Can you lose your salvation?

[FreeGrace2]

Actually, it's pretty easy to prove your view wrong.

First I will lay out what should happen to a believer when he sets out to follow Christ, towards salvation, fulfilment, becoming what those made in God's image were meant to be.

Next I will provide the Scripture that supports this process.

Third I will provide the Scripture that shows what are the evidences are, of having eternal life.

First

The believer must first confess that the world, it's desires and it's ways are futile, with no expectation of lasting results, eternal treasures. Golly, this is so obvious, yet men still strive to gain something which they cannot keep. Maybe it's how they find it bearable to pass the time from birth to death. In the absence of a better way of understanding the meaning of life, they settle for a stop gap solution. It's like the cancer patient who is stuffed to the eyeballs with morphine. He is treating the symptom, rather than the cause. It makes the disease tolerable. He has no cure.

Uh, where is the Scripture that was promised that supports your claims??

Escaping from the world and it's outlook isn't enough. The believer must escape from himself and his OWN outlook, even from care for life, just like Joshua and Caleb. Whilst the rest of Israel ran around trying to preserve their pointless lives, J & C decided that they and their families would follow the Lord, repent from serving the goals and ways of the world and self, and turn to serving the goals and ways of God.

This is repentance and baptism, confession of error in serving idols and change of mind by oath taking to serve God.

I'm still waiting for any verse that supports this so-called "process".

In the stage of calling out, separation from the world, in the ecclesia, the believers are exposed to God's goals and God's ways, drinking from the Rock, eating of the flesh of the Passover lamb as they passed from the old life to the new life. God's goal is that the believers should be in union with Him, restore the union Adam had with God, so that they can be a blessing to the world, by cleansing the damage caused by sin and by completing creation. God did His part and rested, Adam disturbed his part of the plan, his descendants set it back further. Now believers must make up the loss caused by Adam's descendants as well as complete Adam's part of the plan. This is living the eternal plan of God, this is eternal life.

"Uh, "make up the loss". Really?? Where in the world does all this come from, since obviously NOT from the Bible.

In order to access this eternal life, someone must create a legacy to be passed on, an inheritance to come into. God gave Israel the mandate to create that legacy, but she failed. Where the first son failed, the second son, the Israel of God, succeeded. He obtained rest for believers, he obtained the possibility of union with God. He cleansed the promised land, humanity, made it the new humanity, by nailing the old humanity to the cross. God rewarded Him by raising Him from the dead, into the new humanity, He being the first beneficiary, inheritor.

The first 7 words of this paragraph demonstrate the total failure of understanding anything in the Bible. No one "accesses eternal life". One may access the internet, or access their banking account, etc. But not eternal life. It is a GIFT from God. No one can access it. It is given freely as a GIFT from God to those who believe in His Son, something your view seems to be totally uninformed about.

Confession leads to sanctification.

This is really unbelievable. And completely unbiblical. The TRUTH is that confession leads to forgiveness, per 1 John 1:9. Second, sanctification is the process of growing up spiritually, which doesn't come from confession, but rather learning Biblical truths, called 'doctrines', of which your view is completely lacking.

As we admit that the habits in our lives are wrong, as compared to the habits that God desires us to have, the blood of His Son Jesus cleanses us from those habits.

So this is the "process" of salvation. Paul would call this "another gospel", and one that does NOT SAVE.

This then is eternal life, to be united with God, and Jesus Christ, the One He sent to earth.

And your view sure doesn't lead one to eternal life. Rather, to the second death, as noted in Revelation.

 

[fatherjimparker]

<< Can you lose your Salvation? Please provide scripture to prove your position. God bless you >>

Yes you can.

JN 10:22 At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem; 23 it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon. 24 The Jews therefore gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." 25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these bear witness of Me. 26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand.29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

From this passage and others some have concluded that it is impossible to lose one’s salvation. Is that an accurate understanding of what is taught by scripture?

What Jesus specifically said was that no one would be able to take one of his sheep out of either His hand or the Father’s hand. That means that no outside agency could overpower the might of God with which He holds His sheep secure.

That is not to say, however, that one of the sheep, by an act of his own free will, could end his relationship with God and return to his previous manner of living outside the will and fellowship of God.

We can see that this possibility described in both the Old and New Testaments.

EZE 18:24 "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.”

The term “righteous man” is essentially equivalent to our modern word “saved.” Jesus uses it to describe the blessed estate of those who will inherit the kingdom at the last judgment.

