Lord, Lord, Didn't We. . .

[EmSw]

Why don't you receive this too, then, friend? :

“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (John 5:24).

Precious words of the Savior Himself. Here are the words of God and I believe Him.

Ezekiel 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit:

 

[EmSw]

What is that desire that hunts a man until his death, a longing that no one can fulfill except someone who has power over these things? Until a small child is satisfied, he is crying. We need God to fulfill our longing until we can put away a disappointed face from us, and no longer be angry at our mother. What is that thing we want? It is the assurance that when we step into that darkness one day, that everything will be alright. And until we get it, we will not love our mother, but hate her for leaving us like this.

Rightfully God said through John: we love Him because He loved us first.

Wow, I have never hated my mother...never!

 

[-57]

Then we have tons of contradictions in the Bible then. Especially if you were to closely examine 1 John 1:7, 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:3-6, and Proverbs 28:13 in what they say.

...

What about them? Where are the contradictions.

 

[-57]

Right, now I got it. I remember that verse now. Okay, this is Jesus talking to his disciples and how he chose them as disciples and not exclusively for eternal forever salvation (See verse 8 - John 15:8). For Judas was among the disciples that he chose and Judas clearly lost his salvation.


...

I think you have the wrong verse in mind.

 

[EmSw]

I like that verse very much

John 5
37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

v38, those who have the Father, have the Son. Those who have the Father's word in them, will believe in Christ.
v40, people are not willing, that is they will not come to Christ, unless they have the Father.

v38 speaks of those that are predestined to know God and Christ, God's word is active in their life. So when Christ is revealed to them they believe in Christ. This is due to the power of God at work within them, and not of themselves.

Too bad verse 40 doesn't say, 'But you are not ABLE to come to me...'. Then you might be on to something.

Here is the Father's word in Ezekiel; do you have it abiding in you?

Ezekiel 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit:

These words in Ezekiel speak of Jesus, according to Jesus Himself. Do you believe these words? Have you made them a part of your life? Are you WILLING to believe these words so you may have life?

 

[-57]

According to Calvinism, I guess not. That's why I receive and believe the words of Jesus.
His words take precedence over Reformed words.

Once more, are you saved yet? Your sin sets you back doctrine...would say your not.

 

[-57]

He chose them to bear fruit, just as He chooses everyone else.
Everyone who is chosen, is chosen to DO something, not be something.

I would hope the people Christ has choosen and saved bear fruit.

 

[-57]

Precious words of the Savior Himself. Here are the words of God and I believe Him.

Ezekiel 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit:

How do you cast away all of your transgressions?

 

[EmSw]

We DO because we ARE. In Christ, our identity has changed. We are called sons, and we are told that we were slaves. God has made us His sons by adopting us, and providing us with an inheritance.

"For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him."​

Since you DO because you ARE, you must have attained perfection. Congratulations. Surely the Spirit wouldn't lead you to keep sinning, and you say you are not a slave to sin anymore.

 

[EmSw]

How do you cast away all of your transgressions?

Stop doing them! It's not that hard to understand.

 

[-57]

Stop doing them! It's not that hard to understand.

so, all you gotta do is stop sinning and you're saved?

 

[EmSw]

so, all you gotta do is stop sinning and you're saved?

I hope this isn't a foreign concept to you. It was your sin which got you in a pickle.

It's all over the Bible, sin is the downfall of man; it is sin which condemns man.

Moses, the prophets, David, Peter, Paul, and even Jesus Himself tells us of the
outcome of sin. It would be wise to learn from their words.

 

[-57]

I hope this isn't a foreign concept to you. It was your sin which got you in a pickle.

It's all over the Bible, sin is the downfall of man; it is sin which condemns man.

Moses, the prophets, David, Peter, Paul, and even Jesus Himself tells us of the
outcome of sin. It would be wise to learn from their words.

Will you answer my question? What does one need to do to get saved.
It's a fair question. From what I read according to you I'm not saved. So, if you're really concerned about me and the others who post here...answer the question please....how does one obtain salvation?

 

[Thursday]

There are many who will come to Christ on the last day and present their track record. They will plead their case by offering up all that they have done as a reason why they deserve Heaven; however, the entire point of Matthew 7:21-23 is that we can't rely on what we have done, but only on what Christ has done. Christ is not saying that we need to do more. He's saying that we need to do less!

