The Queen Of Heaven Is A Devil!

[Rhamiel]

I only call Jesus LORD , I can't speak for others so I can only assume

good
when you say "Lord" I do not assume you mean anything pagan, I assume you are talking about Jesus

when I say Queen of Heaven, I do not mean anything pagan, I am talking about Mary

 

[4x4toy]

good
when you say "Lord" I do not assume you mean anything pagan, I assume you are talking about Jesus

when I say Queen of Heaven, I do not mean anything pagan, I am talking about Mary

Point taken , I have no desire to hurt anyone and I'm sure Muslims , Mormons , even the KKK believe with all their heart they are doing God a service .. According to Mark there are signs that follow them that believe along with other scripture describing gifts of the Spirit .. We are not smarter than scripture and I've found if you play too far off base you will get picked off somewhere between 1srt and homeplate .. Even my preachers can get off base but I am responsible to Jesus only for my salvation ..

 

[Wgw]

Uh , Scripture tells us where Jesus tomb was .. But the stone was found rolled away and the tomb empty on the third day ..He even left the napkin folded up signifying He would return ..

Acrually it doesnt say where rhe Holy Sepulchre was, but my church believes it is in the Basillica of the Holy Sepulchre, the stone tomb encased in a structure called the aedicule surrounded by a courtyard so worshippers can see it from all sides.

A minority of Protestants believe in a tomb found by Charles Gordon in the 19th century.

A few years ago a pop archaeologost claimed to discover the real tomb of Jesus,,with an inscription identifying him as the son of Joseph, married to a wife named Mary (as in Mary Magdalene) or somesuch and having died naturally, the sepulchre being decidedly unopened, as "proof" the resurrection did not happen. But these claims were panned even by disinterested archaeologosts as beimg bad science and semsationalist journalism. The alleged finding of a tomb of Peter in Jerusalem would fall into the same category.

All of the Apostolic Fathers who mention the subject unanimously agree that Peter was martyred in Rome, by means of crucifixion while inverted, and was buried beside the Circus Maximus at what is the Basillica of St. Peter. This was a location of secret midnight and dawn masses of Roman Christians before Constantine, and after Constantine became one of four main churches in Rome, the others being the Cathedral of Ss. John the Baptist and John the Evangelist in the Lateran, which is the actual Cathedral of the Bishop of Rome and was the most important church in Rome, with the Pope living in the adjacent Lateran Palace, until the Great Western Schism between the Popes of Rome and Avignon, which led to the more defensible Vatican Hill, and St. Peters, becoming the main churches. However, St. John Lateran remains the offical cathedral. Then, St. Paul outside the Walls is built on the spot where St. Paul was beheaded, and St. Mary Major rounds out the list. Of these, the most architecturally impressive is of course St. Peters. In the crypt, Vatican archaeologists have located what they are certain are Peters remains.

It is the doctrine of the Orthodox Church that Peter was indeed buried under St. Peters, and our laity sometimes make pilgrimages there, but of greater importance to us is the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, which is jointly controlled by the Oriental Orthodox (all four of our churches are present, but the Armenians have the largest presence), the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem, and the Roman Catholic Franciscan Friars who have custody over all RC places of worship in the Holy Land. For the most part the Church of the Holy Sepulchre is subdivided into different areas used by different churches; the Romans in particular have their own spaces tucked away, while the Greeks and Armenians share quite a bit more, and the other Oriental Orthodox have nooks and crannies, but there are several shared common areas, such as the Rock of Golgotha and the Aedicule. There is a dire need for restoration work but tensions between the churches have delayed it. To keep the peace, the church is unlocked every morning and locked every night by a Muslim family appointed to that role by the Ottoman bey in the 1840s if memory serves, and the keys have been kept in their posession for the succeding generations; many members of this family have become Christian however.

 

[Wgw]

Back to the OP .. I've heard the church tortured and killed many , many Jews and Christians through the years .. How could any one be expected to believe Mary, Jesus own mother would ever include herself in such .. Or torture of anyone for that matter if it's true of coarse ..