MT 25: 46 "And these (the wicked or “unsaved”) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous (“saved”) into eternal life."

The prophet Ezekiel very clearly says that if a righteous (saved) person goes back to practicing detestable things then his “salvation” (righteousness) will not be remembered and he will die. (Certainly we may understand a death of the soul by this statement as it doesn’t take a Holy Spirit inspired prophet to know that anyone would die physically.)

The same situation of a person who was saved but returns to his former manner of life is spoken of in Hebrews 6:4-6

HEB 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, (photisthentas) who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

In verse 4, the writer of Hebrews describes a “saved” person by describing him as having “once been enlightened.” That is a term used by the early church to describe a person who hade been baptized into the church. Thayer’s explains “photisthentas” as “to enlighten spiritually, imbue with saving knowledge.”

What is the “heavenly gift” which such a person could have tasted? This could refer to the Eucharist for certainly the bread and wine which is the Body and Blood of Christ are something that is tasted. Only those who were baptized members of the church could partake of the Eucharist. It could also refer to the experience of the gifting of the Holy Spirit. In either case, the words are used to describe or a “saved” person.

And the words “who have shared in the Holy Spirit” can only describe someone who has been born again of the Spirit. No one “shares” in the Holy Spirit who is not regenerated.

Peter also tells us that a “saved” person may turn from that salvation and return to his former life of sin and spiritual death.

2 PE 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our lord and savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

Verse 20 describes the person as “saved” because the person had “escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our lord and savior Jesus Christ.” The only way you can escape the corruption of this world (which is the Adamic curse of death and corruption ) is to be born again; ie: to be saved.

The only way to be entangled again in it is to loose the salvation you had.

Jesus also taught his disciples, on the night of He was betrayed as follows:

JN 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.

In verse 2 Jesus referred to branches “in me.” The words “in Christ” are consistently used in the NT to describe someone who is saved. Here Jesus makes it clear that if you are saved then you are to produce .fruit. Failure to produce fruit will result in your being cut off from Jesus, the “vine.” The one who cuts off the unfruitful branch is God the Father. So, while it is true tht no outside agency is powerful enough to wrest anyone from God’s hand; God can cut you off from His Son and cast you away if you do not bear fruit.

These three passages, in Hebrews, 2 Peter and John, are also to be seen a direct rebuttal to the notion that if the person didn’t remain a Christian then he wasn’t “really” saved to begin with. All three of these passages speak clearly of a person who, by any manner of speaking, is in fact, saved but leaves the faith.

3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

Here Jesus tells the apostles to remain in him because if they do then He will remain in them and they will bear much fruit. No one can bear fruit who does not remain in Jesus.

This language indicates that remaining in Jesus required an act of will. The word “remain” (meinate) means, “not to depart, to continue to be present, to maintain unbroken fellowship with.” (Thayer’s) He did not say, “you will remain in me” but, rather He instructed them; “remain in me.”

5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Ifa man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 Ifanyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

And thus Jesus describes the fate of those who do not remain in Him. They are cast into the fire.

The very basic logic here is that in order to “remain in” Jesus one first has to first “be in” Jesus. You have to be saved. And then, once saved, you have the choice of remaining or not.

Notice the word “if” found in a positive sense in verse 5 and a negative sense in verse 6. The word makes no sense if it does not imply free will on the part of the “branch.”

Further comment on salvation is found in the word, “if” in both the Old and New Covenants. Under the Old Covenant Israel was promised specific blessings if they remained faithful to the covenant with God. They were also promised specific curses if they did not remain faithful to the covenant.

When God spoke through the prophets concerning the apostasy of Israel, the message was consistently one of promised blessing for returning to God and of disaster for refusing to return to God. In the same manner in which Jesus told His apostles that they had to remain in Him in order to bear fruit, so God told Israel that they had to remain faithful to Him in order to receive His blessings. There would be absolutely no necessity for God telling Israel to return to Him is it were impossible for them to depart from Him. And remember that God does not change.

So under the New Covenant in Jesus’ Blood, we still have the choice to remain faithful or to turn away from our Lord and be our own lord. (If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.)

COL 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation-- 23 IF you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

Certainly God is not going to force you to abandon faith. The only way it can be conditional, as the word “if” indicates, is that a believer, by an act of his free will, chooses not to remain in the faith and to abandon his relationship with Christ. The word “if” means that salvation is conditional based upon the believer’s decision to remain in the faith. The writer of Hebrews says it again as follows.

