Your stand on homosexuality?

[ToBeLoved]

One aspect of homosexuality that should be discussed within the Church is whether it is a sin to be homosexual, or whether one can be a celibate homosexual Christian. Is it necessary for a celibate homosexual to actively seek to change his sexual attraction to the same sex, or is it no different to the sexual attraction a heterosexual man experiences?

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I think most churches this would be something that they would have decided upon in advance. Like they have given this subject thought and probably have some kind of position.

I think you misunderstand. I am not speaking of reading about things on the internet, I am speaking of things homosexuals say and their supporters say on the internet.

I can give you at least a dozen people who have said absolutely vicious things about Christians after today's decision. I can tell of you at least two gap men who threatened to find some lesbians to rape another woman who dared say she thought homosexuality was a sin. I can tell you of another person who threatened to make out with me because she knows of my opinions from back when I let me know what I believe. And that's not even counting the hundreds of comments about sky fairies and wearing clothing of two different colors.

But I suppose you think that's all ok because they've been discriminated against.

So you are taking what you read on the internet today, when an historic ruling was passed down by the Supreme Court as your barometer on homosexuals and their conduct?

Don't you think that this is a rather heated discussion with both sides having strong views, on a landmark day in American history? I would stay off the internet until people have calmed down. Sounds like you threw yourself into the middle of a perfect storm.

 

[Destiny2015]

So you are taking what you read on the internet today, when an historic ruling was passed down by the Supreme Court as your barometer on homosexuals and their conduct?

Don't you think that this is a rather heated discussion with both sides having strong views, on a landmark day in American history? I would stay off the internet until people have calmed down. Sounds like you threw yourself into the middle of a perfect storm.

No, a lot I've read earlier. The worst (planning a rape) was a few years ago.

 

[Norm d'Plume]

But I suppose you think that's all ok because they've been discriminated against.

I don't think the kind of hatred you're reading about is okay at all. The Internet is full of trolls, some of them gay. Consider the outrage/anger that poured out of people when O.J. Simpson or George Zimmerman were found not guilty. Consider what hatred people spew about Obama, Clinton, or Bush. Sarah Palin had a picture of Obama on her website with hunting crosshairs over his face. All of it highly inappropriate and unfortunate.

If you or someone else is being threatened, that's a crime, and I would encourage you to report it to the police or FBI.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Norm

 

[Destiny2015]

I don't think the kind of hatred you're reading about is okay at all. The Internet is full of trolls, some of them gay. Consider the outrage/anger that poured out of people when O.J. Simpson or George Zimmerman were found not guilty. Consider what hatred people spew about Obama, Clinton, or Bush. Sarah Palin had a picture of Obama on her website with hunting crosshairs over his face. All of it highly inappropriate and unfortunate.

If you or someone else is being threatened, that's a crime, and I would encourage you to report it to the police or FBI.

m

You and I both know that kind of threat isn't taken seriously by anyone, precisely because of who made it. The sacred cow, as it were.

Quite simply, I am tired of being called a bigot, directly, or indirectly, for a pretty dang innocuous belief of Christianity. It just makes me tired.

 

[RileyG]

I can say nothing about it at all. I am not gay, and therefore am not qualified to judge those who are. There but for the Grace of God go any one of us; we ought to pray for our brothers and sisters, and trust in the mercy of God for us all.

I have my own personal moral code, but I don't expect the rest of the world to follow it because it is not the product of morality but of longstanding abuse. I have learned to avoid abuse by avoiding people.

Few would want to follow my example, whether gay or straight, so I assume I am the one who is out of step with the world, and try to refrain from judging anyone else at all. Fwiw I think the Lord is far more concerned with how we treat one another than who we happen to sleep with.

In my more judgemental moments, however, I do wonder why so many Christians are so very preoccupied with what gay people get up to. What IS that all about?

Catherine,

I, for one, am not preoccupied with all things gay. I am not passing judgment on anyone who chooses that lifestyle, but I do believe the actions are wrong and dangerous to both body and soul.

Yes, I do agree we should not be over occupied with the whole "gay agenda" as some ultra-conservatives like to call it.

 

[Jeremy91016]

Marriage and sex is between man and woman. God created man and woman for each other, and if those two parts aren't together (and only one of each), there is no true marriage and should be no sex.