Members of the apostolic churches have sinned. However, my denomination,mthe Syriac Orthodox Church, has to my knowledge the highest ratio of members killed or martyred by other Christians or Muslims, to people we have abused, of any Christian church claiming apostolic succession, including our OO brethren.

 

[4x4toy]

Members of the apostolic churches have sinned. However, my denomination,mthe Syriac Orthodox Church, has to my knowledge the highest ratio of members killed or martyred by other Christians or Muslims, to people we have abused, of any Christian church claiming apostolic succession, including our OO brethren.

So when did that happen

 

[Wgw]

Since 451 weve been persecuted by the Byzantine Empire, the Muslims, and were along with the Armenians and Assyrians victims of a genocidal action in 1915 by the Ottoman Empire,and again since 2014 by ISIL.

 

[timewerx]

Simon Magus was the founder of the Gnostic Heresy, according to St. Irenaeus. You are, in the above posts, depending entirelt on Orthodox/Catholic sources: Irenaeus, Eusebius's Ecclesiastical History, and St. Epiphanius of Salamis, who wrote an encyclopedia of heresies, and also St. Hippolytus, and Tertullian and Origen.

Simon Magus was a disciple of Philip who was in turn, a disciple of Apostle Paul.

Peter harshly rebuked Simon Magus for his behavior towards the Holy Spirit.

Simon Magus expressed utter surprise at the miraculous works Peter was doing. Just one evidence over a mountain more that Apostle Paul is teaching a different gospel - one that has no approval from Christ.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

My dear, God does not have a mother. The Son of Man along the line of flesh (Our Lord Jesus- which is God in the flesh) did. Mary was just a privileged saint for our Lord Jesus to pass through her to earth. If you remember very well, when someone proclaimed to Jesus that blessed is the womb that bore him, he replied, rather, blessed is the person that keep the commandments of God.

If Mary the mother of our Lord Jesus is in heaven, he had to seek salvation just exactly as everyone of us must do.

But the question here, what is the point, being so committed to giving honor to the dead. As a reply to Wgw, when we honor the dead at their burial grounds, do we continue the process? If we continue the process, even in the Church, then it is nothing short of Idolatry. So you better watch it (Food for Thought).

From your pic I think am old enough to be your father. So if you insist on using "my dear" to address me (I'd rather one not) then please add "sir" after it.

Technically Mary gave birth to a Man who is God, so in that sense Mary could be properly called Mother of God, though no one except a fool would think using that title indicates the person doing so believes God has or needs a mother. Mary is much more than "privileged" as indicated (BEFORE She said became the first to say "yes" to Jesus) by the angel's greeting to Her - he did not use future tense in that greeting and Mary was also asked - to which Her reply was yes.

As long as one is admonishing others to "remembering very well", how about re-reading that entire passage starting with what was going on before the woman said that. Who is the women complementing? She is complementing Jesus not Mary - she is essentially saying how lucky is Mary to have a son like "you". She is praising Him, not Mary. She is marveling at what she just heard. Our Lord God "rather" than rebuking the women is actually redirecting the women's PROPER praise of Him to saying do not just look at me as your Savior (or say how Great I am) but change your life (keep My commandments -follow my Word). To get anything out of scripture one needs to "remember very well" to read it as it was originally written - complete letters and sentences in the form of paragraphs - rather than searching out specific verses (reference numbers were added much later) to build/defend an anti-catholic position already held.

Mary is indeed a Saint and in Heaven. In fact tradition has it that Her Son Himself carried Her there. Saint John's vision also clearly has Saint aware and active in Heaven (offering up prayers of the living).

The Saints are "living" in a manner we cannot comprehend and certainly in some sense more "alive" than us given where they are and Whom they are with. So the proper respect and honor shown the Saints is not a case of either idol worship or the same as giving proper respect/honor at burial sites of our loved one. I will be the first to admit some Catholics do go or at least appear to go (since I did not know any that do this) too far, which is why I am careful and use the word "proper" but of course this too will be ignored by those already holding strong and obvious anti-catholic views.