HEB 3:12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ IF we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.

The words “See to it” are an instruction which again demonstrates that the hearer (or reader) is assumed to have the free will to make a choice to “see to it” that he does not have an unbelieving heart or not to do so. Verse 14 is crystal clear; “We have come to share in Christ IF we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.” If we do not hold firmly then we will not share in Christ. The teaching of scripture is unequivocal and unambiguous. No one can snatch us from God’s hand but we can climb out if we wish and He will throw us out if we do not “produce fruit in keeping with repentance.” (MT 3:8, LK 3:8)

“Once saved, always saved” is not a teaching from God’s word. It’s a false teaching that suggests to people that they need not exert any effort in the pursuit of holiness since they can do nothing to gain anything more and neither can they do anything to lose the salvation they have been given. It is a license to remain immature and unfruitful. It is an invitation to remain tepid so that Christ will vomit you out of His mouth. (REV 3:16)

 

[AlfredKeith]

fatherjimparker,

Excellent post. This is the identical same point that I was trying to make in my original post #7 back on page one.

 

[fatherjimparker]

Excellent post. This is the identical same point that I was trying to make in my original post #7 back on page one.[/COLOR]

Thank you for encouraging my behavior.

It is impossible to read ALL of scripture and conclude that salvation cannot be lost.

"Faith" is an empty and meaningless word it it is not married to "faithfulness."

 

[James Is Back]

Mod Hat On

Since this thread has now turned into a debate it has been moved from Salvation (Soteriology) to Soteriology DEBATE.

Mod Hat Off​

 

[Berean777]

Salvation comes from the word to salvage. What is being salvaged is the soul.
So can the soul be lost is the proper question?

In short Yes.

But how and why?

We need to understand the character of our God to know exactly what the blood covenant means as part of the contractual agreement between God and man and how and why it could be made null and void in a person's life.

We need to first consider what God said in the Old Testament:

Ezekiel 18:22-24
But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
24“But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.

Now in the New Testament Jesus reiterates this message as follows:

Matthew 5:29-30
29If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

The central theme of Christianity is to be faithful even onto death.

Revelation 2:10
be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

So why do we have to be faithful onto death and if we don't how can we loose our salvation?

Just like any contractual document we have to understand the blood covenant contractual agreement.

When God fully paid the bail bond on the cross at Calvary he bailed all of us out from the curses of the mosaic law that stated that we must all die. This justifies us by faith as now we walk as free men but are now prisoners of Christ, meaning we must obey his beatitudes. Being bailed out means that there is parol conditions which the majestrate who is God the Holy Spirit oversees through the entire person's life and approves their rehabilitation from that moment onto death. This life long rehabilitation is called sanctification, that is, to make complete, meaning Holy.

So the conditions of parol is to agree to be rehabilitated by the fire who is the Holy Ghost and to conform to the beatitudes of Christ and to be made in his personage. If we break these bail conditions by failing to take part in the rehab, then this action is likened to a prisoner who breaks bail and does the runner. When that person dies his salvation is incomplete and therefore the person is lost.

Jesus said there are many called and justified by my blood yet very few will be rehabilitated by God the Holy Spirit.

Salvation is a life long rehabilitation and if a person turns to wickedness after doing good early on in their lives, then that person looses his/her salvation.

Again the central theme of Christainity is to be faithful even unto death.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

Uh, where is the Scripture that was promised that supports your claims??

I'm still waiting for any verse that supports this so-called "process".

It is actually pretty easy to prove your view wrong with Romans 2. The hard part is your stubborn head that refuses to accept His word in obedience.

Romans 2:5-9 CEV
5 But you are stubborn and refuse to turn to God. So you are making things even worse for yourselves on that day when he will show how angry he is and will judge the world with fairness. 6 God will reward each of us for what we have done.7 He will give eternal life to everyone who has patiently done what is good in the hope of receiving glory, honor, and life that lasts forever. 8 But he will show how angry and furious he can be with every selfish person who rejects the truth and wants to do evil. 9 All who are wicked will be punished with trouble and suffering. It doesn’t matter if they are Jews or Gentiles.​

2 Timothy 4:7 CEV I have fought well. I have finished the race, and I have been faithful.

Matthew 24:13 CEV But if you keep on being faithful right to the end, you will be saved.​

It doesn't matter if you accept the gift of salvation in the beginning. It's lost if you can't follow Christ and overcome in obedience and righteous till the end. The end is where it counts, not the beginning. The race to salvation is not a sprint where you win the same day you accepted the gift of salvation. It's a marathon and those who wins are those who endure till the end.

