What God says about conduct

[JLR1300]

In Luke 18:9 When Jesus was about to give the Parable of the Pharisee and the tax Collector Luke says..." Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and despised others: Two men went up to the temple to pray..."

So when Jesus said that He did not come to call the righteous, isn't it likely that He had these folks in mind... (people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous) That seems to be the case all though the "gospels".

 

[98cwitr]

I did read the article and my argument still stands. Koine Greek was the common language at the time Paul was writing not Classical Greek. Paul's quote was from Psa. 14:1-3 not Eccles. as the article says. Moreover the article seems to suggest that folks could be righteous in some way when the whole of the Scriptures say differently. Noah's righteousness was an imputed righteousness the same as ours. He wasn't without sin which is what it takes to be righteous. When the Psalms say that the Lord blesses the righteous it must mean those with an imputed righteousness for anything less than perfection is not accepted.

What about Job?

 

[Hammster]

Can the OP explain what is meant by "attack"? How would that differ from "a difference of views"?

 

[twin1954]

What about Job?

What about out him? His righteousness was the same as ours. God showed him he was a sinner when He appeared in the whirlwind. We find that the first picture of imputed righteousness is right after the Fall, Gen. 3:21. God shed the blood of a substitute and clothed Adam and Eve with its skin. Yes Job lived uprightly , as did many, but his righteousness was not of himself. There is a difference between living and walking uprightly and being righteous.

 

[98cwitr]

What about out him? His righteousness was the same as ours. God showed him he was a sinner when He appeared in the whirlwind. We find that the first picture of imputed righteousness is right after the Fall, Gen. 3:21. God shed the blood of a substitute and clothed Adam and Eve with its skin. Yes Job lived uprightly , as did many, but his righteousness was not of himself. There is a difference between living and walking uprightly and being righteous.

Can you show me where you interpret that Job was a sinner? Because Job 1:1 says he was blameless.

 

[Hammster]

Can you show me where you interpret that Job was a sinner? Because Job 1:1 says he was blameless.

I'm blameless. But I'm a sinner.

 

[98cwitr]

I'm blameless. But I'm a sinner.

But where's Job's sin?

 

[Hammster]

But where's Job's sin?

We know he wasn't sinless.

 

[98cwitr]

We know he wasn't sinless.

OK...so show me where he sinned.

To further the point...what about Enoch...if the wage of sin is death, he didn't pay it!

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

 

[Hammster]

OK...so show me where he sinned.

To further the point...what about Enoch...if the wage of sin is death, he didn't pay it!

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned- Romans 5:12

 

[Hupomone10]

But where's Job's sin?

Job 42:6
"Therefore I retract, And I repent in dust and ashes."

Repentance usually implies sin. Just a thought.

Blessings,
H.

 

[Bluelion]

Job 42:6
"Therefore I retract, And I repent in dust and ashes."

Repentance usually implies sin. Just a thought.

Blessings,
H.

i think 98 is getting to a point with them. but what that is I do not yet see.

 

[Avid]

Originally Posted by Hammster

We know he wasn't sinless.
​

Originally Posted by 98cwitr

OK...so show me where he sinned...
​

First, Job did not live in the time that the Apostle Paul said that. Further, neither Zacharias nor his wife, Elisabeth, were alive in that time.

Second, if we had testimony that God in Heaven had told Satan that any person was perfect, and upright, we may need to consider that as significant.

Third, no person Paul was addressing, and, I'm convinced, no person living then or since (in their original, unregenerate state) was worthy of God having that opinion of him.

Job 1
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Job 2
3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

Luke 1
5 ¶ There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
​

We should be careful not to mistakenly apply one verse of scripture to all people outside the clear meaning, and contrary to clearly stated passages elsewhere. It is a typical thing done by people (especially churchgoing people) because they hear a sermon, read a passage of scripture, and make a doctrine out of that idea that was conveyed to their finite minds.

We all need to take care in this area, and I like reading things here as part of that. I can learn from others, and seek the LORD to direct my understanding.

 

[Hammster]

Originally Posted by Hammster

We know he wasn't sinless.
​

Originally Posted by 98cwitr

OK...so show me where he sinned...
​

First, Job did not live in the time that the Apostle said that. Further, n either Zacharias nor his wife, Elisabeth, were alive in that time.

Second, if we had testimony that God in Heaven had told Satan that any person was perfect, and upright, we may need to consider that as significant.

Third, no person Paul was addressing, and, I'm convinced, no person living then or since was worthy of God having that opinion of him.

Job 1
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Job 2
3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

Luke 1
5 ¶ There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
​

We should be careful not to mistakenly apply one verse of scripture to all people outside the clear meaning, and contrary to clearly stated passages elsewhere. It is a typical thing done by people (especially churchgoing people) because they hear a sermon, read a passage of scripture, and make a doctrine out of that idea that was conveyed to their finite minds.

We all need to take care in this area, and I like reading things here as part of that. I can learn from others, and seek the LORD to direct my understanding.

I'm not sure if your point here.

 

[Avid]

I'm not sure if your point here.

Your comment in the first quote is disproved, and the remainder of the point is as follows.

What did Job say, exactly, and what did God tell him, exactly? Nowhere did Job say anything about himself that God had not said. Truly, Job testified what God had already stated about him. Also, Job did not say anything about God that was sinful, but only he spoke without knowing that all his trouble was not about him so much as it was a legal battle between God and Satan.

Job did not see all the WHY of his troubles, and spoke about things he did not know. When Job repented, it was for saying things without an understanding that God was not punishing him, and that God was not actually the one doing it to him.

The story of Job is about the oldest thing we have written in the scriptures. One of the FIRST lessons written in scripture attempted to teach people that not everyone who has blessings in this life is GOOD in God's eyes, and not everyone who has trouble is BAD in God's eyes. In fact, the rule typically goes the opposite way.

 

[Hammster]

Your comment in the first quote is disproved, and the remainder of the point is as follows.

What did Job say, exactly, and what did God tell him, exactly? Nowhere did Job say anything about himself that God had not said. Truly, Job testified what God had already stated about him. Also, Job did not say anything about God that was sinful, but only he spoke without knowing that all his trouble was not about him so much as it was a legal battle between God and Satan.

Job did not see all the WHY of his troubles, and spoke about things he did not know. When Job repented, it was for saying things without an understanding that God was not punishing him, and that God was not actually the one doing it to him.

The story of Job is about the oldest thing we have written in the scriptures. One of the FIRST lessons written in scripture attempted to teach people that not everyone who has blessings in this life is GOOD in God's eyes, and not everyone who has trouble is BAD in God's eyes. In fact, the rule typically goes the opposite way.

My first quote wasn't disproved because I provided scripture to back it up.

 

[Avid]

We know he wasn't sinless.

Job 1
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
​

 

[Avid]

But where's Job's sin?

We know he wasn't sinless.

OK...so show me where he sinned...

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned- Romans 5:12

There is the issue of context. It may require we read more than one verse at a time to get what is meant. Keep reading a couple more verses, and you see something other than what is assumed when only one verse is taken.

Romans 5
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
​

 

[Avid]

98 asked, "But where's Job's sin?" and "OK...so show me where he sinned..."

This is the right way to approach any dissection of these doctrines. We await the answer.

 

[Hammster]

Job 1
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
​

I don't see "sinless" in there.