Time is right for US, NATO to drop Turkey

[smaneck]

What ISIS needs is for this affair to escalate into WWIII.

You couldn't be more right about that. Unless we understand ISIS as the Doomsday Cult it is, our strategies for dealing with it are not going to work. We tend to treat it as just one more radical Islamist group. It isn't. This is something totally new. However, as with any terrorist group, the only thing they need to do to win is survive.

 

[smaneck]

The Germans helped Turkey commit the Armenian Genocide. Germany and Turkey have bloodthirstiness as a common trait.

No, no hatred there.

 

[PatrickT]

Let me get this straight. You want to support Turkey so you don't have to take in any refugees yourself?
Lovely.

Pretty much whats going on right now. We have to be nice now to get the deal. Chancellor Merkel was alays a critic against turkey and Erdogan. But the issue now is so important that she even supported him in his election campaign.

She visited Turkey and allowed Erdogan to celebrate that the most powerful women on earth plays his game...

We also offer 3 billion €.

The deal is clear. We make a nice face and turkey locks up and acts as gate keeper.

Its a dirty deal but we have no alternative. The other option would be closing down our boarder and start to shot at them. That way the problem never reaches us.

 

[smaneck]

Its a dirty deal but we have no alternative. The other option would be closing down our boarder and start to shot at them. That way the problem never reaches us.

Or gee, you could be good citizens of the world and take in your fair share of refugees.

 

[PatrickT]

Or gee, you could be good citizens of the world and take in your fair share of refugees.

We took 1.5 million this year. How much did your nation take? Our nation can´t take anymore. We are at the breaking point. We have no houses left, they are put into unheated camps. There is chaos in those camps. Our social system is at the breaking point. If you don´t know reality you should simply shut up.

You want know whats going on? Anti refugee sentiments rise here so dramatic, that neo nazi party is at already 10 % and in next Bundestag. Merkels support crumbles and refugee camps get burned down. No other nation in europe took more than germany. Realisticly we could shoulder 400.000.

1.5 millions bursts evrything. We must put an end to this or EU will collapse and right wing parties will win in germany. What then? Then there wont be a deal with turkey, then refugees simply get pushed into sea. Thats better?

USA struggles to even take 20.000 and you have the nerve to say we should take "our share"? you must be kidding. How about we divide by half and send 750.000 unregistered oen to New York. Would be fair deal.

 

[smaneck]

We took 1.5 million this year. How much did your nation take? Our nation can´t take anymore.

Okay, so the issue is controlling the numbers not shutting down your borders completely. That's fair.

USA struggles to even take 20.000 and you have the nerve to say we should take "our share"?

My comments were based entirely on your statement that the Germany had made a deal with Turkey to keep them out entirely. If that is not the case, then I have no cause to criticize.

 

[PatrickT]

Okay, so the issue is controlling the numbers not shutting down your borders completely. That's fair.



My comments were based entirely on your statement that the Germany had made a deal with Turkey to keep them out entirely. If that is not the case, then I have no cause to criticize.

We have to go down to zero now. We are at an absolute limit. Either that or germany will radicalisze itself dramatical.

 

[smaneck]

We have to go down to zero now. We are at an absolute limit. Either that or germany will radicalisze itself dramatical.

Okay, if you already took in a million and a half, that is understandable. I expect the money you mentioned is going to fund refugee camps in Turkey.

 

[PatrickT]

Okay, if you already took in a million and a half, that is understandable. I expect the money you mentioned is going to fund refugee camps in Turkey.

Who knows...its not like we can check that. As i said its a dirty deal but we have no other option

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Yes, the very fact you put them side-by-side with ISIS expresses your hatred.

My hatred for the Turkish government? Of course. I never said I don't hate the Turkish government. They are allies to ISIS.

 

[smaneck]

My hatred for the Turkish government? Of course. I never said I don't hate the Turkish government. They are allies to ISIS.

Your antagonism towards Turks extends beyond the government.

 

[PatrickT]

My hatred for the Turkish government? Of course. I never said I don't hate the Turkish government. They are allies to ISIS.

with all due respect, turkey is a valuable nation in NATO and armenia simply not important enough to change that.

 

[smaneck]

with all due respect, turkey is a valuable nation in NATO and armenia simply not important enough to change that.

I wouldn't put it that way, Patrick. If the Armenian genocide were going on today I would be more outraged at Turkey than I am at ISIS. But we are talking about something that happened a hundred years ago and can't be changed. And many, many Turkish governments have come and gone since then.

There is a very good article written in Al-Jazeera a year or so ago explain why Turks are so reluctant to admit to the Armenian genocide.

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/4/what-we-all-get-wrongaboutthearmeniangenocide.html

However, if Turkey ever hopes to obtain full membership in the EU, that is going to have to change. Kicking them out of NATO is an entirely different matter. NATO was formed to stop Russian aggression and that still appears to be a problem. Besides, we need their airbase.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Is making an enemy of Turkey really the way to go here?

Radical Islam is the target...and in terms of radicalism, Turkey is considered one of the more moderate Islamic nations is it not?

...and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Turkey#Status_of_religious_freedom

In all likelihood, Turkey has the potential to produce some true reformers within the religion...is that really a bridge you want to burn?

 

[TerranceL]

We are supposed to cut off relations with a country for something they did a hundred years ago?

I didn't say that, there is no reason for Turkey to be an ally. It's like our bizarre relationship with Pakistan.

 

[smaneck]

I didn't say that, there is no reason for Turkey to be an ally. It's like our bizarre relationship with Pakistan.

Uh, you said, " it's beyond me why we have relations with them." That certainly suggests that you think we should break off relations with them. But if that is not what you meant then fine. However, you are forgetting that Incirlik Air Base is located there, without which we would have a hard time doing much of anything in the Middle East. It is the major air base from which we are launching attacks against ISIS, which hardly makes Turkey an ally of ISIS. There are, however, playing both sides against the middle.

 

[smaneck]

Is making an enemy of Turkey really the way to go here?

Radical Islam is the target...and in terms of radicalism, Turkey is considered one of the more moderate Islamic nations is it not?

Less so now than it used to be. The current Prime Minister is an Islamist. In the past when the Turks elected a government that was felt to be too far to the right religiously, the military which remained Kemalist would step in and take over. The current Prime Minister has effectively neutralized the military. However, if he goes to far I think the Kemalists can still do him in. That is unless we do something stupid like intervene.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I don't consider Assad Syria.

Politically, he is Syria. He is the lawfully elected President and he is the commander in chief of their armed forces and he represents the majority of the people. It's the same as Erdogan is to Turkey.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

with all due respect, turkey is a valuable nation in NATO and armenia simply not important enough to change that.

Well, how you define a "valuable nation" really won't matter to me. I have Christian morality/values and your worldview is definitely against God.

As for Armenia - why are you bringing up Armenia? What does Armenia have to do with this? Or is it just a shot you wanted to take at me because I'm Armenian?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

No, no hatred there.

No, none. Just stating a fact which is evident based on their histories. The difference is that Germany is attempting to move past their problem but Turkey embraces theirs today as zealously as they did then and they wrap it up in nationalism.