“The main thing between you and God is not so much your sins; it's your damnable good works.” - John H. Gerstner

You are twisting scripture 180 degrees to make it fit your man made dogma.

Scary.

 

[Thursday]

You are twisting scripture 180 degrees to make it fit your man made dogma.

Scary.

Matt 25
40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What about them? Where are the contradictions.

1 John 1:9 says,

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."​

The verse above is actually saying you are forgiven of sin if you confess of it.

Now, before you say it, I am aware of the illogical excuse that this is talking about "fellowship sins versus sins dealing with salvation" based on the appearances of the words "fellowship" in 1 John 1:3, 1 John 1:6, 1 John 1:7.

But nowhere do these verses (or elsewhere in the epistle) say that our sins are different in fellowship versus say sins that are not in regards to fellowship. In other words, in order for your belief here to be true, you would have to show either in John's epistle or elsewhere in Scripture that there are sins that are only in dealing with a break of fellowship (while one can still be saved) versus say sins committed in general or that do not deal with fellowship (But are sins that deal with one's salvation). To put it to you another, I would at least need a verse that shows that one can still be saved even if you were to break fellowship with God because of some kind of supposed "fellowship sin."

Also, 1 John 1:7 says,

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin."​

Here in the verse above it is saying you are actually cleansed from all sin IF.... IF.... you walk in the light as He is in the light. Three is no mention here in John's epistle that you can walk in darkness and still be saved or have your sin cleansed, too.

1 John 2:3-6 says,

3 "And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoever keeps his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: by this we know that we are in him.
6 He that says he abides in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."​

Verse 3 above here is saying we can have an assurance in knowing if we find we are keeping His Commandments.
Verse 4 above is stating here that if we say we know Him, and we keep not His Commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us.

Revelation 21:8 says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. Also, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6). So you cannot be saved without the truth. So 1 John 2:4 is a double condemnation upon anyone claiming to know God and if they are not keeping His Commandments.

Verses 5-6 says how the love of God can be perfected in our life and says if we abide in Him, we are to walk as He walked. But the Eternal Security crowd says you cannot walk like Jesus did. But verse 6 says we are supposed to walk as He did.

Proverbs 28:13 says,

"He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whosoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy."​

The Eternal Security Proponent believes their sins are automatically covered because they believe their sins are forgiven: Past, present, and future. But Proverbs 28:13 says he that covers his sins shall not prosper. While this verse is talking about a man who seeks to hide his sin physically, the same would hold true if a person comes up with a false belief that attempts to do the same thing.

Also, the second half of the verse says, whoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. This means, that if a person confesses and forsakes their sin before God, they will obtain mercy from Him.` This is the same thing that 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 1:7 says. 1 John 1:9 says we are forgiven of sin if we confess our sin and 1 John 1:7 says we forsake our sin by walking in the light as he is in the light which then cleanses us of all sin by the blood of Jesus Christ.

So we have two very clear witnesses in Scripture; One being 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 1:7, and the second one being Proverbs 28:13. Both of them say the same thing using different words. Only somebody with a belief that is outside of Scripture would attempt to change what these verses say plainly.

Side Note:

Oh, and 1 John 1:8 does not prove that a believer will always be abiding in some kind of sin, either. That is not what it is saying. 1 John 3:4 says, "sin is transgression of the Law." Breaking a Law is breaking God's Commandments. 1 John 2:4 says if a person breaks God's Commandments (i.e. if they sin) and they say they know Him, they are a liar and the truth is not in Him. So 1 John 1:8 cannot be saying you will always be breaking God's Commandments or sinning at some point in your life. Then what is 1 John 1:8 saying?

Well, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because their sins are paid for: Past, present, and future by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment.


....

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think you have the wrong verse in mind.

Not at all. John 15:16 is in context to John 15:8. Verse 8 is showing us that Jesus is talking to his disciples (i.e. the twelve) and he is not talking to all believers thru out time in regards to having some kind of eternal unbreakable salvation. Jesus chose his disciples (Even Judas), but that does not mean Judas was saved just because Jesus chose Judas as one of his disciples.


....

 

[-57]

1 John 1:9 says,

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."​

The verse above is actually saying you are forgiven of sin if you confess of it.

Now, before you say it, I am aware of the illogical excuse that this is talking about "fellowship sins versus sins dealing with salvation" based on the appearances of the words "fellowship" in 1 John 1:3, 1 John 1:6, 1 John 1:7.

