How has scientific knowledge affected your faith?

[AV1611VET]

Awesome. Enjoy.

Thank you.

Good luck in your search for a Christian church.

Be sure and ask them before you join it where the Antichrist may come from, or if they preach creationism.

You might find them "strange."

 

[Hetta]

Thank you.

Good luck in your search for a Christian church.

Be sure and ask them before you join it where the Antichrist may come from, or if they preach creationism.

You might find them "strange."

<eye roll> Not the top of my list when church hunting.

 

[AV1611VET]

<eye roll> Not the top of my list when church hunting.

Fair enough.

You run the risk of joining a church, being in it for awhile, then one night the pastor preaches that the Antichrist will probably come out of Europe.

Then what will you do?

Go back to church hopping?

 

[Ophiolite]

No wonder then you're seeking a Christian church.

Evidently Europe doesn't have what you're looking for?

Or am I wrong?

Even for you, that is rather offensive.

 

[Hetta]

Fair enough.

You run the risk of joining a church, being in it for awhile, then one night the pastor preaches that the Antichrist will probably come out of Europe.

Then what will you do?

Go back to church hopping?

Have you never heard of the dangers of assuming things? Two churches in 14 years is not "hopping."

But I have never heard that Antichrist once while I attended an American or European church. Perhaps pastors are more intent on preaching how people should live, and not fantasizing about realms which belong to God, not man.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

I can see why too.

I can't remember, but didn't you start a thread somewhere with a valid question, and when I answered it, critiqued my answer?

When I read that, I told myself you're about as honest as a three-dollar bill.

I can't understand those who appeal for help in believing, then reject someone's answer(s).

Have you ever seen a duck biting the hand of a person trying to wash the oil off of it?

You must be thinking of someone else. I haven't rejected any suggestions to find faith.

 

[lesliedellow]

Let go and let God.

One of the few sensible things AV has ever said.

 

[lesliedellow]

That's been my approach but it hasn't worked. Hence why I participate in these threads, looking for some evidence of a God to develop a foundation for faith, or failing that, to just accept agnosticism.

Believe as much as you can, and then leave the rest up to God. If you are still young, there are a few decades yet for God to bring you to whatever destination he has in mind for you, faith wise.

 

[Hetta]

One of the few sensible things AV has ever said.

It's a shame he doesn't follow his own advice.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Believe as much as you can, and then leave the rest up to God. If you are still young, there are a few decades yet for God to bring you to whatever destination he has in mind for you, faith wise.

I'm not young, but hopefully there's still a few decades left. I've been at it, searching for faith, for many decades already though.

 

[KWCrazy]

So, it's an emotional appeal, then.

No, statement of fact. Jesus taught that the Scriptures were accurate as written.

I don't think anyone states it in such wording. More specifically, the word "only".

In philosophy, naturalism is the "idea or belief that only natural (as opposed to supernatural or spiritual) laws and forces operate in the world." - Wikki

You mean, specific interpretations thereof.

What part of "For in six days the Lord created the heavens and the earth" requires interpretation? The interpretation is in using the theories of man to re-define the words of the Lord.

When and how was the "supernatural" demonstrated to exist?

Demonstrated to whom? Adam walked with the Lord. The prophets spoke with the Lord and heard His voice. The disciples lived with Jesus and witnessed His miracles. Throughout our history mankind has always known that God was real, though not every civilization had the same concept. Much of it was polluted with man's additions or subtractions. Many of the those in this forum have experienced the supernatural, and have written of their encounters. It is the height of ignorance to simply ignore all these stories, close your eyes and say "I haven't seen anything." Do you have any idea how many MILLIONS of people must be lying for you to be right??

Nah. Many of you

believe that you experienced that.
I don't deny people's experiences. But I will challenge unsupported interpretations / explanations of those experiences.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

No. It's an indication that people

believe all kinds of things.

I could give you a LONG list of the testimony of atheists who actually encountered the supernatural, but you wouldn't believe them.

 

[AV1611VET]

The books that I might recommend deal with honest, careful observations of the world you believe God created, using the intellect you believe God provided.

Then why are you an agnostic?

Evidently these books have nothing to do with God and everything to do with teaching me how you guys play connect-the-dots.

And how you play your game is not what I'm interested in.

It's the conclusions of science that I run through my boolean standards.

 

[Ophiolite]

Then why are you an agnostic?

