Frances Collins concept of God

DogmaHunter

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I am not an expert, I can only show where two experts disagree and conflict and point out which one is right and which one is wrong.

So...................

First, you state that you are not an expert and in the next breath, you claim to be able to point out which expert is correct, when two experts disagree on a subject that you yourself, by your own admission, are not an expert in??????


There are people that believe that cancer is the result of people that are in conflict with themselves because of self contradictions.


Ow my.........
 
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Loudmouth

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You are missing the point and I found an article that sums it up explicitly. It all comes down to the fact that EvoSysBio is finding that there is a lot more variation then what was once thought and the NeoDarwinism approach of waiting for a new or existing Gene mutation to become common so as to effect a trait is inevitably slow. Darwinism, NeoDarwinism and PostNeoDarwinism has failed with their mutation theory because there is simply not enough time to get the job done. That is why we have EvoDevo and now EvoSysBio to bridge that GAP and to attempt to explain what NeoDarwin mutation theory fails to do with its emphasis on simple single gene mutations.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bies.200900166/abstract

What is written on the first page of the paper is more than enough to falsify your claims:

upload_2016-5-20_9-16-43.png


They are saying that relatively few mutations can have a much larger effect due to the network aspect of gene interactions.

Again and I do not know how many millions and billions of times we are going to have to tell you this. Science is not anti-theistic or anti-theism. Science is neutral. So your attempts at revisionism and anti theism is anti-Science. I have no burden of proof that ever jot and ever tittle in the Bible is accurate and true because you have nothing to show otherwise.

You are the one claiming that the Bible is accurate. Your burden of proof. If you can't show how it is accurate, then your argument is without support and it is rejected.
 
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Loudmouth

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The key word here is beneficial. You claim that A111T is a mutation and that it is beneficial. Yet as a general rule people with lighter color European skin are not happy with their lighter skin.

People can not be happy with their skin color, and their skin color can still be beneficial. In the case of light skin, it aids in Vitamin D synthesis in higher latitudes where sunlight is less intense. Unless you can show that it doesn't provide this benefit, then your argument is completely unsupported.
 
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joshua 1 9

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People can not be happy with their skin color, and their skin color can still be beneficial. In the case of light skin, it aids in Vitamin D synthesis in higher latitudes where sunlight is less intense. Unless you can show that it doesn't provide this benefit, then your argument is completely unsupported.
You are the one that is failing to show a benefit. Can you prove that African and Asian people have a vitamin D deficiency in comparison to European people? They facts pretty much blow your off the cuff theory right out of the water.

Also your whole theory smacks of racism and prejudice. Asian people are going to protest your suggesting that somehow white European people are superior to them based on their skin color. The white supremacists may salute that flag if you run it up the pole though. So is that the point your trying to make that evolutionary theory is rampant with racism and prejudice because that seems to be the point that you are making here.

"70 percent of Europeans suffer from low vitamin D levels, experts say"
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/01/120110102058.htm
 
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joshua 1 9

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What is written on the first page of the paper is more than enough to falsify your claims:
The whole point is that: "The evolution of complex traits is one of the major enigmas in evolutionary biology. While we know a lot about phenotypic variation within populations, much remains to be explored about the genetic causes and consequences of trait complexity." Enigma means
a mysterious, puzzling, or difficult to understand.
synonyms: mystery, puzzle, riddle, conundrum, paradox, problem, quandary

I am not arguing against evolution per say. I am just saying that you don't have a clue as how it works. Your attempts to try to explain the mechanism of evolution are rather pathetic. Very weak and not very persuasive. You can wear rose colored glasses if that makes you happy but life is a mystory and religion trys to address that issue in areas that science fails. If science could get the job done then we would have no need for religion but science fails to deliver what they claim they can deliver. Often they offer little more then smoke and mirrors. I know I sound pragmatic but I am actually pretty serious about the fact that far to often we fail to address the issues that are facing us as a nationion and as a society today. So you can try to take away religion if you want but you need to be prepared to offer something in return.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Do you think that "EvoSysBio" or "EvoDevo" support your assertion that beneficial mutations don't occur?
They show exactly what I said they show that: NeoDarwinism approach of waiting for a new or existing Gene mutation to become common so as to effect a trait is inevitably slow. Darwinism, NeoDarwinism and PostNeoDarwinism have all been falsified. They are waiting for a new theory to come along to explain the mechanism of evolution but to date it is unknown. The evidence shows what I have been saying all along that the variation is there from the beginning. That information in the DNA is lost not gained over time. Some people believe that the universe started off the size of a mustard seed and all the information for everything was already there in the beginning.
 
