How were the Nephilim conceived?

[Neogaia777]

Were the women overcome by a spirit and impregnated like Mary was, or did they have to possess men in order to have sex and conceive?

And, if the Nephilim were born from spiritual conception, did they have a spirit inside of them that continued on in the earth, perhaps along with the demons, (or maybe are part of where some of the demons came from), when they died?

Comments?

God Bless!

 

[Xalith]

The usual belief I come across, is that the Fallen Angels took the form of a human (just like the Angels who went into Sodom and Gomorrah and into Lot's house), and whilst in human form, they laid with "the daughters of man" to produce the abominations.

If God's angels can assume the form of men (one of the apostles, I forget which, tells us that we should always be kind, for we never know if we might be entertaining angels), then I assume that the Fallen Angels can do the same.

Obviously, God's Angels would not commit such abominations... but, from all that we know about Satan and his demons, we know that they wouldn't hesitate to do such a nasty, horrible thing.

The only thing that makes me wonder, is why did they stop doing this back in the early days of Israel (Goliath and such)?

We can only thank God that these horrible creatures no longer exist on the Earth that we know of.

 

[joshuanazar]

The usual belief I come across, is that the Fallen Angels took the form of a human (just like the Angels who went into Sodom and Gomorrah and into Lot's house), and whilst in human form, they laid with "the daughters of man" to produce the abominations.

If God's angels can assume the form of men (one of the apostles, I forget which, tells us that we should always be kind, for we never know if we might be entertaining angels), then I assume that the Fallen Angels can do the same.

Obviously, God's Angels would not commit such abominations... but, from all that we know about Satan and his demons, we know that they wouldn't hesitate to do such a nasty, horrible thing.

The only thing that makes me wonder, is why did they stop doing this back in the early days of Israel (Goliath and such)?

We can only thank God that these horrible creatures no longer exist on the Earth that we know of.

My best bet is that Satan saw that this attempt wasn't working and decided that since these fallen angels were punished for such acts that it was in his best interest to save his forces for trying to pervert the saints.

 

[dragongunner]

Were the women overcome by a spirit and impregnated like Mary was, or did they have to possess men in order to have sex and conceive?

And, if the Nephilim were born from spiritual conception, did they have a spirit inside of them that continued on in the earth, perhaps along with the demons, (or maybe are part of where some of the demons came from), when they died?

Comments?

God Bless!

No sound scripture for the above belief. Its called DNA, God created it. Just like when men lived for hundreds of years, just like the experts say back in Jesus day the average height of man was just about 5' 5" and today its 6' or more and we have some basketball player over 7' and some people much much taller and bigger. If you want to believe demons, spirits, angels had anything to do with getting humans pregnant then know thats a fable with no sound biblical doctrine. I prefer the scriptures and wisdom.

 

[Xalith]

No sound scripture for the above belief. Its called DNA, God created it. Just like when men lived for hundreds of years, just like the experts say back in Jesus day the average height of man was just about 5' 5" and today its 6' or more and we have some basketball player over 7' and some people much much taller and bigger. If you want to believe demons, spirits, angels had anything to do with getting humans pregnant then know thats a fable with no sound biblical doctrine. I prefer the scriptures and wisdom.

Genesis 6:4

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

"Sons of God" = Angels (Satan's fallen angels that is)
"Daughters of Men" = Human Women
"Came in unto" = mated with

I don't think we could get any clearer answer than that.

 

[Merlin]

Except that we do not know that ' ben elohim' were fallen angels.
The bible does not say.

 

[dragongunner]

"Sons of God" does not = angels. OT tells us that those that worship and believe in God are His "sons". God even referred to Isreal as his "son". Do you believe we are the "sons" of God by adoption? Guess that makes us angels…..? No bible at all for angels having sex with humans, just misinterpretations of the worst kind.

 

[Sketcher]

The Nephilim were not a separate race. It describes a subset of people that were powerful, yet wicked. No demon-mating required.

