Once Saved Always Saved: Fact or Fiction?

[JLB777]

Good question - I'd like someone to take this one and run with it!

Salvation will be realized or not at the end of the age, when we hear these words:

‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34

Those that will not inherit the kingdom will hear these words:

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:41

Those that do not inherit the kingdom of God will be cast into the everlasting fires.


JLB

 

[gigman7]

Salvation will be realized or not at the end of the age, when we hear these words:

‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34

JLB

Not true. I realized salvation when I was saved.

 

[JLB777]

Rom 11:29 says we cannot lose our salvation.

Completely False!

Here is what Romans 11:29 says.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Romans 11:29

The context of what Paul is teaching here is the calling to those branches which were "broken off" from the Covenant Relationship, because of unbelief, still continue to be called to Salvation.


JLB

 

[gigman7]

Completely False!

Here is what Romans 11:29 says.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Romans 11:29

The context of what Paul is teaching here is the calling to those branches which were "broken off" from the Covenant Relationship, because of unbelief, still continue to be called to Salvation.


JLB

Rom 11:29
29 For God’s gifts and his call can never be withdrawn.
New Living Translation (NLT)

 

[JLB777]

Not true. I realized salvation when I was saved.

You haven't realized Salvation because you only have the substance of the salvation you are hoping for...

Now, you have salvation "by faith", which is the hope of salvation.

Faith is the substance of things HOPED FOR... the evidence of things NOT SEEN.

If you stop having faith, then you no longer have the substance of the salvation you are HOPING FOR.

That's why we are warned not to play with sin, so that we become hardened unto unbelief, and depart from God.
Hebrews 3:12-14

JLB

 

[gigman7]

You haven't realized Salvation because you only have the substance of the salvation you are hoping for...

Now, you have salvation "by faith", which is the hope of salvation.

Faith is the substance of things HOPED FOR... the evidence of things NOT SEEN.

If you stop having faith, then you no longer have the substance of the salvation you are HOPING FOR.

That's why we are warned not to play with sin, so that we become hardened unto unbelief, and depart from God.
Hebrews 3:12-14

JLB

Again, not true. When you experience salvation, you know you have salvation.

 

[gordonhooker]

Interesting poem, but salvation only comes while one is in the body (physical body) and only by faith. Satan can't have faith because he has seen God and rebelled and of course, no physical body for Satan, in which to receive Christ and become an overcomer while in the flesh.

Heb_10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

I don't think most people understand why Christ had to come in a body and destroy the works of the Devil while in the flesh and why we must receive Christ while in the Body.

This life is the only life in which you must be saved, after this life, the judgment.

No such thing as universal reconciliation.

Why is that when someone posts an observation or an opinion on this forum - that someone has to take upon themselves to want to argue about it?

My post was simply my observation of a poem that attempts to show the depth of love and mercy of God, according to the author of the poem. Whether is a general view or beliefs of Christians in general is irrelevant.

 

[outsidethecamp]

Please explain what it means "without Jesus we can do nothing". What is it we can't do? Specifically.

We cannot produce fruit.

 

[outsidethecamp]

Why is that when someone posts an observation or an opinion on this forum - that someone has to take upon themselves to want to argue about it?

My post was simply my observation of a poem that attempts to show the depth of love and mercy of God, according to the author of the poem. Whether is a general view or beliefs of Christians in general is irrelevant.

My point was more about your comment (not the poem) about Satan being saved. Don't take it personally. God does not love Satan.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

OSAS only appears to be obvious in the Scriptures because Christians are taught to proof text rather than study the scriptures. Christians are presented with doctrines and then a list of sentences that are supposed to prove said doctrine. That's called eisegesis. Think about it, when you study American history do you choose to believe something and then root through history books to find sentences that prove what you believe? Of course not. Yet that is exactly what many do with the Bible. There is not a single passage of Scripture that say salvation can't be lost. The doctrine is simply fabricated on a bunch of inferences.

This doctrine didn't even come into the church until the Reformation. For 1400 years the doctrine was rejected by the Church and yes it has been around that long. It was first presented to the church in the form of Gnosticism which was flatly rejected as heresy. So, the first Christians to be presented with this doctrine rejected it and labeled those who presented it as heretics. Given that history and the fact that the church rejected it for 1400 years and still does, (it's a protestant doctrine) I find it incredibly hard to believe that this is a Bilabial doctrine.

If it were simply 'proof texts' which upheld OSAS than Luther and Calvin wouldn't have been able to make such elaborate theologies of the belief. They were extremely well versed in the Scriptures, in rank with any Catholic bishop.

OSAS is between the lines of Scripture, and laced in it's essence- they held, simply, that God does not make mistakes. If one goes in and out of salvation, than God is errant in His salvific merits to men.

Calvinists have have outright proclaimed that TULIP is the actual gospel of Christianity altogether, and it's not hard to see why- it's extremely well thought theology. They didn't receive such a grand notion through proof texting.

 

[fatherjimparker]

The question was:

Can a "saved" person continually indulge in any and all those
sins and remain saved?

The only appropriate answers are a "yes" or a "no."