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joshua 1 9

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I'm not really sure what the "mutation theory" you keep referring to means.
I define it from time to time but not in ever post. For example Science (Neo-Darwinism) says: "The genetic variation on which natural selection acts may occur randomly, but natural selection itself is not random at all." Evo-Devo talks about natural laws or the laws of the universe so nothing is left to chance. You can go anywhere in the universe and end up with the same results as we see here because evolution is governed by the natural laws.
 
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bhsmte

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They show exactly what I said they show that: NeoDarwinism approach of waiting for a new or existing Gene mutation to become common so as to effect a trait is inevitably slow. Darwinism, NeoDarwinism and PostNeoDarwinism have all been falsified. They are waiting for a new theory to come along to explain the mechanism of evolution but to date it is unknown. The evidence shows what I have been saying all along that the variation is there from the beginning. That information in the DNA is lost not gained over time. Some people believe that the universe started off the size of a mustard seed and all the information for everything was already there in the beginning.

How does it feel, to know more biology, then the worlds most accomplished phd biologists?
 
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joshua 1 9

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How does it feel, to know more biology, then the worlds most accomplished phd biologists?
My family is jammed packed full of medical doctors and PhDs and for the most part they are idiots. But they do know a lot about a very select amount of information. For example my bother in law is a PhD in computers, he can tell you anything and everything about Cisco. But there is a lot about computers that he knows nothing about. It amazed me how simple of a question I can ask him and he does not have the answer. Once I asked a friend of mine with a PhD in physics about Quantum Physics and he knew NOTHING about the subject. The only thing he studies was classic physics. That surprised me that he knew nothing about Quantum Physics but it should not have. Is this enough or do you want me to go on to give you more examples? How about my brother. He is director of the Psychology Dept at the local hospital. I asked him a question once about memory and the brain. Perhaps it was more neurological but still he did not know the answer. He had never studied it. Yet he considers himself an expert on Psychology and he claims to know everything about psychology but he is really a dysfunctional idiot as far as I am concerned. How can you claim to know Psychology and know know about the Neurology and the Physiology of the brain? To the point where you can not even answer a simple question about memory and how memory is stored in the Brain. This is no reflection on Psychology in general. I did talk to a Cardio Psychology specialist once and she was pretty knowledge able about her area of expertise. Of course like most other people she knew very little outside of her area that she professionally dedicated herself to.
 
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Hoghead1

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They show exactly what I said they show that: NeoDarwinism approach of waiting for a new or existing Gene mutation to become common so as to effect a trait is inevitably slow. Darwinism, NeoDarwinism and PostNeoDarwinism have all been falsified. They are waiting for a new theory to come along to explain the mechanism of evolution but to date it is unknown. The evidence shows what I have been saying all along that the variation is there from the beginning. That information in the DNA is lost not gained over time. Some people believe that the universe started off the size of a mustard seed and all the information for everything was already there in the beginning.


Exactly how have they been falsified?
 
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bhsmte

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My family is jammed packed full of medical doctors and PhDs and for the most part they are idiots. But they do know a lot about a very select amount of information. For example my bother in law is a PhD in computers, he can tell you anything and everything about Cisco. But there is a lot about computers that he knows nothing about. It amazed me how simple of a question I can ask him and he does not have the answer. Once I asked a friend of mine with a PhD in physics about Quantum Physics and he knew NOTHING about the subject. The only thing he studies was classic physics. That surprised me that he knew nothing about Quantum Physics but it should not have. Is this enough or do you want me to go on to give you more examples? How about my brother. He is director of the Psychology Dept at the local hospital. I asked him a question once about memory and the brain. Perhaps it was more neurological but still he did not know the answer. He had never studied it. Yet he considers himself an expert on Psychology and he claims to know everything about psychology but he is really a dysfunctional idiot as far as I am concerned. How can you claim to know Psychology and know know about the Neurology and the Physiology of the brain? To the point where you can not even answer a simple question about memory and how memory is stored in the Brain. This is no reflection on Psychology in general. I did talk to a Cardio Psychology specialist once and she was pretty knowledge able about her area of expertise. Of course like most other people she knew very little outside of her area that she professionally dedicated herself to.

Word salad.
 