I have already explained this to you. But here we go again. I'll offer it up in more detail in the hope that you might get it this time.
1. I see no meaningful evidence for the existence of any of the varieties of Christian God.
2. I see no meaningful evidence for the existence of any of the other varieties of God.
3. On that basis you might ask (and did ask) why I am not an atheist.
4. The fact that the universe exists is intriguing. The fact that we do not know how it originated is equally so. This raises the possibility of a First Cause. Since the character of the First Cause is currently unknowable, the possibility that it might be considered a God, is not excluded.
5. Consequently, I am of necessity an agnostic.

Evidently these books have nothing to do with God and everything to do with teaching me how you guys play connect-the-dots.

Since these books provide - as I have already said - an honest and diligent examination of the world that you believe God created, then they have everything to do with your God. Many of them have been written by Christians.

Once again your decision to ignore these works looks inexplicable. What do you fear? Wasting your time? It can hardly be more of a waste of time than that which you invest of many of your posts.

And how you play your game is not what I'm interested in.

One of the things I am interested in is the wonder of the world we inhabit. The world you believe was created by your God. Yet you have no desire to learn more about those wonders. Strange.

It's the conclusions of science that I run through my boolean standards.

The conclusions of science can not be properly evaluated without due consideration of the data and methdology from which they were derived. By ignoring these your assessments are necessarily flawed.

My offer to recommend appropriate books, including personal on-line tuition to help you appreciate their content, is open ended - until such time as death or senility prove restrictive.

 

[AV1611VET]

1. I see no meaningful evidence for the existence of any of the varieties of Christian God.

You probably have come in contact with hundreds of evidence for the existence of God in your lifetime.

Christian churches, hymns, organizations, holidays, bumper stickers, and time divided into BC/AD evidently mean nothing to you.

And that's your prerogative.

But don't act surprised that your alleles and genomes and whatnot that speak to you of evolution mean nothing to me.

2. I see no meaningful evidence for the existence of any of the other varieties of God.

Then you've got a problem, IMO.

But that's just my opinion.

Even God calls these things "gods."

4. The fact that the universe exists is intriguing.

Ya.

It intrigued David too.

So much so that he wrote a Psalm about it: (Psalm 19).

One that you guys like to use to say the Bible speaks of geocentrism.

Did David need all that allele stuff to appreciate God and His creation?

No.

That stuff wasn't even available to him at the time.

And if David didn't need it, I don't need it either.

Since these books provide - as I have already said - an honest and diligent examination of the world that you believe God created, then they have everything to do with your God. Many of them have been written by Christians.

That doesn't mean I should read them.

One of the things I am interested in is the wonder of the world we inhabit.

Only to a point.

 

[JackRT]

Because true faith is generated and solidified by the word of God.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Your verse reminds me that some years ago some churches were using it a reason to exclude the deaf and mute from Christian fellowship. Shows to go ya the extremes of literal bible interpretation.

 

[AV1611VET]

Your verse reminds me that some years ago some churches were using it a reason to exclude the deaf and mute from Christian fellowship. Shows to go ya the extremes of literal bible interpretation.

Yup.

That's pretty bad.

Here's unbelievers' remedy:

"Let's not teach the Bible in school."

 

[JackRT]

Yup.

That's pretty bad.

Here's unbelievers' remedy:

"Let's not teach the Bible in school."

And here is my remedy:

"Let's not take the Bible literally. Instead, let's take it seriously."

 

[AV1611VET]

And here is my remedy:

"Let's not take the Bible literally. Instead, let's take it seriously."

The rule of thumb is:

Interpret the Bible literally, unless It makes no sense to do so.

I believe some refer to it as the "Golden Rule of Interpretation:"

WHEN THE PLAIN SENSE OF SCRIPTURE MAKES COMMON SENSE, SEEK NO OTHER SENSE.

 

[JackRT]

The rule of thumb is:

Interpret the Bible literally, unless It makes no sense to do so.

I believe some refer to it as the "Golden Rule of Interpretation:"

WHEN THE PLAIN SENSE OF SCRIPTURE MAKES COMMON SENSE, SEEK NO OTHER SENSE.

That would be sound advice if and only if the reader was thoroughly aware of the entire context of the bible including history, culture, literary traditions, cosmology, etc. If these are not understood then frequently a "plain reading" would give entirely the wrong understanding. The vast majority of the laity and more than a few clergy are so blissfully unaware of this that they are eager to condemn those who do.

 

[lesliedellow]

WHEN THE PLAIN SENSE OF SCRIPTURE MAKES COMMON SENSE, SEEK NO OTHER SENSE.

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

Does the plain sense stop being common sense when you (hopefully) don't like what it says?