 

[Wgw]

Simon Magus was a disciple of Philip who was in turn, a disciple of Apostle Paul.

Peter harshly rebuked Simon Magus for his behavior towards the Holy Spirit.

Simon Magus expressed utter surprise at the miraculous works Peter was doing. Just one evidence over a mountain more that Apostle Paul is teaching a different gospel - one that has no approval from Christ.

Thats such a distorted view of what happened. And its impossible to discuss this with tou, because one minute you cite Luke-Acts as unreliable, for its Pauline influence, and then you use it to attack Paul.

Simon Magus was a Zoroastrian priest (hence, Magus) who has gone rogue, was received by Philip, but excommunicated by St. Peter for trying to buy an ecclesiastical office, an offence the Church calls Simony. He later founded the Gnostic heresy and claimed to be God the Father.

The fact that St. Philip baptized an evil man does not reflect poorly on St. Paul. After all, the Twelve ordained Nicolas, the founder of the wife-swapping Nicolaitan heresy, which was so vile as to be expressly condemned by our Lord in the Apocalypse.

 

[4x4toy]

Simon Magus was a disciple of Philip who was in turn, a disciple of Apostle Paul.

Peter harshly rebuked Simon Magus for his behavior towards the Holy Spirit.

Simon Magus expressed utter surprise at the miraculous works Peter was doing. Just one evidence over a mountain more that Apostle Paul is teaching a different gospel - one that has no approval from Christ.

Simon Magus and numbers of others heard the gospel preached but denied the Power there of .. Don't lay that crap off on Paul .. Probably why you live in squalor timewerx

 

[4x4toy]

From your pic I think am old enough to be your father. So if you insist on using "my dear" to address me (I'd rather one not) then please add "sir" after it.

Technically Mary gave birth to a Man who is God, so in that sense Mary could be properly called Mother of God, though no one except a fool would think using that title indicates the person doing so believes God has or needs a mother. Mary is much more than "privileged" as indicated (BEFORE She said became the first to say "yes" to Jesus) by the angel's greeting to Her - he did not use future tense in that greeting and Mary was also asked - to which Her reply was yes.

As long as one is admonishing others to "remembering very well", how about re-reading that entire passage starting with what was going on before the woman said that. Who is the women complementing? She is complementing Jesus not Mary - she is essentially saying how lucky is Mary to have a son like "you". She is praising Him, not Mary. She is marveling at what she just heard. Our Lord God "rather" than rebuking the women is actually redirecting the women's PROPER praise of Him to saying do not just look at me as your Savior (or say how Great I am) but change your life (keep My commandments -follow my Word). To get anything out of scripture one needs to "remember very well" to read it as it was originally written - complete letters and sentences in the form of paragraphs - rather than searching out specific verses (reference numbers were added much later) to build/defend an anti-catholic position already held.

Mary is indeed a Saint and in Heaven. In fact tradition has it that Her Son Himself carried Her there. Saint John's vision also clearly has Saint aware and active in Heaven (offering up prayers of the living).

The Saints are "living" in a manner we cannot comprehend and certainly in some sense more "alive" than us given where they are and Whom they are with. So the proper respect and honor shown the Saints is not a case of either idol worship or the same as giving proper respect/honor at burial sites of our loved one. I will be the first to admit some Catholics do go or at least appear to go (since I did not know any that do this) too far, which is why I am careful and use the word "proper" but of course this too will be ignored by those already holding strong and obvious anti-catholic views.

Mark 12 states that Jesus said that Lazerus sister Mary would be remembered for the kindness she showed to Jesus by washing His feet with her hair and tears .. He said where ever the Gospel is preached it would be a memorial to her .. Memorial is for some one who is dead .. She will burst out of her grave transformed like all the dead in Christ at the second coming .. I thank God somebody showed Jesus such love and kindness in the world he was sent that He mentioned the event ..
At least that's what scripture says .. There was Moses and Elijah prophesied to come and possibly appear again end time, but as far as I understand all others including Mary and Joseph sleep in their grave .. It may be seen as anti catholic but in no way do I see it as anti scripture .. Sorry , no offence .. On another note as I learn about pagan holidays I'm developing an un easy feeling in my gut about them and a turning more to understand the feasts Jesus observed including the Sabbath .. But Paul did say let no man judge you if you regard one day or another ..

