What God says about conduct

[Bluelion]

On this forum it seems many do not regard how they act, I am guilty of losing my cool also. In fact i have gotten so use to people attacking me that when a friend I had just made addressed me in a familiar way I attack them, well imagine my surprise when they were not attacking me. People say things like you need a thick skin, really, on a Christian forum? Do you need to be worldly on a Christian forum? Its unkind is what it is, its not thinking of others. sure I have done it to, but all to often I am attack and find my self defending my self and when I do those same people attacking report me and then guess what, I just fell for the trap. Because that is why people attack you and then report you, its a trap. What do you think God would say about those who lay traps for there brothers and sisters? That is something I have never done and never will. I don't use deceit or cast stones before the feet of my brothers and sisters. But I thought. sense i am like you guilty of losing my cool and setting forest ablaze with my tongue i would look into conduct. How God says we are to treat each other.

The first think I cam across is 1 Peter 3

8 Finally, all of you should be of one mind. Sympathize with each other. Love each other as brothers and sisters.[a] Be tenderhearted, and keep a humble attitude.

9 Don’t repay evil for evil. Don’t retaliate with insults when people insult you. Instead, pay them back with a blessing. That is what God has called you to do, and he will grant you his blessing. 10 For the Scriptures say,

“If you want to enjoy life
and see many happy days,
keep your tongue from speaking evil
and your lips from telling lies.
11 Turn away from evil and do good.
Search for peace, and work to maintain it.
12 The eyes of the Lord watch over those who do right,
and his ears are open to their prayers.
But the Lord turns his face
against those who do evil.”

Seems we are not of one mind, or maybe not all who claim God are actually His? We are to test everyone who comes in the name of the Lord with The Word. Do they preach with God Word or against? How do they react to the truth of God's Word? How do they act when shown wrong? do they admit it, do they accept they are wrong? or do they rebel and have pride and arrogance. God hates both pride and arrogance? Proverbs 8:13
13 All who fear the Lord will hate evil.
Therefore, I hate pride and arrogance,
corruption and perverse speech.

I was once attack for a post I did when I was shock by a gay man I was playing a game online with. He was talking about things he wanted to do to other players. People on this very forum attacked me because I was shocked. Now I just found I was correct to be shock as I just found this passage once again. So If people argue for perverse speech are they children of God? Well you can break it down for your self. Are they arguing for God or against. well Here we see it is against. So they are on opposite side arn't they? But one case does not make this as there are exceptions, but when the person time and time again preaches against God's word how can they say they are on the side of God?

Proverbs 6:16
16 There are six things the Lord hates—
no, seven things he detests:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that kill the innocent,
18 a heart that plots evil,
feet that race to do wrong,
19 a false witness who pours out lies,
a person who sows discord in a family.

see that part in bold lets look at that for a min.
Here is the dictionary definition.
adjective, haughtier, haughtiest.
1.
disdainfully proud; snobbish; scornfully arrogant; supercilious:
haughty aristocrats; a haughty salesclerk. (dictionary.com)

lets look at websters.

haugh·ty adjective \ˈhȯ-tē, ˈhä-\
: having or showing the insulting attitude of people who think that they are better, smarter, or more important than other people

So wait does insulting people mean your haughty. Well God tells us not to purposely insult people could this be why. I think it is interesting. I am learning here I am Just outlining my journey, you decide for your self.

But you see how proverbs 6:16 fits with 1 peter 8? and that is why we study all the Bible over and over again and write God's Words on our hearts, because we read one thing and see how it fits with another thing said or complement's it. Peter tells us not to insult other and repay insult with insult and then in Proverbs we see God hates these things. See how the New Testament can be traced Back to the Old, and Like wise we can draw from the Old to move forward to the New. God said teacher of religious Law, well I'll post it. Mat 13:52
52 Then he added, “Every teacher of religious law who becomes a disciple in the Kingdom of Heaven is like a homeowner who brings from his storeroom new gems of truth as well as old.”