But nowhere do these verses (or elsewhere in the epistle) say that our sins are different in fellowship versus say sins that are not in regards to fellowship. In other words, in order for your belief here to be true, you would have to show either in John's epistle or elsewhere in Scripture that there are sins that are only in dealing with a break of fellowship (while one can still be saved) versus say sins committed in general or that do not deal with fellowship (But are sins that deal with one's salvation). To put it to you another, I would at least need a verse that shows that one can still be saved even if you were to break fellowship with God because of some kind of supposed "fellowship sin."

Also, 1 John 1:7 says,

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin."​

Here in the verse above it is saying you are actually cleansed from all sin IF.... IF.... you walk in the light as He is in the light. Three is no mention here in John's epistle that you can walk in darkness and still be saved or have your sin cleansed, too.

1 John 2:3-6 says,

3 "And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoever keeps his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: by this we know that we are in him.
6 He that says he abides in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."​

Verse 3 above here is saying we can have an assurance in knowing if we find we are keeping His Commandments.
Verse 4 above is stating here that if we say we know Him, and we keep not His Commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us.

Revelation 21:8 says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. Also, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6). So you cannot be saved without the truth. So 1 John 2:4 is a double condemnation upon anyone claiming to know God and if they are not keeping His Commandments.

Verses 5-6 says how the love of God can be perfected in our life and says if we abide in Him, we are to walk as He walked. But the Eternal Security crowd says you cannot walk like Jesus did. But verse 6 says we are supposed to walk as He did.

Proverbs 28:13 says,

"He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whosoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy."​

The Eternal Security Proponent believes their sins are automatically covered because they believe their sins are forgiven: Past, present, and future. But Proverbs 28:13 says he that covers his sins shall not prosper. While this verse is talking about a man who seeks to hide his sin physically, the same would hold true if a person comes up with a false belief that attempts to do the same thing.

Also, the second half of the verse says, whoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. This means, that if a person confesses and forsakes their sin before God, they will obtain mercy from Him.` This is the same thing that 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 1:7 says. 1 John 1:9 says we are forgiven of sin if we confess our sin and 1 John 1:7 says we forsake our sin by walking in the light as he is in the light which then cleanses us of all sin by the blood of Jesus Christ.

So we have two very clear witnesses in Scripture; One being 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 1:7, and the second one being Proverbs 28:13. Both of them say the same thing using different words. Only somebody with a belief that is outside of Scripture would attempt to change what these verses say plainly.

Side Note:

Oh, and 1 John 1:8 does not prove that a believer will always be abiding in some kind of sin, either. That is not what it is saying. 1 John 3:4 says, "sin is transgression of the Law." Breaking a Law is breaking God's Commandments. 1 John 2:4 says if a person breaks God's Commandments (i.e. if they sin) and they say they know Him, they are a liar and the truth is not in Him. So 1 John 1:8 cannot be saying you will always be breaking God's Commandments or sinning at some point in your life. Then what is 1 John 1:8 saying?

Well, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because their sins are paid for: Past, present, and future by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment.


....

Wow, you said a lot just to admitt you won't achieve salvation. I truly feel sorry for your sects doctrine. I would imagine you miss a couple of your sins here and there and never confess them. The wages of those unconfessed sins you missed is death.....or did you find a loop hole?

I can rest in the knowledge that all of my sins, past, present and future have been imputed to Jesus Christ and Jesus' righteousness has been imputed to me as a result of Jesus' substitute atonement made through His life and His death on the cross.
Christ paid for my sins. All of them. When I do sin and ask for forgiveness it's not judgemental but rather parental.

 

[Thursday]

Wow, you said a lot just to admitt you won't achieve salvation. I truly feel sorry for your sects doctrine.

Not even Paul claimed that he knew he would be saved.

Judgment is for God, not us.

Only those who endure will be saved.

 

[-57]

Not at all. John 15:16 is in context to John 15:8. Verse 8 is showing us that Jesus is talking to his disciples (i.e. the twelve) and he is not talking to all believers thru out time in regards to having some kind of eternal unbreakable salvation. Jesus chose his disciples (Even Judas), but that does not mean Judas was saved just because Jesus chose Judas as one of his disciples.


....

Thank God you explained that to me....Jesus was talking to the disciples...not me or to all believers thru out time...scenario.

Now I don't have to listen to Jesus when He said "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another" ...because Jesus was talking to the disciples in the beginning of His little talk...and not me or all believers thru out time. Excellent point you made.