It's not about once saved always saved, it's about being saved at the end.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Uh, where is the Scripture that was promised that supports your claims??

Repentance is a change of mind, metanoia. It is not remorse, feeling sorry for hurting somebody. The apostles tell the jailer that to be saved he must switch loyalty, from the world and self to God. Belief in someone, in the patron client system is to be loyal to someone.


This is the scripture that shows the teaching. Disillusionment with everything, reaching for what the apostles have, and what the apostles have is loyalty, being found obedient to Christ:

Acts 16:29And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, 30and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.


Free grace theology teaches that belief in Jesus for eternal life results in having eternal life. At least that is what I learnt from Wilkins . That is contradictory to scripture which says that if we do not obey Christ's command, to love each other, we remain in death:

1 John 3:14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death.

1 John 5:2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.

I'm still waiting for any verse that supports this so-called "process".

Hebrews 9:15For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. 17For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. 18Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood. 19For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20saying, “THIS IS THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT WHICH GOD COMMANDED YOU.” 21And in the same way he sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood. 22And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

23Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. 26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

Christ is the builder of the legacy. To enforce the will, He died on the Cross. Of course His death achieved many other purposes as well, as the different atonement theories show.


A good article:


http://www.frame-poythress.org/ebooks/the-shadow-of-christ-in-the-law-of-moses/


Quote

We may return to the same conclusion that we reached before: the sacrifice of animals is inadequate to achieve final cleansing, nor can it cleanse anything more than the copies of heavenly things. Then who will bring the definitive sacrifice? A man must do it. A similar point is made indirectly in Num. 35:33-34: “Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land, and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it. Do not defile the land where you live and where I dwell, for I, the LORD, dwell among the Israelites.” When a man had shed blood, the man must die. But there is one exception, when the blood of the death of the high priest releases a manslaughterer to return home (Num. 35:25-28). The blood of the high priest has special value. In agreement with this principle, Zech. 3 uses all the symbolism of a defiled human high priest Joshua and then speaks mysteriously of the Branch in connection with which “I will remove the sin of this land in a single day” (Zech. 3:9).


However, the defilement is by Adam, when he chooses culpability. God removed him from His presence to protect him from physical death. However, separation from God is still death, spiritual death. Jesus enables reunion, by changing the body of death, the sin which sinned, not Paul, into a body that can obey the real man, Paul.

"Uh, "make up the loss". Really?? Where in the world does all this come from, since obviously NOT from the Bible.

Colossians 1:24Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions.

The first 7 words of this paragraph demonstrate the total failure of understanding anything in the Bible. No one "accesses eternal life". One may access the internet, or access their banking account, etc. But not eternal life. It is a GIFT from God. No one can access it. It is given freely as a GIFT from God to those who believe in His Son, something your view seems to be totally uninformed about.

If you do not love God's children then you remain in death. I don't see how eternal life can be a gift if there is a condition attached. Therefore it has to be a choice: to pass into life by being obedient, or not accessing life through disobedience.

This is really unbelievable. And completely unbiblical. The TRUTH is that confession leads to forgiveness, per 1 John 1:9. Second, sanctification is the process of growing up spiritually, which doesn't come from confession, but rather learning Biblical truths, called 'doctrines', of which your view is completely lacking.

1 John 1:9 also speaks of BEING CLEANSED OF ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.


Sanctification is what new covenant believers have. The old covenant believers had forgiveness from the wages of sin, but new covenant believers have deliverance from the presence of sin:


Matthew 1:21And she shall bring forth a son, and you shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

So this is the "process" of salvation. Paul would call this "another gospel", and one that does NOT SAVE.

See above.

And your view sure doesn't lead one to eternal life. Rather, to the second death, as noted in Revelation.

See above.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

you've refuted nothing. So far, you've embarrassed yourself by your assumption of what I have posted. I never indicated that I thought eternal life was immortality. Eternal life is God's life. He IS eternal life, per 1 Jn 5:20.

Not only did I refuted your lack of understanding in eternal life, I also exposed what you thought you knew. You never even realized it's a relationship with God till I told you.

Look at the quotes you've made from the first page. It clearly shows you thought eternal life meant immortality. You don't seem to know the difference between eternal life from eternal salvation.

And the reason we are to believe in Christ is for eternal life. So, Paul is making the point that we must believe in Him for eternal life/salvation in order to be saved.

iow, if one thinks that believing in Christ for a "better life", also known as the prosperity gospel, they are wrong and not saved.