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Loudmouth

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You are the one that is failing to show a benefit. Can you prove that African and Asian people have a vitamin D deficiency in comparison to European people?

"Vitamin D insufficiency is more prevalent among African Americans (blacks) than other Americans and, in North America, most young, healthy blacks do not achieve optimal 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] concentrations at any time of year. This is primarily due to the fact that pigmentation reduces vitamin D production in the skin."
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/4/1126.full

Also your whole theory smacks of racism and prejudice. Asian people are going to protest your suggesting that somehow white European people are superior to them based on their skin color. The white supremacists may salute that flag if you run it up the pole though. So is that the point your trying to make that evolutionary theory is rampant with racism and prejudice because that seems to be the point that you are making here.

"70 percent of Europeans suffer from low vitamin D levels, experts say"
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/01/120110102058.htm

Pointing out the fact that melanin blocks vitamin D production is not racist. You really need to get a grip.
 
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Loudmouth

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I define it from time to time but not in ever post. For example Science (Neo-Darwinism) says: "The genetic variation on which natural selection acts may occur randomly, but natural selection itself is not random at all." Evo-Devo talks about natural laws or the laws of the universe so nothing is left to chance. You can go anywhere in the universe and end up with the same results as we see here because evolution is governed by the natural laws.

So if you shuffled a deck of cards and drew one card, the results would be the same no matter how many times you repeated the experiment? You would draw the same card every time?
 
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Loudmouth

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The whole point is that: "The evolution of complex traits is one of the major enigmas in evolutionary biology. While we know a lot about phenotypic variation within populations, much remains to be explored about the genetic causes and consequences of trait complexity." Enigma means
a mysterious, puzzling, or difficult to understand.

And? Every single biologist I know has no doubt that the vast majority of differences between species is due to genetic differences. Even the paper you cited said that changes are caused by mutations.

I am not arguing against evolution per say. I am just saying that you don't have a clue as how it works.

Say what?

I have actually worked with gene regulation networks in the lab. I have used RT-PCR and both Western and Northern blots to measure changes in gene regulation. I have even been published in real peer reviewed papers on these subjects. What have you done?

Your attempts to try to explain the mechanism of evolution are rather pathetic. Very weak and not very persuasive. You can wear rose colored glasses if that makes you happy but life is a mystory and religion trys to address that issue in areas that science fails. If science could get the job done then we would have no need for religion but science fails to deliver what they claim they can deliver. Often they offer little more then smoke and mirrors. I know I sound pragmatic but I am actually pretty serious about the fact that far to often we fail to address the issues that are facing us as a nationion and as a society today. So you can try to take away religion if you want but you need to be prepared to offer something in return.

Notice how you can't even address the science. All you can do is attack my character, as usual.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Word salad.
Look at Obama. He is a very intelligent person and yet he may go down into history as one of the most stupid presidents we have ever had. He has LOTS of competition from presidents with lower IQ for this distinction. You would think this is a great enigma but he was corrupted by what is considered to be one of the greatest (best) universities in the world. So you call this enigma a word salad because you just are not able to make any sense out of it. How can one of our most intelligent presidents be one of our most stupid presidents? One clue is that he is a pawn in the pocket of health care professionals. Their job is to match up care givers with care takers. Yet their objective seems to be to put as much money in their pocket as they can. There are many people that can do a much better job of running the health care profession. But these are the ones that paid to get Obama elected so what we end up with is Obama care: one of the biggest rip offs in the history of mankind. It is anything but affordable. Anyways you say this is all word salad to you, so there is no reason for me to continue to talk about it.
 
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joshua 1 9

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All you can do is attack my character, as usual.
No I attacked your argument as weak. That is no reflection on you. I would question if it is even your argument as for the most part you just repeat what you hear from others. You need to present a stronger argument if you hope to have any degree of persuasiveness.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Exactly how have they been falsified?
DNA falsified Darwinism and gave us the "modern synthesis" which is the political correct term for Darwinism. Then Gould and Eldredge came along with punctuated equilibrium and that falsified NeoDarwinism and gave us PostNeoDarwinism.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Pointing out the fact that melanin blocks vitamin D production is not racist. You really need to get a grip.
Evolution in general is a racist theory, you just take the theory to a new level of racism.
 
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joshua 1 9

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So if you shuffled a deck of cards and drew one card, the results would be the same no matter how many times you repeated the experiment? You would draw the same card every time?
It looks like I am going to have to work on getting this more simple so that it can be better understood.
 
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