 

[ken777]

I have been involved in church support groups for people who experience unwanted SSA (same sex attraction). In that time I have known very few cases of a person who had been exclusively homosexual in feelings and/or behavior who became exclusively heterosexual in their thoughts & feelings. However, I do know of a number of cases where people became exclusively heterosexual in their behavior and went on to have happy marriages with children.

I feel that homosexuality does have some biological predisposition as shown by the twin studies, but then so do many disorders.

The Church as a whole does not offer sufficient help & support for people who experience unwanted same sex attraction, and homosexuality is looked upon with such disgust that people are often unwilling to seek help. The Church needs to do a better job in reaching out a helping hand to those who suffer with SSA.


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[DavidAReed]

The bottom line is this: What is God's stand on homosexuality? And that is made abundantly clear in the Bible -- the Bible as Jesus' Apostles Peter, Paul and Jude understood it -- not some new interpretation by the apostate churches who say 'God is still speaking' (and contradicting what He always said before).

"Also remember the cities of Sodom and Gomorraha]" and the other towns around them. In the same way they were full of sexual sin and people who desired sexual relations that God does not allow. They suffer the punishment of eternal fire, as an example for all to see." - Jude 1:7 NCV

David

 

[ken777]

The bottom line is this: What is God's stand on homosexuality? And that is made abundantly clear in the Bible -- the Bible as Jesus' Apostles Peter, Paul and Jude understood it -- not some new interpretation by the apostate churches who say 'God is still speaking' (and contradicting what He always said before).

"Also remember the cities of Sodom and Gomorraha]" and the other towns around them. In the same way they were full of sexual sin and people who desired sexual relations that God does not allow. They suffer the punishment of eternal fire, as an example for all to see." - Jude 1:7 NCV

David

That is true but if we just stop at condemning the sin without offering to help support the sinner I think we fall short of what the Gospel asks of us.

.

 

[BobRyan]

One aspect of homosexuality that should be discussed within the Church is whether it is a sin to be homosexual, or whether one can be a celibate homosexual Christian. Is it necessary for a celibate homosexual to actively seek to change his sexual attraction to the same sex, or is it no different to the sexual attraction a heterosexual man experiences?

.

We could always look at what the Bible says on the subject


Rom 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.



1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Lev 18
22 You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

What about the nation that approves of such things?


24 ‘Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled. 25 For the land has become defiled, therefore I have brought its punishment upon it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants. 26 But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you 27 (for the men of the land who have been before you have done all these abominations, and the land has become defiled); 28 so that the land will not spew you out, should you defile it, as it has spewed out the nation which has been before you. 29 For whoever does any of these abominations, those persons who do so shall be cut off from among their people.


I think that in Canada you cannot read some of these texts over public airwaves... merely reading them is forbidden

 

[ken777]

We could always look at what the Bible says on the subject


Rom 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.



1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Lev 18
22 You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

What about the nation that approves of such things?


24 ‘Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled. 25 For the land has become defiled, therefore I have brought its punishment upon it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants. 26 But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you 27 (for the men of the land who have been before you have done all these abominations, and the land has become defiled); 28 so that the land will not spew you out, should you defile it, as it has spewed out the nation which has been before you. 29 For whoever does any of these abominations, those persons who do so shall be cut off from among their people.


I think that in Canada you cannot read some of these texts over public airwaves... merely reading them is forbidden

I fully endorse all of those texts you quoted, but how does that address the issue I raised about the position of a celibate homosexual?

 

[Steve Petersen]

The Bible allowed slavery and polygamy at one time. Paul endorsed slavery.

It is clear that the Bible is not the final word on things

 

[RDKirk]

Are you speaking about a saved person that is part of the family of Christ or an unsaved person?

Part of the problem with unsaved people in general, homosexual or heterosexual is that they do not recognize sin. Why would we expect those who do not feel that they need a Savior to recognize sin?

In line with that:

For those who live according to the flesh think about the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, about the things of the Spirit.

The mind-set of the flesh is death, but the mind-set of the Spirit is life and peace. The mind-set of the flesh is hostile to God because it does not submit itself to God’s law, for it is unable to do so. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. -- Romans 8

 

[ken777]

The Bible allowed slavery and polygamy at one time. Paul endorsed slavery.

