How old is the earth and the sun?

[daleksteve]

If someone will not believe in the literalness of what it says in Genesis, why would they believe in the literalness of John 3:16?

If we are supposed to be taking every word of the bible literatlly then we should be all out stoning adulters and gourging out our eyes if we sin with them.

R

 

[lesliedellow]

Here's how we know it is 6000 years old.

When God created the earth, the two first people there were Adam and Eve. After that they had a series of people, and it tells their ages and time when they died if you care to read the book of Genesis. So if you say, they were the first, then you see that it was 6000 years.

It is just a matter of adding up the numbers.

"The question of the antiquity of man is accordingly a purely scientific one, in which the theologian as such has no concern."

And who said that? Why, it was that well known liberal, by the name of Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield. Few people better known for being a champion of biblical inerrancy.

 

[daleksteve]

Here's how we know it is 6000 years old.

When God created the earth, the two first people there were Adam and Eve. After that they had a series of people, and it tells their ages and time when they died if you care to read the book of Genesis. So if you say, they were the first, then you see that it was 6000 years.

It is just a matter of adding up the numbers.

No its not. All that tells you is when Adam and Eve appeared on the sixth day, it does not tell you the age of the earth.

There were 5 days BEFORE Adam and Eve.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Here's how we know it is 6000 years old.

When God created the earth, the two first people there were Adam and Eve. After that they had a series of people, and it tells their ages and time when they died if you care to read the book of Genesis. So if you say, they were the first, then you see that it was 6000 years.

It is just a matter of adding up the numbers.

So how long was it between the time God created the Earth and he created Adam and Eve? Furthermore, how do you know that series of people was complete and accurate?

 

[brocke]

Oh thank you Mr. Scientist for shedding your invaluable light on the subject. We already know that you view that your opinion is absolute truth and that we simple minded fools are wrong. To say that Genesis was a poem is to say that you can prove this. But how can you?

Also, if God said it was 1 day, how long does that mean? If God told you that you would die in one day, how long do you think that would mean for you? If God told you that you were going to do something in one day, how long do you think that would be? I am just curious. It is a question about communication and the definition of words here that we are trying to settle.

Timdaniel

1. Your first sentence is just an attack and ad hominem argument. So I'm going to give it the attention it deserves and ignore it.
2. "To say that Genesis was a poem is to say that you can prove this. But how can you?" Well I would encourage you to learn Hebrew and Greek as the English Translation of the Old Testament comes from both the Septuagint and the Hebrew manuscripts. Then take a good Old Testament Bible survey class - read a OT survey book, plenty of them around. Meyers writes some good ones. Learn what a chiasmus is and how it works in Hebrew and Greek literature. Here is just one persons explanation of how Genesis works as ancient Hebrew poetry: http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/language_poetry.html.
3. "...if God said it was 1 day, how long does that mean? If God told you that you would die in one day, how long do you think that would mean for you?" I'm not sure why you are asking this. Since it seems by your context you are making a statement not asking a question. I would think you are perhaps making allusion to 2 Peter 3:8 " But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day." Many people have tried to use this verse to justify that the Genesis "days" are not 24 hour periods, and somehow this fits then in with scientific discovery. There are some problems with that thinking. Peter is referring to the long wait of Christians for Christs return as we read it in its context. It is meant to show that to God time is of no consequence because God is eternal and as being transcendent is outside of the restrictions of time. In Genesis the word translated into English for day is "yom" (this is the english transliteration as I can't figure out how to do Hebrew letters in this forum). "Yom" simply refers to a time period or is used when defining a sequential order. Really taking "day" (greek word hemera - which means a 24 hour day) and trying to make it equal to Hebrew "yom" is a mistake as they do not mean the same thing. So in answer to you question of how long do I think a "day" would actually be if God said I would do something in a "day"; I say, don't make statements by asking questions make your point.

 

[Timdaniel]

I believe the question was referring to scientific evidence. What scientific evidence do you have that suggests the earth is 6 ka?

Again, it depends on the interpretation. You could say it means something else. That it could be done some other way, and I could say what I think it means.