Do you see why this is? God is unchanging, what is true in the Old is true in the New, but wait they stoned people, but look to Jesus. Jesus kept all the Law and never once stoned anyone. as Jesus explain many times the Jews had not understood God. Eye for and Eye mean do on to others as you would have done to you. The Golden Rule.
That is why you can not fully Get what God is saying by reading Just the New or just the old as Jesus said the two go together.

Let turn now to James 4 with the heading of drawing close to God.

4 What is causing the quarrels and fights among you? Don’t they come from the evil desires at war within you? 2 You want what you don’t have, so you scheme and kill to get it. You are jealous of what others have, but you can’t get it, so you fight and wage war to take it away from them. Yet you don’t have what you want because you don’t ask God for it. 3 And even when you ask, you don’t get it because your motives are all wrong—you want only what will give you pleasure.

what does that say about this forum? How many fights go on? and why, Has God not just said why?

James 4:
4 You adulterers![a] Don’t you realize that friendship with the world makes you an enemy of God? I say it again: If you want to be a friend of the world, you make yourself an enemy of God. 5 Do you think the Scriptures have no meaning? They say that God is passionate that the spirit he has placed within us should be faithful to him. 6 And he gives grace generously. As the Scriptures say,

“God opposes the proud
but gives grace to the humble.”[c]

see that, there it is again God hates the proud, gives grace to the humble. what did 1 Peter say? Peter 3:8 Be tenderhearted, and keep a humble attitude. What did proverbs says God hates pride. Let's be clear God does not hate at all when i use that word I am saying reject, how it was meant in Jacob I have Loved and Esau I have hated. More accurate translation Is the Jacob I have accepted and Esau I have rejected. That is closer in the Greek. So God does not hate at all, hate is the opposite of love, if Love is Good then hate is evil. It really is that simple.

James 4:7
7 So humble yourselves before God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Come close to God, and God will come close to you. Wash your hands, you sinners; purify your hearts, for your loyalty is divided between God and the world. 9 Let there be tears for what you have done. Let there be sorrow and deep grief. Let there be sadness instead of laughter, and gloom instead of joy. 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up in honor.

what does God say about judging? James 4:11
11 Don’t speak evil against each other, dear brothers and sisters.[d] If you criticize and judge each other, then you are criticizing and judging God’s law. But your job is to obey the law, not to judge whether it applies to you. 12 God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy. So what right do you have to judge your neighbor?

Now lets address this hear. This fits with Romans 14

14 Accept other believers who are weak in faith, and don’t argue with them about what they think is right or wrong. 2 For instance, one person believes it’s all right to eat anything. But another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. 3 Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don’t. And those who don’t eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to condemn someone else’s servants? Their own master will judge whether they stand or fall. And with the Lord’s help, they will stand and receive his approval.

See this is what James is speaking of and what Paul is addressing also. It is the conflict between believers. See how the Books fit? See James says you are judging the Law and you are not to do that. Paul is speaking of the food Laws, do you see?

So those weak in faith should not judge those who are strong in Faith. Like I say it does not matter what day i rest a week just as long as I do and reflect on God. But some Christians may say I must keep Sunday Holy and Jews might say It is Friday sundown to sundown Saturday. It does not matter i keep it in spirit. They need a set day neither is wrong, understand?

lets complete James 4

13 Look here, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we are going to a certain town and will stay there a year. We will do business there and make a profit.” 14 How do you know what your life will be like tomorrow? Your life is like the morning fog—it’s here a little while, then it’s gone. 15 What you ought to say is, “If the Lord wants us to, we will live and do this or that.” 16 Otherwise you are boasting about your own pretentious plans, and all such boasting is evil.

17 Remember, it is sin to know what you ought to do and then not do it.

Also Paul again In Romans reminds us it is a sin if we believe in our hearts it is a sin for us, for us that believe that its a sin. So for those who keep the food Laws or Holy Days, it is a sin for them not to keep them because they believe it is in their hearts. See how the books fit?

James 1:26
26 If you claim to be religious but don’t control your tongue, you are fooling yourself, and your religion is worthless. 27 Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

So we see controlling our tongue is important.

this is long so I will end with this.