And you "yes" or "no" answer is:

Only until God disciplines him so severely that he either stops, or God takes him home.
I didn't ask another question. Please quit trying to second guess me.

So you avoided answering the question with a "yes" or a "no."

If I understand you, you are saying that a person can intentionally and continually participate in the most heinous sins imaginable and, as long as he was "saved" at some earlier time, when he dies he goes straight to heaven.

Following that puerile illogic, we can expect someone who was a devout Christian in his youth, but who later "fell away", to be ushered directly into heaven when he died. That would include Adolf Hitler.

Brilliant, exegesis.

 

[JLB777]

Rom 11:29
29 For God’s gifts and his call can never be withdrawn.
New Living Translation (NLT)

Still no phrase "eternal life" in Romans 11:29


JLB

 

[AVBunyan]

Salvation will be realized or not at the end of the age, when we hear these words:
‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34
Those that will not inherit the kingdom will hear these words: Those that do not inherit the kingdom of God will be cast into the everlasting fires. JLB

The kingdom here is the kingdom promised to Israel, a literal piece of land prepared for Israel to rule and minister as priests from. I am not trying to get into a physical kingdom on earth but into the body of Christ. By the way, I am already there in Christ right now, in heaven - got there by believing I Cor. 15:1-5.

 

[gigman7]

Still no phrase "eternal life" in Romans 11:29

JLB

So, salvation is not a gift of God??

 

[Lucky_Skunk]

Still no phrase "eternal life" in Romans 11:29


JLB

HOwever, from earlier this week;

I like how in John 10:28, Jesus said "I give them eternal life and they shall never perish..".

Notice how Jesus doesn't go on to say "except if....unless....etc."

If we could lose our salvation, don't you think our lord would have put a ginormous disclaimer with that statement?

 

[Lucky_Skunk]

The question was:

Can a "saved" person continually indulge in any and all those
sins and remain saved?

The only appropriate answers are a "yes" or a "no."

And you "yes" or "no" answer is:



So you avoided answering the question with a "yes" or a "no."

If I understand you, you are saying that a person can intentionally and continually participate in the most heinous sins imaginable and, as long as he was "saved" at some earlier time, when he dies he goes straight to heaven.

Following that puerile illogic, we can expect someone who was a devout Christian in his youth, but who later "fell away", to be ushered directly into heaven when he died. That would include Adolf Hitler.

Brilliant, exegesis.

Yes, it would. It's hard to imagine but God's grace is even sufficient for crazed mass murderer like Adolf Hitler.

Once saved, we become children of God, and he disciplines us as his children. Most Christians, including myself, recognize almost immediately when we are being disciplined, which is usually the results of some sin in out lives. We miss the blessings that he has in store for us. I know Christians who have made a profession of faith, but who have returned to a life of sin. Everyone single one of them live a disappointing (at best) life.

Let me ask you this? How do you know you still have YOUR salvation? Have you done enough to retain it? If you believe you can lose your salvation, how do you know if you are truly measuring up? Have you sacrificed enough? Where is the line?

What about someone who hasn't directly professed "I'm not following Jesus anymore.", someone who has just become in active in their faith? They may come to church every few weeks, say a blessing over the dinner table, but not much more than that. Again, if they can lose their salvation, where is the spiritual yardstick they need to consult?

 

[MikeEnders]

This assumes your definition of "believe" is correct.

No sigh.....it assumes that Jesus idea is correct when he says

"27"Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.28"For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?…"
Luke 14:27

Now who should we believe? a forum poster on the internet or the one you are supposed to believe is Lord? run like the wind some more but the verse will still be there and its states clearly there is not only a commitment involved but that you should count the cost of that commitment (your claim its not related to salvation will shortly be debunked).

This is why we have so many cults - because people like yourself twist and distort grace until here you are arguing that a commitment is not involved in coming to Christ only some soft baked all wet idea you have in your head about belief and grace. You understand neither

The Bible is very clear about the warnings of severe divine discipline for those of God's children who rebel. I'd suggest someone else's head that is stuck deep in the sand.

Oh yes its so severe they get to live forever and ever with Christ even though they made no real commitment to him, sin like the devil and never repent. How do you put your trust in someone and not obey them? silliness squared and unbiblical

This isn't about getting saved. It's about following Christ AS a believer who is already saved. And yeah, it does count a lot to be a true follower of Christ.

Why don't you actually read the Gospels before you make up more junk? The context is the salvation of your soul

Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.26"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?…e"
Mark 16

READ THE BIBLE and stop spreading More heretical teaching and nonsense. You can be saved now without following Christ eh?. Do you ever stop with the nonsense?

This is just more nonsense and is an emotional smokescreen for pushing a false doctrine. Since ALL people HAVE a sinful nature, no one needs a "license" to sin. How silly. We're BORN sinners. No license needed.

