Discussion Frustrated with Church As We Know It?

[talitha]

Any other SF/C people who feel frustrated with Church As We Know It? Does it feel like the rest of the week is just treading water until the time for the Church Service comes? Does "church" feel like a show? We talk about the congregation participating more in worship, and we talk about reaching out beyond the four walls, so to speak.... How are you doing that? Being Spirit-filled should energize us to advance the Kingdom of God beyond the four walls. Is that happening for you? If so, maybe a testimony. If you are just frustrated, let's talk. I really would like to see our sub-forum become a great place to talk about these things!!

 

[musicalpilgrim]

I have just been at a new church for around a couple of months...it is a very lively place and there are a lot of spirit filled people. The messages are thought provoking, and I do a lot of studying at home.
I will come back on this one, I will have to think about it. I would like to join in the groups at church and trusting that my health will improve so I can go to the meetings which appear to be more for the Spirit filled Christians.
Yes, I would like to advance the kingdom of God beyond the four walls. Lots of prayer needed... thank you talitha for a thought provoking thread...

 

[talitha]

musicalpilgrim, thanks for responding.....
I like your username. It reminds me a bit of my search for a way to use my music that does not contradict my perspective about church. I dislike churchtainment, you know what I mean, but my voice / my gift... is very suited to that kind of thing. I love atmospheric kind of worship, like soaking worship.... I love spontaneous, organic worship that is not all pre-written/composed/planned. But how do we get people to really truly enter in during times of that kind of worship? Questions I spend a lot of time pondering....... Do you have thoughts?

 

[musicalpilgrim]

Hi talitha, I spent five wonderful years, a real pilgrimage on the 'sacred music pathway' with such a wonderful opportunity to lead the music at a church. I was so blessed, I had to leave eventually with lung problems. I praise God for the experience.
'I heard someone say once, God doesn't call us because we're qualified for the job, He calls us because we're unable to do the job without His help and ability. This ensures God gets all the glory because we know that wasn't us doing the works, it was clearly God'.
I will pray for opportunities for you to worship with song...I haven't a voice with the lung trouble, but I love to hear worshipful singing and join in as best I can, now in the congregation (a whisper usually).
Have a look in the Bible at David's ministry of song, thinking of how he sang and quietened Saul's troublesome spirit.

Dear Father, I pray for a ministry of song in worship for talitha, in Jesus name, Amen

 

[Zugzwang]

Church is a JOKE in america. sf/c churches like to think they have a handle on holiness b/c of tongues, etc. YET we can't even be bothered by 1st. Cor 14. (You can thank the Constatine system for that) Why does one man get to decide what we should/shouldn't know? I've learned from the HG in two years from home bible studies where EVERYONE gets a chance to speak.bring up points then in 20 years of church.

Church as a whole is even more laughable, in regards to apologetics. I read a study where 3/4ths of young adults lose their faith in one or another when they goto college, b/c they can't defend God's actions in the OT in regards to apparent genocide. pfft, really? (btw, the answer is nephilim tribes in Canaan for those wanting to know)

Lastly, unless you've been there for a number of years, if you stop showing up, expect a phone call or a post-card at BEST. I recall Jesus leaving the 99 to go after the ONE. Good luck seeing that taught/practiced in today's churches to any serious degree.

 

[talitha]

Wow, sounds like you have a lot of anger. But I can kind of understand it. I am frustrated enough with churches here in Honduras to not really want to go to them. More about that in a bit. First let me respond to what you said, since we are associated with churches in the USA.

What is the HG? do you mean home group? Do you go to a housechurch? I've been thinking of starting one..

I agree, churches should prepare young people to defend their faith. Our English-speaking church here in Honduras is doing that with their youth group.

On the last part... Here in Honduras churches chase after people and pressure them to come back, but I don't like it. It's really up to you if you want to go to my church or not. I don't think I should pressure you. What do you want them to do?

That's actually part of the reason I'm frustrated with churches here. I have friends who are very active in para-church ministries, feeding the poor, working with children and families, etc., and they would like to go to church to have fellowship, worship God, and get some teaching, but they are not interested in volunteering at the church because, like I said, they are actively volunteering in other ways. But every church they go to chases after them and wants them to teach Sunday school or something. This is not just a couple of friends, this is pretty much everyone. Churches are not taking responsibility to feed the poor and do what these people are doing, but they want to over-exploit the people who do. Also, the shepherding thing is wayy overboard. At one point, Nathan and I stepped in as interim pastors at a small church. The previous pastor's wife told us that the people expected us to remind them every week before service and check up on them if they didn't go or didn't give. We told her that we expected adults to be adults. Within a few months the worship pastor was ready to become the pastor, and we handed the reins over. He just needed the opportunity. Once I tried to organize a prayer burn during a multi-church outreach. I called upon friends whose churches weren't involved in the outreach, but I couldn't get a group together. They had to ask permission from their pastors or youth pastors..... TO PRAY!!! FOR PEOPLE TO GET SAVED!!!! and since their pastors didn't know me or know about this event, they didn't release their people to go. I ended up interceding alone for most of the time.