Mat 5:43
43 “You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’[q] and hate your enemy. 44 But I say, love your enemies![r] Pray for those who persecute you! 45 In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. 46 If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. 47 If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that. 48 But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

I hope this has been as fruit full for you as it has been for me, and I hope you can see how a person is led by The Holy Spirit through scripture because i very much was through this and outlined it for you. I also hope you can see how the whole Bible fits together.
God Bless
blu.

 

[GoingByzantine]

Luke 5:29-32

29 Then Levi gave Him a great feast in his own house. And there were a great number of tax collectors and others who sat down with them. 30 And their scribes and the Pharisees complained against His disciples, saying, “Why do You eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?”

31 Jesus answered and said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

When we lose our cool in conversation it only goes to show that we are indeed sinners, we are not treating one another with love. The good news is that Christ calls us to his supper, we who are sinners.

We are people who still need saving, by listening to his word and praying to him we will be healed.

 

[Bluelion]

Luke 5:29-32

29 Then Levi gave Him a great feast in his own house. And there were a great number of tax collectors and others who sat down with them. 30 And their scribes and the Pharisees complained against His disciples, saying, “Why do You eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?”

31 Jesus answered and said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

When we lose our cool in conversation it only goes to show that we are indeed sinners, we are not treating one another with love. The good news is that Christ calls us to his supper, we who are sinners.

We are people who still need saving, by listening to his word and praying to him we will be healed.

Good point and true.

One correction thought the verse you quoted is not right. it is not those who are righteous but those who think they are righteous.

luke 5:32 NLT

32 I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent.”

blu

 

[GoingByzantine]

Good point and true.

One correction thought the verse you quoted is not right. it is not those who are righteous but those who think they are righteous.

luke 5:32 NLT

32 I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent.”

blu

Thank you for the correction, we are called to righteousness, so that makes sense.

Silly NKJV

 

[Bluelion]

Thank you for the correction, we are called to righteousness, so that makes sense.

Silly NKJV

wow that was from the NKJV? that really changes the whole meaning don't you think? The KJV says the same so i guess i need the correction. Wow changes the meaning don't you think?

 

[GoingByzantine]

wow that was from the NKJV? that really changes the whole meaning don't you think? The KJV says the same so i guess i need the correction. Wow changes the meaning don't you think?

Yeah it really does change the meaning, I guess the only way to figure this out would be to check the Greek.

 

[Bluelion]

Yeah it really does change the meaning, I guess the only way to figure this out would be to check the Greek.

The KJV is good enough for me, i guess this is why they tell us to draw from many translations in school.

That makes me a little up set because i was telling some one this very quote and I used as the king James does then I saw the NLT and thought I had lead them wrong. I felt very guilty and I had it right the first time. Maybe we should all start reading Greek Well The Holy Spirit leads us right?

thank you for your insight.
blu

 

[mikedsjr]

Good point and true.

One correction thought the verse you quoted is not right. it is not those who are righteous but those who think they are righteous.

luke 5:32 NLT

32 I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent.”

blu

The NET, ESV, NASB, any meaningful word for word translation says that "I have not come to call the righteous....". The NLT is not a go to version for accuracy. Its a version for people who want something readable but don't mind if it isn't as consistent as a word for word translation would strive to be. If you want to use that, fine, but don't say, in so many words, "The word for word translation is wrong".

There will be issues that will arise from a phrase by phrase version, but they can certainly be helpful for those who just want to read the Bible with a sort of commentary already included within the Scripture. This verse here is an example of commentary included into the Scriptures. Another verse of commentary that you provided is Proverbs 6:17. Your focus was on the haughty eyes, but further in that verse the NLT says, "hands that kill the innocent", while all the word for word translations say in so many words, "hands that shed innocent blood". The key factor is blood is a theme throughout Scripture. Shedding blood of innocent carries more weight than just killing the innocent within Scripture. The NLT has provided commentary that blood was not necessary for translation and held no value for the verse, but it does.

I'm not going to go through all the verses you listed just to show how the NLT differs significantly in how it translates out even though the generic theme of the NLT could be okay for the purpose of reading Scripture.