Wow easy on the ignorance. If you don't know what a phrase means look it up or ask a friend. license and permission are not even the same thing

We could go back and forth more but its obvious you don't even know what grace is ....you just pervert the meaning. Its like those that say you don't even need to believe in Christ because they say that would be a "work". Silly position but yours is not much better. When a person sees Christ and falls in LOVE with his saviour that's not a work. Thats part of his response that brings salvation. Love comes with commitments to the one loved. You can beg forever that the heart that receives Christ in a commitment of love is doing a "work" but it will be forever a twisting of God's word and absurd.

therefore your claim that needing real commitment to Christ (which is what believing IN someone always means) in order to be saved is a work and a violation of grace can be dismissed as nonsense and thrown in the garbage with all the other heretical teaching like it.[/QUOTE]

 

[LoveofTruth]

I sid this:
"Since the context of ch 1 is about FELLOWSHIP with the Father and the Son, it should be obvious that believers confess their sins to maintain fellowship. Jesus made the same point in John 13 when He was washing the disciples' feet. When He got to Peter, Pete said "no way". Then Jesus said, "if I don't do this for you, you can have no part with Me". That was about fellowship, not relationship."

Thank you for supporting my post.

lol, I did not support your post by that. Participation with shows our walking in and living in the spirit in Christ. If we are not in this participation we are in darkness not light. This partisipation with Christ only comes through being in the Light. And to be in the Light is salvation. It is called the light of life/

That's correct. It's not about relationship; it's about fellowship, or as you've said: participation with, communion, intercourse. These are words of fellowship, not relationship.

no to be in fellowship with Jesus Christ is to be in the light of life, and if we walk in the light as he is in the light we have fellowship and the BLOOD of Jesus Christ cleanesth us from all sin. This participation in the Light is salvation and only when we are in this light does the blood of Jesus Christ cleanse us from all sin. If we are not in this fellowship in the Light of life in Christ the blood of Jesus Christ does not cleanse us from all sin, and so we have no salvation in Christ then.

I said

But if we ( believers) walk in darkness and say we are in the light, we lie and do not the truth. If we ( believers) do not the truth, then we are not in the truth and Jesus is the truth as he said.

and you said,
And that means no fellowship.

No to not be in the light is not to be in salvation. The lost are said to be in darkness and in Christ is no darkness at all. IN CHRIST is salvation. So if a person says they are in the light then walk in darkness ( of unbelief and sin) they are not saved or in Christ. We read about the light and the saving aspect of it here,

"3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (2 Cor 4:3-6)

Proverbs 13:9
The light of the righteous rejoiceth: but the lamp of the wicked shall be put out.

Jesus is the true Light and he is the Light of the world. If a man is in His light they are saved. If not they walk in darkness and not in the truth. Jesus is the truth, So when John says, "

Again, correct. And those believers who aren't walking in the light (fellowship) are in darkness (stupidity, ignorance, etc)

No absolutely wrong, in Christ is no darkness at all, and if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his Romans 8. So if a person is in darkness , who were once in the light they are lost and need to repent. They are not in the truth or do the truth. And this is why men are condemned when they hate the light and walk in darkness, only those who do truth come to the light, the evil men do evil and are not in the truth

"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil....For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved...
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light,
" (John 3:19,20,21)

"I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness." John 12:46

So men are condemned when they hate the light, not when they were predestined to be damned before birth. As Jesus clearly says.

"But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him." John 11:10

"For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:" Ephesians 5:8

So no believer is in darkness or else they are not a believer. They dont just lose fellowship and still remain in Christ , no they are not in Christ light period. For In Christ light there is no darkness at all.

"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5

"He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now." 1 John 2:9

here we see that if we are not in the light but in darkness we are not saved also. To have no light in you is in darkness

OK, so your view completely disagrees with Scripture, because the free gift of eternal life is irrevocable, as has been repeatedly been shown in this thread.

No I showed you eternal life is Jesus Christ 1 John 1 and he is the life and if any man believer or not murders another for example they do no have eternal life abiding in them. 1 John 3:15. Notice where eternal life is or is not. It is either in them or not in them. You misunderstand who eternal life is.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Good question - I'd like someone to take this one and run with it!

Peter confessed Jesus as the Christ the Son of God and by saying that he had salvation and was born again ( according to 1 John 4:15 and 1 John 5:1) and then he sinned and denied Jesus with a curse, and had to be converted again.

Paul tells the Galatians who once received the Spirit by the hearing of faith that they are fallen from grace and he stands in doubt of them, ( which doesnt sound like he gave them an eternal security doctrine) and he said "of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you. To have Christ formed in us is salvation again.

David was saved and sinned and the sin of murder even, and 1 John 3:15 says that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. Then David repented and said "restore unto me the joy of thy salvation, he even asked God to create in him a clean heart . This creating s the new creation in Christ.

 

[outsidethecamp]

The question was:

Can a "saved" person continually indulge in any and all those
sins and remain saved?

The only appropriate answers are a "yes" or a "no."

And you "yes" or "no" answer is:



So you avoided answering the question with a "yes" or a "no."

If I understand you, you are saying that a person can intentionally and continually participate in the most heinous sins imaginable and, as long as he was "saved" at some earlier time, when he dies he goes straight to heaven.

Following that puerile illogic, we can expect someone who was a devout Christian in his youth, but who later "fell away", to be ushered directly into heaven when he died. That would include Adolf Hitler.

Brilliant, exegesis.

Jim, answer is NO.