 

[Zugzwang]

Wow, sounds like you have a lot of anger. But I can kind of understand it. I am frustrated enough with churches here in Honduras to not really want to go to them. More about that in a bit. First let me respond to what you said, since we are associated with churches in the USA.

What is the HG? do you mean home group? Do you go to a housechurch? I've been thinking of starting one..

I agree, churches should prepare young people to defend their faith. Our English-speaking church here in Honduras is doing that with their youth group.

On the last part... Here in Honduras churches chase after people and pressure them to come back, but I don't like it. It's really up to you if you want to go to my church or not. I don't think I should pressure you. What do you want them to do?

That's actually part of the reason I'm frustrated with churches here. I have friends who are very active in para-church ministries, feeding the poor, working with children and families, etc., and they would like to go to church to have fellowship, worship God, and get some teaching, but they are not interested in volunteering at the church because, like I said, they are actively volunteering in other ways. But every church they go to chases after them and wants them to teach Sunday school or something. This is not just a couple of friends, this is pretty much everyone. Churches are not taking responsibility to feed the poor and do what these people are doing, but they want to over-exploit the people who do. Also, the shepherding thing is wayy overboard. At one point, Nathan and I stepped in as interim pastors at a small church. The previous pastor's wife told us that the people expected us to remind them every week before service and check up on them if they didn't go or didn't give. We told her that we expected adults to be adults. Within a few months the worship pastor was ready to become the pastor, and we handed the reins over. He just needed the opportunity. Once I tried to organize a prayer burn during a multi-church outreach. I called upon friends whose churches weren't involved in the outreach, but I couldn't get a group together. They had to ask permission from their pastors or youth pastors..... TO PRAY!!! FOR PEOPLE TO GET SAVED!!!! and since their pastors didn't know me or know about this event, they didn't release their people to go. I ended up interceding alone for most of the time.

HG=Holy Ghost

And yes, I am angry. I've literally lost half my family b/c I am LOST b/c I don't attend a pentecostal church of any kind. As if everyone before the Azusa st. outpouring is doomed to hell b/c they weren't lucky enough to be born after 1906.


And I'm not talking about chasing anyone down, I'm talking about showing concern when ppl stop coming. In Matt, it says you have odds against your brother, leave your gift at the altar... same thing in Luke, but from the other side. The onus is on RECONCILIATION, yet it is never really practiced, taught, or sought after, not from what I've seen.

And yes, I believe homegroups are ESSENTIAL. There are too many "agenda" driven leaders that are out there. You wanna have an agenda, make it Jesus' agenda, everything else is chaff.

 

[talitha]

Relax, bro. I'm on your side. Really.

Sorry about not understanding HG. I often right HS and expect everyone to understand. Guess I shouldn't.

I doubt your family thinks your lost. I myself would not be able to attend a church that didn't at least give lip service to the manifestations of the Holy Spirit and wanting God's presence to be with us. To me that is the whole point of gathering with other believers - Christ in the midst..... drinking from the water of His presence....

I agree that reconciliation is crucial and often overlooked. A Honduran pastor-friend of ours was caught in sin, and we sought reconciliation and restoration for him, but his overseers from the USA dropped him like a hot potato. No wonder people here tend to see "religion" as harsh. This pastor was so humiliated he physically hid, even from us (hubby and me).

May God bless and keep and keep you.

 

[Zugzwang]

Relax, bro. I'm on your side. Really.

Sorry about not understanding HG. I often right HS and expect everyone to understand. Guess I shouldn't.

I doubt your family thinks your lost. I myself would not be able to attend a church that didn't at least give lip service to the manifestations of the Holy Spirit and wanting God's presence to be with us. To me that is the whole point of gathering with other believers - Christ in the midst..... drinking from the water of His presence....

I agree that reconciliation is crucial and often overlooked. A Honduran pastor-friend of ours was caught in sin, and we sought reconciliation and restoration for him, but his overseers from the USA dropped him like a hot potato. No wonder people here tend to see "religion" as harsh. This pastor was so humiliated he physically hid, even from us (hubby and me).

May God bless and keep and keep you.

Why would I think you're not on my side?

