3. those given eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH John 10:28

These are irrefutable facts. So even those who might later cease to believe in God are still saved for the very reasons above.

And those who just become rebellious are saved as well, because of the fourth point.

If these verses don't teach eternal security, then what do they teach? Or, in what category, per 2 Tim 3:16 are they profitable for: reproof, correction, or instruction in righteousness?

Please explain your answer if you do answer.

Thanks.

I agree. The doctrine of Eternal Security is an essential part of the gospel. Those who reject it end up opting for a salvation by works gospel, which is no gospel at all. Those who don't believe Eternal Security are by definition "unbelievers". They are akin to "the circumcision" who opposed Paul and I refer to as the "Neo-Circumcision", given their theological roots.
 
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bcbsr

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I can quickly add ...
John 17:
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God,
and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

The NT teaches that this "knowing" refers to a personal relationship of some depth.
For example:
Romans 8:
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

This being led is a continual action, not a one-time deal.
Those being led have a personal relationship with God.

Yes, it's all about a close relationship of some depth.
This will result in a correct "heart attitude" about sin and repentance!

Once again those who have been born of God do know Christ. Those who have been born of God are led by the Spirit. Nothing you said here disproves OSAS
 
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Once again those who have been born of God do know Christ. Those who have been born of God are led by the Spirit. Nothing you said here disproves OSAS


My question would be....

When is one born of God?

It seem to me all through the different threads on these forums, people claiming to be sinners and
also claiming to be born again.

Scriptural testimony through John states.....

He who commits sin is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.
The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

No one born of God commits sin, for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because
he is born of God.
By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil,
whoever does not do right is not of God,
nor he who does not love his brother.

Are we misunderstanding what it is to be born of GOD.

Or is it possible that we can come to a place of believing and living "christian" lives, while not
having come to a place of being of BORN OF GOD?

If I were to use that scripture about ...he who is born of GOD cannot sin...
and apply this to our daily lives, can we honestly say.....

I cannot sin, because I am born of God......

Or do instead say....
It is impossible to live and not commit sin......

Are we really born again as long as we continue in committing sins, and it does not say, those born
of God, try not to sin, it states they cannot sin....?

Or are we on the journey to the new birth when we start believing?

Peter in one of his letters backs John on this...

Since Christ therefore suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same thought, for whoever
has suffered in the flesh. ..HAS CEASED FROM SIN,
so as to live for the rest of the time in the flesh no longer by human passions,
but by the will of God.

Have you ceased from sin, and are now living BY the will of GOD? not trying to do God's will,
but living by the will of God.


Paul spoke of these things in his letter to the Romans...

But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to
the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and,
HAVING BEEN SET FREE FROM SIN,
have become slaves of righteousness.


And...

But now that YOU HAVE BEEN SET FREE FROM SIN and HAVE BECOME SLAVES OF GOD,
the return you get is sanctification , and it's end, ETERNAL LIFE.
For the wages of sin is death,
but the free gift of God is ETERNAL LIFE in CHRIST JESUS our LORD.

So when do we have eternal security?

When one is born of GOD and cannot sin...
When you have suffered and ceased from sin, and are now living By the will of God..
When you have been set free from sin, and become slaves of GOD...
When at the end of sanctification, you have received the gift of Eternal Life. ..



Other than that , there is not eternal security found , no matter how much we want it to be there.


Let us seek God with our whole heart and everything that is within us,
that HE may bring us to this New Birth, BORN OF GOD, free from sin,
living By the will of God.

Father, open our eyes to see, how pitifully we grope around in the dark,
and misusing your testimony in the scriptures to feed our own carnal understanding.

Open our ears, to hear you and listen and follow.....



May God bless you.
 
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bcbsr

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My question would be....

When is one born of God?.

1Jo 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God

Ga 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

John 1:12,13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
 
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FreeGrace2

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My question would be....

When is one born of God?
When one believes. They become a "new creation" per 2 Cor 5:17.

It seem to me all through the different threads on these forums, people claiming to be sinners and
also claiming to be born again.
Paul explained why that happens. It's all about one's choice: which nature to obey; the human (sin) nature, or the new born again nature. Romans 6

Scriptural testimony through John states.....

