How has scientific knowledge affected your faith?

[AV1611VET]

And how does that work exactly? I have heard the word, read the word, and haven't received faith.

Your faith preference says otherwise.

 

[lesliedellow]

Doctrine can affect people like that.

Especially those who are allergic to it

Ooh, I can doubtless manage the Nicene Creed, or the Westminster Confession, but American Christianity is......

Really something else, man!!!

 

[DogmaHunter]

No you, particularly, but it's a reminder to others.

So, it's an emotional appeal, then.

Rational is your word. Mine is naturalism; the believe that only natural forces control what happens on earth.

I don't think anyone states it in such wording. More specifically, the word "only".
A better formulation would be: "we only have evidence of natural forces".
That doesn't exclude "non-natural" forces by definition.

This pope embraces many things which are contrary to the teaching of the Bible, which is why he is so controversial.

You mean, specific interpretations thereof.

Your interpretation of reality leaves out most of that which exists. You deny the existence of the supernatural.

When and how was the "supernatural" demonstrated to exist?

Many of us here have experienced the supernatural

Nah. Many of you believe that you experienced that.
I don't deny people's experiences. But I will challenge unsupported interpretations / explanations of those experiences.

That is a clear illustration that you are completely wrong.

No. It's an indication that people believe all kinds of things.

Like Thomas, you refuse to believe until you see it with your own eyes.

I go even further then Thomas. My eyes can deceive me.
When I see something, then the only thing that is for sure is that I saw *something*. My interpretation of what the nature of that "something" is, is not necessarily correct.

People can make mistakes, you know....

It's not likely to happen, though. Evidence of the supernatural is all around us and you can't see it.

Such as?

We all do.

I don't. I can only believe by compulsion. I first need to be convinced of the truth of a thing before I'll believe it. What I find convincing is not something I "choose" either. It's a combination of several things: trust, evidence, reasonable argumentation,...

I can't "choose" to believe that bigfoot exists.
I can't "choose" to believe that I will survive jumping from the Eiffel Tower.

However, I am compelled to believe that I would plummeth to my dead, jumping from the Eiffel Tower.
I am compelled to believe that I will hurt myself if I put my hand in a fire.

I don't "choose" these beliefs.

What you feed your mind is what you get out of it. Feed it disbelief and you get more disbelief. Fed it a hunger to discover the truth and it opens up to new possibilities.

Try feeding it with evidence.

You're on a Christian website attacking the Bible and Christianity. Reaction is not only relevant, but not expecting the reaction shows an incredible lack of reasoning.

It isn't relevant to the topic at hand.

Science teaches cause and effect, but it can't answer the question of first cause.

Science doesn't even posit a "first cause". That's a religious argument.

It can't account for origination.

You mean, at this point, the origins of the universe are still unkown.

It can't explain the encounters with the supernatural that millions of people report

Assuming those encounters are even real to begin with.
Secondly, when the "supernatural" is defined in such a way that it is literally put outside of the scope of scientific inquiry, then don't be surprised that it is outside of the scope of scientific inquiry.

and it can't explain the miracles that 25% of Americans believe they've experienced.

Assuming these miracles are actually real to begin with.

Your version of reality is simplistic and blind to much of the world around you. That's hardly a logical, well reasoned world view.

When that "much of the world around me" is entirely based on superstition, faith based claims and unverifiable bare assertions... then it's a very logical and reasoned position to not really care about that world.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ooh, I can doubtless manage the Nicene Creed, or the Westminster Confession, but American Christianity is......

Really something else, man!!!

Some believe Gandhi didn't like us either.

Didn't he say, "I dig your Jesus, not your Christians"?

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Your faith preference says otherwise.

Well I'm still trying. I practice a faith I don't have, hoping someday it will come, but it's getting less likely I fear.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well I'm still trying. I practice a faith I don't have, hoping someday it will come, but it's getting less likely I fear.

Let go and let God.

 

[Hetta]

God does.In the meantime, you'll badmouth churches in America as "strange"?You do know some believe the Antichrist will come from Europe, don't you? Or is that "strange" too?

I believe that certain American writers believe that, yes. Bless their hearts.

 

[AV1611VET]

I believe that certain American writers believe that, yes. Bless their hearts.

If you disagree, where do you think he will come from?

Or, as I suspect, is it easier not to form an opinion so you can criticize those who do?

Or do I have you pegged wrong?

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Let go and let God.