 

[joshuanazar]

You say DNA is responsible. But that sounds pretty hard to believe. If DNA was responsible for Giants, then what about a good man marrying an evil woman contributed genetically to this? If the giants were created by genes then how did they come about after the flood when any genetic information would be wiped out. Obviously Noah and his family did not carry this gene. So where did the gene from? And these Giants were over nine feet, if the average human was around five feet than that would make these giants almost twice as big. This is not some genetic variance, but a mutation (over 90% of genetic mutations are deadly and the other percent does not grant superpowers regardless of what Stan Lee says). What could cause such a mutation? You say the union between good men and evil women, I ask why no giants today? You said you use wisdom please answer my question. Why no giants today?

 

[joshuanazar]

The Nephilim were not a separate race. It describes a subset of people that were powerful, yet wicked. No demon-mating required.

And what about the Rephaims?

 

[Sketcher]

You say DNA is responsible. But that sounds pretty hard to believe. If DNA was responsible for Giants, then what about a good man marrying an evil woman contributed genetically to this? If the giants were created by genes then how did they come about after the flood when any genetic information would be wiped out. Obviously Noah and his family did not carry this gene. So where did the gene from? And these Giants were over nine feet, if the average human was around five feet than that would make these giants almost twice as big. This is not some genetic variance, but a mutation (over 90% of genetic mutations are deadly and the other percent does not grant superpowers regardless of what Stan Lee says). What could cause such a mutation? You say the union between good men and evil women, I ask why no giants today? You said you use wisdom please answer my question. Why no giants today?

I believe I answered that in the other thread. "Giants" not being literal. Plenty of very tall people today. But the main thrust of the passage is that the children were wicked. This is a very consistent theme in the Old Testament, where those following God married those who did not, and the generations after them became increasingly wicked.

 

[Sketcher]

And what about the Rephaims?

Genetic irregularities.

 

[joshuanazar]

Genetic irregularities.

Can we just combine the two threads so that we are not double posting? I pretty much already explained my view on this genetic thing. It wasn't irregularities. The entire race was giants. Now Isaiah says that there is no resurrection for the Rephaim why would you think it says that if they were human? Please look at my posts on the other thread and reply here if you can. But there is no way they could be figurative giants.

 

[dragongunner]

DNA started with Adam and Eve……do we all look the same today? Are some short, some tall….do all have same color eyes? God made all the DNA codes. At some point some men became giants, and yes after the flood also because the same DNA that was in Adam and Eve was in Noah and his family so it carried on…..what so hard to see that? Unless you still persist angels or demons having sex with humans which is not scriptural. Guniess has a man in there I believe in the last century that was over 9' tall also…..good and evil does not make DNA giants. Cains decedents could of made some giants and in course of time it could of been their daughters who were married to those who believed in God and had takin them for wives, thus the DNA code would of spread in that way…..wisdom friend. Its awesome, ask and ye shall receive. Ever here of 2 midgets and their DNA produce a normal height person?

 

[joshuanazar]

I am trying to get away from this topic. But the Simple fact is that Noah did not carry these genes that caused giants. Since this trait affected entire races, this "giant gene" would have to be a dominate gene. And being a dominate gene Noah himself would have to be a giant if he carried it also there is a very good chance that his children would be giants (50% per child at the least if Noah's wife did not carry the gene at all). Judging by the size of the ark, I would say that this is not the case. So the "giant gene" was not carried over on the ark.

I am not saying that the Cause of giants wasn't genetic, (I believe it was) I am saying that the laws that govern the distribution of genetic material does not answer how giants came to be after the ethnic cleansing of the Flood. This giant gene had to come from somewhere outside of the human race.

And with you keep talking about wisdom it seems that you are trying to say that those who disagree with you lack it. If that were the case it is a very petty tactic to use in debates and somewhat shows a lack of emotional control. If that were not the case, then my deepest apologies. Now onto a new topic.