 

[timewerx]

The fact that St. Philip baptized an evil man does not reflect poorly on St. Paul. After all, the Twelve ordained Nicolas, the founder of the wife-swapping Nicolaitan heresy, which was so vile as to be expressly condemned by our Lord in the Apocalypse.

You wouldn't baptize an evil man in the first place. By example, Jesus wasn't soft on everyone. He particularly condemned the Pharisees and other Jews if they fail the test Jesus gives them, usually, by being infuriated by His teaching.

Don't lay that crap off on Paul .. Probably why you live in squalor timewerx

What about Christians in a far worse situation than me?? Is it because they are far more twisted in their beliefs than me???

Is that what you mean?? Those Christians being tortured, dying in the most horrific ways, forced to live in refugee camps caught in the middle of conflicts in the MIddle East and Africa is because they are following corrupted theology???!!!

I hope you never get down to my situation. I hope your country stays in peace and prosperity indefinitely.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Mark 12 states that Jesus said that Lazerus sister Mary would be remembered for the kindness she showed to Jesus by washing His feet with her hair and tears .. He said where ever the Gospel is preached it would be a memorial to her .. Memorial is for some one who is dead .. She will burst out of her grave transformed like all the dead in Christ at the second coming .. I thank God somebody showed Jesus such love and kindness in the world he was sent that He mentioned the event ..
At least that's what scripture says .. There was Moses and Elijah prophesied to come and possibly appear again end time, but as far as I understand all others including Mary and Joseph sleep in their grave .. It may be seen as anti catholic but in no way do I see it as anti scripture .. Sorry , no offence .. On another note as I learn about pagan holidays I'm developing an un easy feeling in my gut about them and a turning more to understand the feasts Jesus observed including the Sabbath .. But Paul did say let no man judge you if you regard one day or another ..

The saints depicted offering up the prayers of the living are not sleeping, and that is certainly not "anti-scripture".

 

[Wgw]

You wouldn't baptize an evil man in the first place. By example, Jesus wasn't soft on everyone. He particularly condemned the Pharisees and other Jews if they fail the test Jesus gives them, usually, by being infuriated by His teaching.





What about Christians in a far worse situation than me?? Is it because they are far more twisted in their beliefs than me???

Is that what you mean?? Those Christians being tortured, dying in the most horrific ways, forced to live in refugee camps caught in the middle of conflicts in the MIddle East and Africa is because they are following corrupted theology???!!!

I hope you never get down to my situation. I hope your country stays in peace and prosperity indefinitely.

Everyone is evil, according to our Lord. I dont believe a good man has ever been baptized. The only chance we have of becoming Good, theosis, requires baptism as a prerequisite to wash away sin, Chrismation or confirmation to seal in the Holy Spirit, and the Eucharist to sustain our souls and unite us to Christ.

 

[Wgw]

The saints depicted offering up the prayers of the living are not sleeping, and that is certainly not "anti-scripture".

Indeed.

 

[Wgw]

Simon Magus and numbers of others heard the gospel preached but denied the Power there of .. Don't lay that crap off on Paul .. Probably why you live in squalor timewerx

Simon Magus admitted the power of the Gospel but thought it was something he could buy.

 

[emekrus]

From your pic I think am old enough to be your father. So if you insist on using "my dear" to address me (I'd rather one not) then please add "sir" after it.

Technically Mary gave birth to a Man who is God, so in that sense Mary could be properly called Mother of God, though no one except a fool would think using that title indicates the person doing so believes God has or needs a mother. Mary is much more than "privileged" as indicated (BEFORE She said became the first to say "yes" to Jesus) by the angel's greeting to Her - he did not use future tense in that greeting and Mary was also asked - to which Her reply was yes.