That's been my approach but it hasn't worked. Hence why I participate in these threads, looking for some evidence of a God to develop a foundation for faith, or failing that, to just accept agnosticism.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The bottom line is you cannot say anything is wrong absolutely based solely on science and therefore even probability fails.
Basically your argument would be I just believe it

I don't "just believe" that jumping from the Eiffel Tower will result in certain death.
I don't "just believe" that putting my hand in the fire will cause pain.
I don't "just believe" that if I drop my keys, they will fall towards the earth instead of shooting into space.

, since Science has not and cannot be proven to be valid itself

The scientific method, as a way to find out how stuff works, is validated every single day when you succesfully use technology that only works as a direct result of scientific investigation.

Nukes explode. Cars drive. PC's boot.

The scientific method is validated based on an impeccable track record of finding usefull and accurate explanations for phenomena of reality.

, but needs an additional variable, which in your case seems to be an absolute belief in science's validity.

Again: no.

Again: nukes explode. I don't need "belief" in anything. I have evidence.
"belief" is what you need when you don't have evidence.

The successful track record of science demonstrates the validity of the method.

For crying out loud, our entire modern technological civilisation is a direct result of the scientific method.

Which is just that, a belief, as valid as any other, whether Christianity or Potterism or Pastafarianism.

No.

Christianity is a faith-based system of beliefs.
Science is an evidence based system of inquiry.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Please read my above posts. To old testament Creation it is not falsifiable as it is a belief. I never said I believe in a flood, did I?

Read the posts you are replying too.
From the start, I was talking about fundamentalist interpretations. About people that literally believe these stories.

When the stories are claimed to be literally true, and not just some metaphoric "moral of the story" kind of tale, then those stories are filled with testable claims about physical reality.

Besides, your arguing for using Science alone for reality testing while having no idea what Science even is. No, I've had enough.

If you know of another method besides science, with at least the same track record, to investigate reality, I'm all ears.

 

[AV1611VET]

That's been my approach but it hasn't worked.

I can see why too.

I can't remember, but didn't you start a thread somewhere with a valid question, and when I answered it, critiqued my answer?

When I read that, I told myself you're about as honest as a three-dollar bill.

I can't understand those who appeal for help in believing, then reject someone's answer(s).

Have you ever seen a duck biting the hand of a person trying to wash the oil off of it?

 

[Hetta]

If you disagree, where do you think he will come from?

Or, as I suspect, is it easier not to form an opinion so you can criticize those who do?

Or do I have you pegged wrong?

I'll give you some free advice: stop trying to peg people.

I suspect that the antichrist will come from wherever he comes from. If I believe one thing in the Bible, it's Matthew 24:36. and while that refers to the end of the world, I believe that it applies to all events of Revelation. IDC about pre-trib, post-trib or tribbles. For all these hundreds of years, people have forecast the end, forecast the antichrist, and are even forecasting right now and giving dates that then they have to retract. It's hilarious. They take being God on themselves. I am not such.

 

[Hetta]

None of this has anything to do with the OP.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'll give you some free advice: stop trying to peg people.

I'll pass.

I suspect that the antichrist will come from wherever he comes from.

Just not Europe ... right?

If I believe one thing in the Bible, it's Matthew 24:36. and while that refers to the end of the world, I believe that it applies to all events of Revelation. IDC about pre-trib, post-trib or tribbles. For all these hundreds of years, people have forecast the end, forecast the antichrist, and are even forecasting right now and giving dates that then they have to retract. It's hilarious. They take being God on themselves. I am not such.

That's your prerogative if you don't care.

But if you disagree with those who do, then yes ... you do care.

At least enough to think they're "strange."

 

[AV1611VET]

None of this has anything to do with the OP.

Feeling uncomfortable?

 

[Hetta]

I'll pass.Just not Europe ... right? That's your prerogative if you don't care.

But if you disagree with those who do, then yes ... you do care.

At least enough to think they're "strange."

You evidently want me to care. I evidently will leave it up to God.

 

[Hetta]

Feeling uncomfortable?

You must be joking. However, it is the OP's thread. You want to debate the antichrist coming out of Europe, I suggest it would be rude to continue to do so in someone else's thread.

 

[AV1611VET]

You evidently want me to care. I evidently will leave it up to God.

That's nice.

Let me repeat myself then:

Some people ... as do I ... believe the Antichrist will come from Europe.

 

[Hetta]

That's nice.

Let me repeat myself then:

Some people ... as do I ... believe the Antichrist will come from Europe.

Awesome. Enjoy.