It is clear that the Bible is not the final word on things

Many of the OT moral laws were incorporated into Christianity while the civil & ceremonial laws were abolished as they only pertained to Israel.

Paul wrote a little book called Philemon in which he said a slave should be treated as a brother. Slavery provided for all a person's needs in a time when state welfare was not available, and it was strictly regulated. The abuses of modern slavery were condemned.

Polygamy was allowed but Jesus taught it was not God's original plan for humankind (Mat 19)

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[RDKirk]

I don't know of any adulterers who call you a bigot and threaten you physically if you happen to mention you think adultery is a sin, nor do they want legal protection for it - and yes, it's illegal in some areas/communities (think the military). That's the difference.

You must never have gotten into a discussion with adulterers in the pews about adultery, then. Because if you do, they will definitely attack you for it.

 

[BobRyan]

I fully endorse all of those texts you quoted, but how does that address the issue I raised about the position of a celibate homosexual?

I would never argue against an alcoholic that refuses to drink alcohol or someone who says he is a celibate homosexual or a kleptomaniac who chooses not to steal etc. The sinful condition takes myriad forms.

 

[RDKirk]

The Bible allowed slavery and polygamy at one time. Paul endorsed slavery.

It is clear that the Bible is not the final word on things

The bible "allows" slavery the same way it "allows" divorce. Paul "endorses" slavery the same way he "endorsed" divorce.

Slavery was a social fact in the worldly nations at that time, but it was not the mission of Jesus to fix the worldly nations. It was Jesus' mission to establish an embassy of the Kingdom of Heaven within those worldly nations as a light unto their darkness, as an asylum from their distress.

I have a long post on this site in which I trace how in scripture slavery should not exist within the Body of Christ any more than divorce should exist.

 

[RDKirk]

I think you misunderstand. I am not speaking of reading about things on the internet, I am speaking of things homosexuals say and their supporters say on the internet.

I can give you at least a dozen people who have said absolutely vicious things about Christians after today's decision. I can tell of you at least two gap men who threatened to find some lesbians to rape another woman who dared say she thought homosexuality was a sin. I can tell you of another person who threatened to make out with me because she knows of my opinions from back when I let me know what I believe. And that's not even counting the hundreds of comments about sky fairies and wearing clothing of two different colors.

But I suppose you think that's all ok because they've been discriminated against.

Anger and hatred is the natural reaction of the flesh to being discriminated against. Why does it surprise you when those who are of the "mindset of the flesh" react naturally in the flesh instead of by the Sermon on the Mount? Of course they react that way: The mindset of the flesh is hostile to God because it does not submit itself to God’s law, for it is unable to do so. -- Romans 8.

A dog will eat something putrid because it smells interesting. When it upsets the dog's stomach, the dog will vomit it up. But the dog does not connect the eating with the distress, so because the vomit still smells interesting, he eats it again.

Why be upset by the natural action of the dog? Understand why he does it and how to act with that knowledge.

 

[Norm d'Plume]

I think that in Canada you cannot read some of these texts over public airwaves... merely reading them is forbidden

I'd be interested to know the source for that. I was born in Montreal and lived in Canada for thirty years. There are numerous Christian radio stations that discuss the Bible and play Christian music. When I was growing up, stores were closed for the Sabbath, although that is no longer the case, same as here.

You may be referring to the publicly owned CBC radio/TV network (similar to PBS). I wouldn't be surprised if they don't broadcast regular Sunday Christian services as a matter of policy since they would then be obligated to give time to other religions as well.

However, the CBC covers Christian funerals just as they would the funeral of anyone who warrants national coverage, including live coverage of services from inside church. They also cover religious topics in general in talk shows and other formats as it pertains to the historical and societal influence of religions. If they were doing a segment on Christianity and homosexuality, it would be appropriate to quote Scripture.

Canada is fundamentally a Christian nation, but it strives to maintain the same separation of church and state as in the U.S. It's built into their Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

 

[Heardthebells]

Canada is fundamentally a Christian nation, but it strives to maintain the same separation of church and state as in the U.S. It's built into their Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

It is to stop one church from gaining too much power. No church has all the answers but brought together the best answers can be found.