If God allowed any of His children to give back the gift of eternal life, how is that materially different than God simply revoking the gift of eternal life? I see none. So the argument is fallacious.

Please quit treating or considering the gift to be some object. It's NOT. It's eternal life. If words mean things, and the DO, eternal life is, well, eternal. It cannot die. And there is NO Scripture that says that the one possessing eternal life has any POWER to give it away, which is just a fallacy.

How does one "control" their eternal life? Sure, one can commit suicide and end their physical life. But, so what? That isn't possible with eternal life. Why? Because it's, well, eternal. So your point is moot.

Doesn't matter. There are NO verses that teach or even suggest that one who has eternal life has the authority to "give it away". One can kill their own body. But no one can kill ETERNAL life. And it can't be given away because one cannot give away their physical life, or spiritual life.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

Some have claimed that a believer can "give away" his eternal life. Really???!!! How silly. Where does the Bible teach that? No where.

Yes you can. Eternal Life is irrevocable just like any other relationship. God does not obligate you to stay in a relationship with Him. Just like any other relationship, it's by choice with the constant of two parties.

The problem is you still don't understand what eternal life is. Read this my padawan.

http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/eternal_life

http://www.mostimportantthing.org/what-do-you-mean-by-eternal-life

http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-eternal-life.html

It is a mistake, however, to view eternal life as simply an unending progression of years. A common New Testament word for “eternal” isaiónios, which carries the idea ofqualityas well asquantity. In fact, eternal life is not really associated with “years” at all, as it is independent of time. Eternal life can function outside of and beyond time, as well as within time.

For this reason, eternal life can be thought of as something that Christians experiencenow. Believers don’t have to “wait” for eternal life, because it’s not something that starts when they die. Rather, eternal life begins the moment a person exercises faith in Christ. It is our current possession.John 3:36says, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life.” Note that the believer “has” (present tense) this life (the verb is present tense in the Greek, too). We find similar present-tense constructions inJohn 5:24andJohn 6:47. The focus of eternal life is not on our future, but on our current standing in Christ.

The Bible inextricably links eternal life with the Person of Jesus Christ.John 17:3is an important passage in this regard, as Jesus prays, “Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” Here, Jesus equates “eternal life” with a knowledge of God and of the Son. There is no knowledge of God without the Son, for it is through the Son that the Father reveals Himself to the elect (John 17:6;14:9).

This life-giving knowledge of the Father and the Son is a true, personal knowledge, not just an academic awareness. There will be some on Judgment Day who had claimed to be followers of Christ but never really had a relationship with Him. To those false professors, Jesus will say, “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!” (Matthew 7:23).​

Yell if you're still in the dark. I have many more links filled with explanations.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Romans 8.38-39

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

Paul defined what he meant by gifts of God in Romans 1:11, 3:24, 5:15,16,17 AND 6:23. And then he stated that God's gifts are irrevocable. Since God IS eternal life, and is the ONLY One with the authority to gift it, Rom 11:29 proves that eternal life cannot be removed in any way.

This is amazing. You based your entire knowledge of salvation on just one single verse which you have absolutely no idea what it means while shunning all the other many scriptures throughout the bible that warns of one's salvation being lost.

Do you even have the faintest clue what Romans 11:29 is about? You should, because it's not about spiritual gifts Paul spoke of in Romans 1:11. Those are gifts like prophecy, tongues, discernment, healing. Romans 5:15-17 is about Grace. Romans 6:23 is eternal life.

None of those are the same as Romans 11:29. Since you're so lost, here's a clue. It's about the Jewish people and the blessings promised to them through the covenant He established with Abraham and Jacob. That's what's irrevocable in Romans 11:29.

Absolutely amazing indeed. You risk your soul and your entire salvation thinking by merely accepting Christ's gift of salvation, it can never be lost no matter what sins you willfully commit without repentance simply from one single verse in Romans 11:29 that has the word "irrevocable" in it.

Utterly unreal! Laughable too...LOL! Need to get that once saved always saved mentality out of your head. It carries no weight especially if you relying --- solely --- on Romans 11:29.

Romans 11:28-29 (GNT) Because they reject the Good News, the Jews are God's enemies for the sake of you Gentiles. But because of God's choice, they are his friends because of their ancestors. For God does not change his mind about whom he chooses and blesses.​

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Can you lose your Salvation?
Please provide scripture to prove your position.