He who commits sin is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.
The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

No one born of God commits sin, for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because
he is born of God.
By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil,
whoever does not do right is not of God,
nor he who does not love his brother.

Are we misunderstanding what it is to be born of GOD.
What is probably misunderstood mostly is 1 Jn 3:9 - No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God

If one understands the phrase "born of God" refers to the new nature, then one will understand that we cannot sin from our new born again nature. Why is that impossible? John tells us in the phrase "God's seed remains in him". This is the Holy Spirit. It is impossible to sin from the very nature where the Holy Spirit indwells.

Or is it possible that we can come to a place of believing and living "christian" lives, while not
having come to a place of being of BORN OF GOD?
Sure. Moral unbelievers can be even more humanly moral than many believers, but they are not born again.

If I were to use that scripture about ...he who is born of GOD cannot sin...
and apply this to our daily lives, can we honestly say.....

I cannot sin, because I am born of God......
One certainly CAN and DOES sin from the human (sin) nature. That was Paul's struggle in Romans 7.

Are we really born again as long as we continue in committing sins, and it does not say, those born
of God, try not to sin, it states they cannot sin....?
Review my explanation of 1 Jn 3:9.

But now that YOU HAVE BEEN SET FREE FROM SIN and HAVE BECOME SLAVES OF GOD,
the return you get is sanctification , and it's end, ETERNAL LIFE.
For the wages of sin is death,
but the free gift of God is ETERNAL LIFE in CHRIST JESUS our LORD.

So when do we have eternal security?
When we receive it through faith in Christ. John 5:24 says those who believe HAVE eternal life, and WILL NOT COME into condemnation.
 
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When one believes. They become a "new creation" per 2 Cor 5:17.


Paul explained why that happens. It's all about one's choice: which nature to obey; the human (sin) nature, or the new born again nature. Romans 6


What is probably misunderstood mostly is 1 Jn 3:9 - No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God

If one understands the phrase "born of God" refers to the new nature, then one will understand that we cannot sin from our new born again nature. Why is that impossible? John tells us in the phrase "God's seed remains in him". This is the Holy Spirit. It is impossible to sin from the very nature where the Holy Spirit indwells.


Sure. Moral unbelievers can be even more humanly moral than many believers, but they are not born again.


One certainly CAN and DOES sin from the human (sin) nature. That was Paul's struggle in Romans 7.


Review my explanation of 1 Jn 3:9.


When we receive it through faith in Christ. John 5:24 says those who believe HAVE eternal life, and WILL NOT COME into condemnation.



Just for clarification. ..
Are you of the understanding that when we become a new creation, that the old
man, the sin nature has not been crucified and buried with Christ yet?

I believe it was Paul that said in one of his letters....

Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation,
the OLD HAS PASSED AWAY. Behold the new has come.


Jesus spoke to the effect,...

He who loses his life, will gain it.

Don't recollect Jesus or any of the apostles speaking about having both the Old and the New
present at the same time.


If this is what you espouse, then I can see where all these winds of doctrines are coming from.


All I can say is.....wow.


I just hope I am misreading you on this post. So if you could clarify this for me that would be great.


Thank you
 
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FreeGrace2

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Just for clarification. ..
Are you of the understanding that when we become a new creation, that the old
man, the sin nature has not been crucified and buried with Christ yet?
No.

I believe it was Paul that said in one of his letters....

Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation,
the OLD HAS PASSED AWAY. Behold the new has come.
Yes. But this doesn't mean that the old nature, the sin nature, is gone and no longer an issue. Paul made that quite clear in Romans 7.

Jesus spoke to the effect,...

He who loses his life, will gain it.

Don't recollect Jesus or any of the apostles speaking about having both the Old and the New
present at the same time.
Then, just for clarification, are you of the understanding that the believer no longer has the sin nature, and therefore is no longer capable of sinning?

If this is what you espouse, then I can see where all these winds of doctrines are coming from.

All I can say is.....wow.
If your view is that the believer does not have a sin nature any more, then, yes, WOWSERS!!

I just hope I am misreading you on this post. So if you could clarify this for me that would be great.
ANd please return the favor.

Thank you
And thanks to you.
 
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No.


Yes. But this doesn't mean that the old nature, the sin nature, is gone and no longer an issue. Paul made that quite clear in Romans 7.