My faith has kept me out of a lot of trouble. I have evidence to suggest this is true. I believe that God was protecting me. Thus I believe that due to my faith at that time, things went better. Do I have evidence you can see? Not either way. I cannot say God was there or that God was, but I can tell you that I see evidence to support when people do not believe, how they ruin their guts with worry, and usually turn to other methods of quieting their spirits, like alcohol. I never did that. Nor do I do it now.

How you interpret the evidence is the key.

 

[Timdaniel]

So how long was it between the time God created the Earth and he created Adam and Eve? Furthermore, how do you know that series of people was complete and accurate?

It was 6 literal days. I know it was complete and accurate because it certainly seems that way. Why would they go to such great detail if it wasn't true? Come on.

 

[katerinah1947]

It is because I don't know what your post was supposed to mean.

Hi,

Why do you ask questions and anwser none. Is it so you can have plausible deniability in all things?

LOVE,

 

[Timdaniel]

Timdaniel

1. Your first sentence is just an attack and ad hominem argument. So I'm going to give it the attention it deserves and ignore it.
2. "To say that Genesis was a poem is to say that you can prove this. But how can you?" Well I would encourage you to learn Hebrew and Greek as the English Translation of the Old Testament comes from both the Septuagint and the Hebrew manuscripts. Then take a good Old Testament Bible survey class - read a OT survey book, plenty of them around. Meyers writes some good ones. Learn what a chiasmus is and how it works in Hebrew and Greek literature. Here is just one persons explanation of how Genesis works as ancient Hebrew poetry: http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/language_poetry.html.
3. "...if God said it was 1 day, how long does that mean? If God told you that you would die in one day, how long do you think that would mean for you?" I'm not sure why you are asking this. Since it seems by your context you are making a statement not asking a question. I would think you are perhaps making allusion to 2 Peter 3:8 " But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day." Many people have tried to use this verse to justify that the Genesis "days" are not 24 hour periods, and somehow this fits then in with scientific discovery. There are some problems with that thinking. Peter is referring to the long wait of Christians for Christs return as we read it in its context. It is meant to show that to God time is of no consequence because God is eternal and as being transcendent is outside of the restrictions of time. In Genesis the word translated into English for day is "yom" (this is the english transliteration as I can't figure out how to do Hebrew letters in this forum). "Yom" simply refers to a time period or is used when defining a sequential order. Really taking "day" (greek word hemera - which means a 24 hour day) and trying to make it equal to Hebrew "yom" is a mistake as they do not mean the same thing. So in answer to you question of how long do I think a "day" would actually be if God said I would do something in a "day"; I say, don't make statements by asking questions make your point.

To what you are saying about "yom", I have a different understanding. This is a quote from Ken Ham's book "The New Answers Book".

"Yom is defined the first time it is used in the Bible (Genesis 1:4-5_ in its two literal senses: the light portion of the light/dark cycle and the whole light/dark cycle. Second, yom is used with "evening" and "morning". Everywhere these two words are used in the old testament, either together or seperately and with or without yom in the context, they always mean a literal evening or morning of a literal day. Third, yom is modified with a number: one day, second day, third day, etc. which everywhere else in the Old Testament indicates literal days. Fourth, yom is deined literally in Genesis 1:14 in relation to the heavenly bodies."

 

[TLK Valentine]

It was 6 literal days.

I see. Remember this?

"When Jesus says that faith as small as a mustard seed can move mountains, what does that mean to you? Do you take it literally? Because Jesus was making a point."

I know it was complete and accurate because it certainly seems that way.

Ah, so your faith is in yourself.

Why would they go to such great detail if it wasn't true? Come on.

Ever read The Lord of the Rings? Why would they go to such great detail if it wasn't true? Come on.

And please -- you call Genesis 4 "such great detail"? Tell me: What would the narrative lose if that shaort chapter was cut out completely?

The point here is that details alone don't cut it, do they?

 

[RickG]

Again, it depends on the interpretation. You could say it means something else. That it could be done some other way, and I could say what I think it means.

Then show what scientific interpretation you have and please provide citations to the scientific literature. After all you did say the same evidence, different interpretation.