As long as one is admonishing others to "remembering very well", how about re-reading that entire passage starting with what was going on before the woman said that. Who is the women complementing? She is complementing Jesus not Mary - she is essentially saying how lucky is Mary to have a son like "you". She is praising Him, not Mary. She is marveling at what she just heard. Our Lord God "rather" than rebuking the women is actually redirecting the women's PROPER praise of Him to saying do not just look at me as your Savior (or say how Great I am) but change your life (keep My commandments -follow my Word). To get anything out of scripture one needs to "remember very well" to read it as it was originally written - complete letters and sentences in the form of paragraphs - rather than searching out specific verses (reference numbers were added much later) to build/defend an anti-catholic position already held.

Mary is indeed a Saint and in Heaven. In fact tradition has it that Her Son Himself carried Her there. Saint John's vision also clearly has Saint aware and active in Heaven (offering up prayers of the living).

The Saints are "living" in a manner we cannot comprehend and certainly in some sense more "alive" than us given where they are and Whom they are with. So the proper respect and honor shown the Saints is not a case of either idol worship or the same as giving proper respect/honor at burial sites of our loved one. I will be the first to admit some Catholics do go or at least appear to go (since I did not know any that do this) too far, which is why I am careful and use the word "proper" but of course this too will be ignored by those already holding strong and obvious anti-catholic views.

I'm sorry sir. Indeed I'm a young man. But you know how it is online; how many a time, you don't know who is who until you've checked through the profile. So forgive my negligence.

But sir, do you have any scriptures to prove that the saints that are dead are already in heaven and are interceding for the living? If you check very carefully, you'll notice that I don't like arguing beyond the scriptures. For all I know-and have scriptural and practical results to show- it is only the Holy Spirit that can help the saints to pray.

For me, if it is not scriptural, then it is apostasy or heretic.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

I'm sorry sir. Indeed I'm a young man. But you know how it is online; how many a time, you don't know who is who until you've checked through the profile. So forgive my negligence.

But sir, do you have any scriptures to prove that the saints that are dead are already in heaven and are interceding for the living? If you check very carefully, you'll notice that I don't like arguing beyond the scriptures. For all I know-and have scriptural and practical results to show- it is only the Holy Spirit that can help the saints to pray.

For me, if it is not scriptural, then it is apostasy or heretic.

Thank you. And understand for me it is not scripture alone and most scripture cannot stand alone without risk of being open to a multitude of understandings. God is not the author of confusion, so it cannot be true that each of us are left to arrive at so many different conclusions.

The elders in Saint John's visions are depicted in Heaven and very much active (rather than sleeping). And one of the things they are depicted doing is offering up the prayers of saints, which would be the same thing I would be doing to pray for you or anyone else - offering up a prayer to God on your behalf - and that true whether one asked me or not. Revelation chapter 4 & 5 for the introduction to the elders, note 5:8 and then 8:3-4 what happens to those prayers.

 

[emekrus]

Firstly, the revelations of John was not for the present. Remember, in that very book of Revelation, Jesus told John to come, so he could show him the things that will come to pass shortly. And as for the prayers of the elders, they were actually praising God. And for the prayers of saint that was mentioned, it is the prayers of saints on earth-ascending to heaven. If the dead has the power to pray to change anything, then of course, there must have also been forgiveness after death. But you and I know, there is no forgiveness after death. No one can pray for himself or the living after death.

 

[Rhamiel]

Firstly, the revelations of John was not for the present. Remember, in that very book of Revelation, Jesus told John to come, so he could show him the things that will come to pass shortly. And as for the prayers of the elders, they were actually praising God. And for the prayers of saint that was mentioned, it is the prayers of saints on earth-ascending to heaven. If the dead has the power to pray to change anything, then of course, there must have also been forgiveness after death. But you and I know, there is no forgiveness after death. No one can pray for himself or the living after death.

we are not talking about the "prayers" of those in hell
we are talking about the prayers of those in heaven

those in hell can not pray, because for fallen man to worship God, the man must first be moved by grace
everything we have is from God
those in hell have cut themselves off from His grace

those in heaven are filled in His grace