God bless you

Luke 15 spells it out for me in this false premise question.

The parable of the prodigal son is very helpful, because when we are "born again" we become a member of God's family, not by legal authority of some court, but by the blood of Jesus. So revoking a legal contract sounds more like what the elder son might say, and what the prodigal son might suggest .. but to the Father, the prodigal is always his son.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

Therefore it is sloppy and haphazard theology to use the people in Matthew 7 as examples of loss of salvation.

Marvin, those people in matthew 7 never worked on the relationship. When you accept Christ's gift of salvation, your relationship begins there. but it's also your job to help build up that relationship by following Christ from that moment on. Christians that don't do that are merely professing Christians without a true relationship.

Therefore, they lost their salvation. They had it once they accept Christ as their personal savior (Christ is the salvation), but lost it by not maintaining that relationship. They did not stay "In-Christ."

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Saying one is not saved due to a lack of personal relationship, makes salvation more like dating, but that's not our covenant. The new covenant is superior to the old because it is not based on us, it is based on Jesus. What matters is the supernatural transformation within.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

Here is the exactly what I wrote about Mother Theresa.

"I don't see anyone "mocking" Mother Theresa here.

Any student of scripture would be concerned for her salvation after listening to her teaching and reading her writings.

Was she lost?

We all hope that she was not. But it appears that she was.

She was the victim of a bankrupt system of religion. That system apparently failed her all the way to her death and beyond.

She apparently misunderstood the most basic tenets of the gospel - as do many here in the forum."

I said nothing derogatory about Mother Theresa.

What I did do was recognize and point out to others that, by her own words, her religious system of works had failed to bring her assurance of salvation.

I recognize and point out that any system involving good works to either attain or maintain salvation is a false gospel.

I express sorrow for Mother Theresa's condition as well as for the many here in the forum who depend on their works to attain or maintain salvation.

I not only do not expect rebuke by the Lord at the Judgment Seat of Christ for doing so. I believe that there will likely be a small reward for me for warning His body about the dangers of such false gospels.

You missed the main point of my message. It's not about Mother Theresa. It's about salvation.

The comments against Mother Theresa is one sin that can be easily forgiven by repentance.

But here's the problem. You believe in once saved always saved. That kind of thinking escape repentance because people with this mentality don't think there's a need to turn from sin. They accept Christ's gift of salvation and any sin committed in the future is automatically taken care of without them having to do anything.

Do you see what's wrong with this picture? Once saved always saved creates a license to sin mentality. True salvation comes with repentance, a sincere effort to turn away from a life of flesh.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

Saying one is not saved due to a lack of personal relationship, makes salvation more like dating, but that's not our covenant. The new covenant is superior to the old because it is not based on us, it is based on Jesus. What matters is the supernatural transformation within.

Can't marry Jesus when he returns without dating Him first.

5 wise virgins were dating and waiting for His return.

5 foolish virgins never dated Christ and didn't expect His return.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I would suggest instead of Once Saved Always Saved, to say adopted as first born of God's family. The focus of this debate so far is too "elder son" oriented.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Can't marry Jesus when he returns without dating Him first.

5 wise virgins were dating and waiting for His return.

5 foolish virgins never dated Christ and didn't expect His return.

The marriage is arranged. The 5 foolish virgins did not have the capacity to fill their lamps because they were not born again. The wheat and the tares are the same, it speaks of those in the church, they hear the message but for various reasons it does not take root. I would step away from the idea of "being saved" and examine genuine supernatural transformation from being born again.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

The marriage is arranged. The 5 foolish virgins did not have the capacity to fill their lamps because they were not born again. The wheat and the tares are the same, it speaks of those in the church, they hear the message but for various reasons it does not take root. I would step away from the idea of "being saved" and examine genuine supernatural transformation from being born again.

And this confirms exactly what I've been saying. You can not be transformed without the relationship with Christ. Being saved is an ongoing process till one is finally converted, born again.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

And this confirms exactly what I've been saying. You can not be transformed without the relationship with Christ. Being saved is an ongoing process till one is finally converted, born again.

Well, being born again is just the beginning, there is a new life, and maturity. The redemption of our souls happens later, the Holy Spirit is a deposit of the promise, but this redemption is spoken of in the present affirmative by the apostles.

So in a way, we who are born again, are saved are being saved and will be saved, by him who is faithful.

Though as it is written in the gospel of John, those born not by a husband's will or human decision, but by the Spirit of God.