As for me being "lost", my uncle & grandma have basically said as much. I've never denied the HS, in fact I still speak in tongues. Its the religious spirit & haughtiness that has always bothered me.

 

[musicalpilgrim]

I have had an evening praising the Lord at church here in the UK...not a big church but full of loving people; I am sure there are people in your area who have the love of Christ in their hearts.

 

[Svt4Him]

I'm always amazed at how some talk about the Bride of Christ...in His presence. I don't know if I'd diss the queen of England in front of her husband, and she doesn't even have the power to do anything to me...just a thought.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Ok. This is going to sound a little harsh, but is not meant to but only to get you to think.

Why are you attending the church you are attending if it does not follow your morals and values in relation to Christ?

So many people complain, yet are so passive when it comes to finding a good church or even when searching for a church they take the matter lightly. If your church is not good, please go find a good one. Search and search and search.

 

[Another Lazarus]

The kingdom of God is not found in a building called church but in the children of God.

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

 

[rapturefish]

People aren't passive. They are discouraged, hurt and betrayed and they either leave, start over, settle or give up. They do not lack commitment; they were wounded in being committed. Serious lack of shepherd heart in the church for these people. Weak community. Lack of the love of God and unity in the Spirit characterise the church. We must be the change that is lacking. It is hard on one's own.

 

[talitha]

Typed last night before electricity went down.....

Why are you attending the church you are attending if it does not follow your morals and values in relation to Christ?

I am not sure whether this is addressed to me or not, but I will try to respond. The churches I attend regularly pretty much fit my morals. As for values, I live in Honduras, and the church culture here is - hmm - different. There is definitely not the variety that there is in the USA. That is good in one sense - we learn to overlook minor issues as we fellowship and pray together, etc. - but bad in another sense - we cannot simply find a church that suits us more closely - it's likely that one will not be available. That may seem strange in a country that has so many churches that almost everyone has one within moderate walking distance, but the fact is that most of these churches are very similar to each other.

So many people complain, yet are so passive when it comes to finding a good church or even when searching for a church they take the matter lightly. If your church is not good, please go find a good one. Search and search and search.

This is very good advice in many areas of the United States, especially in metropolitan areas.

 

[Walt74]

I'm not sure if my thoughts will be relevant here, but the last time I went to church (over a year ago), the pastor told me the church cost about 1.5M after I mentioned how nice it was. There were big screen T.V.s, a massive sound system, men wore very nice suits with ties, women wore elegant dresses and had very ornate and expensive jewelry... Anyway, the message that day was about the feeding of the five thousand which led into giving and tithes. Apparently, they were trying to raise monies to buy land right across the street to build a new church at a cost of over 2.5M. My jaw dropped. Keep in mind, I've been to many churches and this is what they're becoming. It's a stage show. On top of that, the pastors don't feed you "meat". They are so caught up in a "pre-trib rapture" (which I don't believe btw) that they don't teach Revelation at all, and at this time in our history, they should be.

 

[Svt4Him]

Proverbs 30:10 is what I was reading today. How apropos.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I personally think that looking at a churches website is very revealing. if their statement of faith and their beliefs are really brief, to me that is a quick peek that they are trying to meet everyone's needs. If they detail their beliefs outright, I tend to see that as they have strong biblical beliefs and I like that because I take the Word of God very seriously. I think you can also tell how congregation centered they are and welcoming. If they have a gospel message, that to me is important because the Great Commission is to preach the gospel. If they have recorded messages I can listen to one or two of them to see what the service is like. I think there is a definate 'vibe' to a church's website and I'll really analyze it before visiting. Also, if there like 'come visit and see how great we are' I'm like they just want to get people in the door, whereas they are really taking a change and sticking up for what they believe if they outline their beliefs strongly, knowing that they will turn some people off but are that committed, I like that.

So, I am very big into reseaching before you ever go to the church and finding a great church most likely before you ever step foot in it, but again I am from the U.S. that has a lot of churches, although I travel almost 35 minutes to get to my church so it was well researched before I ever went.

I'd like to know how other people do it, though.

 

[Zugzwang]

I'm always amazed at how some talk about the Bride of Christ...in His presence. I don't know if I'd diss the queen of England in front of her husband, and she doesn't even have the power to do anything to me...just a thought.

Which is why God told Hosea to marry a prostitute, huh?

Denial aint just a river in Egypt.

 

[Svt4Him]

Which is why God told Hosea to marry a prostitute, huh?

Denial aint just a river in Egypt.

Hey, great point. Ya, I'm in denial, curse Jesus' bride away! And hey, that proverbs verse was for others, not you. Let me live in denial, although I'm not really sure what I've denied, but sometimes facts don't matter.