All in all, I agree that people need to be very careful with how they come across. I'm rarely offended by people insulting my character or telling me my theology is wrong. I'm very much more passionate about Scripture taken seriously. And I certainly don't like it when people, even if I support their side in some way, demean the opposing side. Its a challenge to get people to hear a side and to hear them properly explain it. Very few are willing to be respectful enough to do that on either side. Arguing, in the classical sense, is a "loving" pursuit. A pursuit to caringly argue. And that certainly takes effort and love to carry out properly.

 

[Bluelion]

The NET, ESV, NASB, any meaningful word for word translation says that "I have not come to call the righteous....". The NLT is not a go to version for accuracy. Its a version for people who want something readable but don't mind if it isn't as consistent as a word for word translation would strive to be. If you want to use that, fine, but don't say, in so many words, "The word for word translation is wrong".

There will be issues that will arise from a phrase by phrase version, but they can certainly be helpful for those who just want to read the Bible with a sort of commentary already included within the Scripture. This verse here is an example of commentary included into the Scriptures. Another verse of commentary that you provided is Proverbs 6:17. Your focus was on the haughty eyes, but further in that verse the NLT says, "hands that kill the innocent", while all the word for word translations say in so many words, "hands that shed innocent blood". The key factor is blood is a theme throughout Scripture. Shedding blood of innocent carries more weight than just killing the innocent within Scripture. The NLT has provided commentary that blood was not necessary for translation and held no value for the verse, but it does.

I'm not going to go through all the verses you listed just to show how the NLT differs significantly in how it translates out even though the generic theme of the NLT could be okay for the purpose of reading Scripture.

All in all, I agree that people need to be very careful with how they come across. I'm rarely offended by people insulting my character or telling me my theology is wrong. I'm very much more passionate about Scripture taken seriously. And I certainly don't like it when people, even if I support their side in some way, demean the opposing side. Its a challenge to get people to hear a side and to hear them properly explain it. Very few are willing to be respectful enough to do that on either side. Arguing, in the classical sense, is a "loving" pursuit. A pursuit to caringly argue. And that certainly takes effort and love to carry out properly.

Had not heard that about the NLT, I find it an easy read, I find the KJV a little difficult for me. I think i might go to NASB, I know that is suppose to be the most literal translation..

I think often people find them self speaking to people in ways they would not want to be spoken to or not how they would speak with a son, brother or parent. We all need to remember we are suppose to be family. I realize not everyone who says they are God's actually belong to God, but God says love our enemies to, so even that does not give us an excuse.

Thank you for your input, Good stuff.

blu

 

[98cwitr]

In times like these I turn to the greek

οὐκ ἐλήλυθα καλέσαι δικαίους ἀλλὰ ἁμαρτωλοὺς εἰς μετάνοιαν.

Not come to call those who observe customs but sinners unto a change of mind [repentance].

Direct translation of δικαίους: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=dikai/ous&la=greek&prior=ou)

Sourced from: Greek Bible

More contextual uses of the word: http://biblehub.com/greek/dikaious_1342.htm

 

[Bluelion]

In times like these I turn to the greek

οὐκ ἐλήλυθα καλέσαι δικαίους ἀλλὰ ἁμαρτωλοὺς εἰς μετάνοιαν.

Not come to call those who observe customs but sinners unto a change of mind [repentance].

Direct translation of δικαίους: Greek Word Study Tool

Sourced from: Greek Bible

More contextual uses of the word: Greek Concordance: ???????? (dikaious) -- 6 Occurrences

Thank you 98. I must confess i did not understand all the links you posted, but I trusted in God and went back and read the context of the passages. It is clear the pharisees he was speaking of thought them self to be righteous and they were not actually righteous. So the NLT shines light on this fact.

I must say we disagree about much, but you have helped me regain my faith, for that I thank you. I can now see it is Clear and why I read the NLT, but I do see i will need to learn Greek. I look forward to those classes.