Then, just for clarification, are you of the understanding that the believer no longer has the sin nature, and therefore is no longer capable of sinning?


If your view is that the believer does not have a sin nature any more, then, yes, WOWSERS!!


ANd please return the favor.


And thanks to you.


Let me ask you this,...

If the Old man, sinful nature, has been CRUCIFIED, DEAD AND BURIED WITH CHRIST, would be fair to
say that when something is dead and buried, it is passed away, gone, done with.

If the Old man was crucified with Christ and dead, and if this were not so,

then by that logic I would have to assume that Christ wasn't really crucified and dead.


Yes Romans 7 , Paul addresses the same dilemma that most "Christians" are experiencing, living
under the law, in the flesh, before one comes to life in the Spirit.

Paul made it quite clear, as long as you are still under law and living in the flesh, you
cannot do right, no matter how much you love God and want to serve Him, you
will fail.

That is why Paul is so bold to say,...I have crucified the flesh with all its lusts and desires,...
..so it is no longer I who live, but Christ that lives in me.
And the life I now live, I live by faith in the Son of God....


For if we have been united with Him in a death LIKE HIS, we shall certainly be united with Him in a resurrection like His

We know that our old self WAS crucified with Him so that the sinful body might be destroyed,
that we might no longer be enslaved to sin.

For he who has died is FREED FROM SIN.

But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart
to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and,

HAVING BEEN SET FREE FROM SIN, have become slaves of righteousness.


And how have we been set free from sin?
The old sinful man was crucified and died with Christ on the tree.
For he who has died is freed from sin.


Where does Eternal Life come in.

When the Old sinful man is crucified, dead and buried with Christ,
Then.....we are raised to newness of life, Eternal Life.

There is no born again, no Eternal life, no newness of life, unless the old sinful man is dead and
buried.

When the old man is dead, you are freed from sin, the new has come,
New birth, born of God.

He that is born of God cannot sin.


Ever wondered why Jesus said, strive to enter by the narrow door, for many I tell you,
will seek to enter and will not be able.
And...
For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are FEW.

Only way to enter is by bearing your cross until you lose your life.
To renounce All that one has even your free will.

This is what real faith is about.

People like to quote, that Eternal Life is a gift, but let us read in context. ....

But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return
you get is sanctification and it's end ,Eternal Life.
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is ETERNAL LIFE in CHRIST Jesus our Lord.



Have you been set free from sin ?
Are you a slave of God?
Have you been sanctified and come to the end of it?

Then it is possible that you might have the gift of Eternal Life.

This is what real believing is all about.


Not just some mental assent to some scriptures, believing that in them we have Eternal Life.

You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life, and it is they
that bear witness to Me, yet you refuse to come to Me that you may have Life.


Oh Father open our eyes to see.

May God bless you.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Let me ask you this,...

If the Old man, sinful nature, has been CRUCIFIED, DEAD AND BURIED WITH CHRIST, would be fair to
say that when something is dead and buried, it is passed away, gone, done with.
No, it would not be fair to say that. Because Paul was clear in Romans 7 about his PRESENT struggle with his own sin nature. I recommend that Romans 7 be read, after confessing all known sins, and then asking God for the filling of the Holy Spirit, so that the conditions for understanding God's Word will be maximized.

If the Old man was crucified with Christ and dead, and if this were not so,

then by that logic I would have to assume that Christ wasn't really crucified and dead.
I think your logic is flawed, and that the meaning of God's Word isn't being correctly understood.

Yes Romans 7 , Paul addresses the same dilemma that most "Christians" are experiencing, living
under the law, in the flesh, before one comes to life in the Spirit.
Wrong. He was speaking about himself in the PRESENT TENSE. But anyone is free to ignore the obvious when they don't like what they read.

We know that our old self WAS crucified with Him so that the sinful body might be destroyed,
that we might no longer be enslaved to sin.
Are you paying attention to the subjunctive mood here: "that we MIGHT no longer be enslaved"??

For he who has died is FREED FROM SIN.
This means that we are freed from the penalty of sin. Not sin itself.

But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart
to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and,

HAVING BEEN SET FREE FROM SIN, have become slaves of righteousness.
Agan, we are set free from the PENALTY of sin. Not sin itself.