 

[dragongunner]

I am trying to get away from this topic. But the Simple fact is that Noah did not carry these genes that caused giants. Since this trait affected entire races, this "giant gene" would have to be a dominate gene. And being a dominate gene Noah himself would have to be a giant if he carried it also there is a very good chance that his children would be giants (50% per child at the least if Noah's wife did not carry the gene at all). Judging by the size of the ark, I would say that this is not the case. So the "giant gene" was not carried over on the ark.

I am not saying that the Cause of giants wasn't genetic, (I believe it was) I am saying that the laws that govern the distribution of genetic material does not answer how giants came to be after the ethnic cleansing of the Flood. This giant gene had to come from somewhere outside of the human race.

And with you keep talking about wisdom it seems that you are trying to say that those who disagree with you lack it. If that were the case it is a very petty tactic to use in debates and somewhat shows a lack of emotional control. If that were not the case, then my deepest apologies. Now onto a new topic.

I'll ignore the the last paragraph since it has no purpose since it shows you have lost the argument.


What scripture, doctrine or college did you go to to know that the giant gene had to come from somewhere outside the human race? I would like to know your wisdom on this. Who told you this? Do they hold a pastors position, what college did they go to, to have such high knowledge? Check the link below…..where did these giants come from? I'm sorry you believe angels had sex with humans, we will have to agree to diagree. I tried showing scriptures, I received none in return with proof from you. God Bles

http://www.bigdonsboys.com/giant_giants/index.htm

 

[joshuanazar]

I'll ignore the the last paragraph since it has no purpose since it shows you have lost the argument.


What scripture, doctrine or college did you go to to know that the giant gene had to come from somewhere outside the human race? I would like to know your wisdom on this. Who told you this? Do they hold a pastors position, what college did they go to, to have such high knowledge? Check the link below…..where did these giants come from? I'm sorry you believe angels had sex with humans, we will have to agree to diagree. I tried showing scriptures, I received none in return with proof from you. God Bles

http://www.bigdonsboys.com/giant_giants/index.htm

If you believe that you have won, then I accept that and cede defeat. And I have not gone to any university to learn about genetics, it was just something taught in high school. You know the genotypes, phenotypes and the punnett square. I just used logic to rule out Noah and his families (who is the only survivors of the flood and the only possible humans to keep this gene alive) as the source of this gene among the new humans. If the gene did not come from Noah and his family, then where did it come from?

And I have given scripture on several occasions, but here are some more that talks about "sons of God". Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:4-7, Daniel 3:25. These all seem like angels to me, or at least they were definitely not human.

 

[Xalith]

And I have given scripture on several occasions, but here are some more that talks about "sons of God". Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:4-7, Daniel 3:25. These all seem like angels to me, or at least they were definitely not human.

Is there ever a time in scripture where "Sons of God" refer to humans?

In fact, if you go to Biblegateway and do a search on "son of god", you'll come up with only a few passages (most of them NT referring to Jesus Himself). Most of these you already quoted, lol.

The rest are obviously angels.

And I'm not directing that at you, Joshuanazar, but the other person.

I don't see anywhere where 'son of God' or 'sons of God' ever being used in scripture to refer to a human.

 

[Svt4Him]

"Sons of God" does not = angels. OT tells us that those that worship and believe in God are His "sons". God even referred to Isreal as his "son". Do you believe we are the "sons" of God by adoption? Guess that makes us angels…..? No bible at all for angels having sex with humans, just misinterpretations of the worst kind.

This is simply a horrible exegesis. There is plenty of great arguments that they were in fact angels, and the idea that the bible needed to say the men were laying with women and having large babies because the women were laying with men just seems so far-fetched and redundant, that it becomes absurd. Not saying it is angels, but to say it's a misinterpretation of the worst kind is in fact a misinterpretation of the worst kind.

 

[branchofthevine]

I was reading 1 Enoch (well, the book of Watchers specifically), and it goes into more detail, kind of. The angels lead by Samyaza just procreated with the women. And taught them all kinds of things. And then the Nephilim where pretty big, and ate blood, and ate humans. And they were killed in the deluge and the spirits of the Nephilim became demons.