If you give a child of God so much as a cup of water you shall be rewarded, You my friend have given me much more.

blu

 

[JLR1300]

To 98

That is interesting and is a good observation. I personally have noticed in my life that if I try and convince a person who trusts in ceremonies ...like believing that you have to be baptized into their denomination to be saved (Like Roman Catholic or Church of Christ) you have a hard time convincing them to not trust in their customs and ceremonies and good religious deeds for salvation. But if you find a person who isn't like that but knows that he is a sinner... it is easier to convince them to quit trusting in their works for salvation. Those people will listen. They have come to realize that they are not good and so they are ready to change their minds about trusting in themselves and are ready to look to Christ alone for salvation.

 

[twin1954]

In times like these I turn to the greek

οὐκ ἐλήλυθα καλέσαι δικαίους ἀλλὰ ἁμαρτωλοὺς εἰς μετάνοιαν.

Not come to call those who observe customs but sinners unto a change of mind [repentance].

Direct translation of δικαίους: Greek Word Study Tool

Sourced from: Greek Bible

More contextual uses of the word: Greek Concordance: ???????? (dikaious) -- 6 Occurrences

Sorry but in every reputable lexicon I own the word dikaious is translated as righteous rather than observing customs. Strong's, Vines, Thayer, and Baur, Arndt, Gingrich 4th edition all give the word righteous.

 

[JLR1300]

Maybe that explains why I had never heard that before...

 

[98cwitr]

Sorry but in every reputable lexicon I own the word dikaious is translated as righteous rather than observing customs. Strong's, Vines, Thayer, and Baur, Arndt, Gingrich 4th edition all give the word righteous.

The word is taken from many greek writings (many secular), not just ones that are focused on New Testament translations, but on the actual word in the context of the Greek language. To the average greek person, it would have been used when referring to someone with an apparent faith and a follower of something. Many Greeks would use the word simply to refer to a Jewish person, because they "observed customs."

More info on the source...who is an accredited Massachusetts University: About the Perseus Digital Library

 

[98cwitr]

Also

For writers in classical Greek the righteous man was the man who “observed social rules; fulfilled his obligations; did his duty to the gods.” In that setting the word had to do with being decent and civilized.

OCC - Righteous

It would make sense to say that Christ had already called the righteous, for there is no one righteous that God has not already called. Again, he did not come to call those who deemed themselves as righteous [falsely] (1 John 1), that is, the Pharisee and Sadducee, but people who not only sinned, but knew their sin.

 

[twin1954]

Also



OCC - Righteous

It would make sense to say that Christ had already called the righteous, for there is no one righteous that God has not already called.

The problem with that is that the New Testament wasn't written in Classical Greek but Koine Greek. There is a difference. That is why all seminaries teach Koine Greek instead of Classical Greek. Secular colleges teach Classical Greek.

 

[98cwitr]

The problem with that is that the New Testament wasn't written in Classical Greek but Koine Greek. There is a difference. That is why all seminaries teach Koine Greek instead of Classical Greek. Secular colleges teach Classical Greek.

This supports a position that Christ didn't LITERALLY mean the righteous, but those who only claimed to be righteous. I think we can all agree on that one.

Read the whole OCC link I posted, I think you and I will find solid agreement.

I think the NLT translation nails it, even better than my beloved NIV.

 

[twin1954]

This supports a position that Christ didn't LITERALLY mean the righteous, but those who only claimed to be righteous. I think we can all agree on that one.

Read the whole OCC link I posted, I think you and I will find solid agreement.

I think the NLT translation nails it, even better than my beloved NIV.

I did read the article and my argument still stands. Koine Greek was the common language at the time Paul was writing not Classical Greek. Paul's quote was from Psa. 14:1-3 not Eccles. as the article says. Moreover the article seems to suggest that folks could be righteous in some way when the whole of the Scriptures say differently. Noah's righteousness was an imputed righteousness the same as ours. He wasn't without sin which is what it takes to be righteous. When the Psalms say that the Lord blesses the righteous it must mean those with an imputed righteousness for anything less than perfection is not accepted.

 

[twin1954]

One more thing, I wouldn't use the NLT to blow my nose. The NIV is not much better.