And how have we been set free from sin?
The old sinful man was crucified and died with Christ on the tree.
For he who has died is freed from sin.
Again, freed from the PENALTY of sin.

Where does Eternal Life come in.
When one believes in Christ. 1 Tim 1:16 - But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.

When the old man is dead, you are freed from sin, the new has come,
New birth, born of God.
Do you believe that you no longer sin?

He that is born of God cannot sin.
Again, do you believe that you no longer sin?

Have you been set free from sin ?
Yes.

Are you a slave of God?
Only when I'm filled with the Holy Spirit. How often are you filled with the Spirit?

Have you been sanctified and come to the end of it?
I have no idea what you're asking.

Then it is possible that you might have the gift of Eternal Life.
It's far MORE than just possible. I HAVE eternal life.

This is what real believing is all about.
Please define your working definition of 'believe'.

Not just some mental assent to some scriptures, believing that in them we have Eternal Life.

You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life, and it is they
that bear witness to Me, yet you refuse to come to Me that you may have Life.
It seems to me you're twisting Scriptures to fit your opinions.

When Jesus said that to unbelieving Jews, His whole point was that they rejected (didn't believe) that He was the Messiah, in spite of all the evidence that he was.
 
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No, it would not be fair to say that. Because Paul was clear in Romans 7 about his PRESENT struggle with his own sin nature. I recommend that Romans 7 be read, after confessing all known sins, and then asking God for the filling of the Holy Spirit, so that the conditions for understanding God's Word will be maximized.


I think your logic is flawed, and that the meaning of God's Word isn't being correctly understood.


Wrong. He was speaking about himself in the PRESENT TENSE. But anyone is free to ignore the obvious when they don't like what they read.


Are you paying attention to the subjunctive mood here: "that we MIGHT no longer be enslaved"??


This means that we are freed from the penalty of sin. Not sin itself.


Agan, we are set free from the PENALTY of sin. Not sin itself.


Again, freed from the PENALTY of sin.


When one believes in Christ. 1 Tim 1:16 - But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.


Do you believe that you no longer sin?


Again, do you believe that you no longer sin?


Yes.


Only when I'm filled with the Holy Spirit. How often are you filled with the Spirit?


I have no idea what you're asking.


It's far MORE than just possible. I HAVE eternal life.


Please define your working definition of 'believe'.


It seems to me you're twisting Scriptures to fit your opinions.

When Jesus said that to unbelieving Jews, His whole point was that they rejected (didn't believe) that He was the Messiah, in spite of all the evidence that he was.



For the record, you state........

We are freed from the penalty of sin. Not sin itself.


Let it be known to you, that are not speaking the Truth concerning Christ and what HE accomplished

by His Death, Burial, Resurrection and Ascension.

Christ Jesus conquered death itself as it is written......

Death is swallowed up in Victory,

O death where is thy victory?
O death where is thy sting?
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

But thanks be to God, who gives us the Victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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FreeGrace2

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For the record, you state........

We are freed from the penalty of sin. Not sin itself.

Let it be known to you, that are not speaking the Truth concerning Christ and what HE accomplished
What He accomplished was paying the PENALTY for our sins.

by His Death, Burial, Resurrection and Ascension.

Christ Jesus conquered death itself as it is written......
What this means is that anyone who believes in Him will NEVER PERISH, because they have eternal life.

Death is swallowed up in Victory,

O death where is thy victory?
O death where is thy sting?
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

But thanks be to God, who gives us the Victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
I asked several questions. Was there any plan to answer them, or just dodge them?

Specifically, do you believe that you no longer sin? That is my impression from your posts.

You either do or don't. I'm just trying to get a handle on your views, so as to have a better understanding of where you're coming from.

Thanks.
 
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What He accomplished was paying the PENALTY for our sins.



Then I will ask straight out, did Christ come to set us free from sin?

or

was His death and resurrection and ascension only enough to deal with the penalty of sin?


As far as your question to my walk whether or not I.......?

This is not about me, but about God's Truth !!!!!
but since the likes of you will hound one and want make it personal, it will put that part to rest,
by saying, yes, I do keep His commandments.

Are you keeping His commandments? So if you could please answer that and get that out of the way,

so we return to speaking God's Truth.


Thank you.
 
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