My faith has kept me out of a lot of trouble. I have evidence to suggest this is true. I believe that God was protecting me. Thus I believe that due to my faith at that time, things went better. Do I have evidence you can see? Not either way. I cannot say God was there or that God was, but I can tell you that I see evidence to support when people do not believe, how they ruin their guts with worry, and usually turn to other methods of quieting their spirits, like alcohol. I never did that. Nor do I do it now.

This being a science forum, please stick to science.

How you interpret the evidence is the key.

So, when are you going to show some scientific evidence and provide your interpretation?

 

[TLK Valentine]

To what you are saying about "yom", I have a different understanding. This is a quote from Ken Ham's book "The New Answers Book".

"Yom is defined the first time it is used in the Bible (Genesis 1:4-5_ in its two literal senses: the light portion of the light/dark cycle and the whole light/dark cycle. Second, yom is used with "evening" and "morning". Everywhere these two words are used in the old testament, either together or seperately and with or without yom in the context, they always mean a literal evening or morning of a literal day. Third, yom is modified with a number: one day, second day, third day, etc. which everywhere else in the Old Testament indicates literal days. Fourth, yom is deined literally in Genesis 1:14 in relation to the heavenly bodies."

And Ken Ham is more trustworthy than all other scientists because...?

 

[lesliedellow]

Again, it depends on the interpretation. You could say it means something else. That it could be done some other way, and I could say what I think it means.

Not really; not when there is no debate about it amongst people who know what they are talking about.

My faith has kept me out of a lot of trouble. I have evidence to suggest this is true. I believe that God was protecting me. Thus I believe that due to my faith at that time, things went better. Do I have evidence you can see? Not either way. I cannot say God was there or that God was, but I can tell you that I see evidence to support when people do not believe, how they ruin their guts with worry, and usually turn to other methods of quieting their spirits, like alcohol. I never did that. Nor do I do it now.

All of that is fine, but it has nothing to do with the age of the Earth.

 

[Timdaniel]

If we are supposed to be taking every word of the bible literatlly then we should be all out stoning adulters and gourging out our eyes if we sin with them.

R

True, but not many of us are. This does not change a belief that we should be doing those things though does it?

 

[Timdaniel]

And Ken Ham is more trustworthy than all other scientists because...?

It is not what Ken Ham is saying that makes it true. It is just reading your Bible which you refuse to do apparently. If the Bible says, one day, then how many days do you think it was? Come on man.

 

[Timdaniel]

Not really; not when there is no debate about it amongst people who know what they are talking about.




All of that is fine, but it has nothing to do with the age of the Earth.

But it does have to do with believing what the Bible says and believing that it is 100% true.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Hi,

Why do you ask questions and anwser none. Is it so you can have plausible deniability in all things?

LOVE,

In bhsmte's defense, I read the post that he was replying to and I did not understand a word of it.
Not that it went over my head. It's just that it made hardly any sense.

 

[brocke]

Ok, here is something we can do. I will play with your logic.

If something God says doesn't have to be true, then perhaps something people say cannot be true. For example, when the scientists say the earth is 4.5 billion years old, maybe they really mean it could only be 6000? What do you think?

Not really following you on that statement. Are you saying God lies? How can 4.5 billion equal 6000? BTW where do you get the 6000 from since the Bible does not give a number for how old the earth is.

At first glance your statement seems to be self-contradictory.

1. If something God says doesn't have to be true,....
   • This implies God lies.
   • God cannot lie as this would be a self-contradiction for God's word is truth.
   • Also, it would be a logical self-contradition for a rational perfect being to create falsehoods.
2. Then perhaps something people say cannot be true.

• If God declares something false then a person cannot say what is true does not logically follow.
• I don't see how the first part of your sentence logically follows to the second.

But really your statement and questions don't seem to make sense. Perhaps you might want to consider rephrasing them.​

 

[lesliedellow]

If we are supposed to be taking every word of the bible literatlly then we should be all out stoning adulters and gourging out our eyes if we sin with them.

True, but not many of us are. This does not change a belief that we should be doing those things though does it?

Nobody is stopping you gouging out your eyes.

 

[TLK Valentine]

It is not what Ken Ham is saying that makes it true.

So why quote him as if he mattered

It is just reading your Bible which you refuse to do apparently.

Wrong again.

If the Bible says, one day, then how many days do you think it was? Come on man.

So now you're saying that everything in the Bible is literal.