why do jews reject jesus?

[danny ski]

why do jews reject jesus?

Because he failed.

 

[Dialogues]

From my point of view, people are tested when others tell them it's been fulfilled when it hasn't been and those who cross over to the other side have failed the test. A Jew is to stay true to Torah even in the face of the entire world screaming that we are wrong. We are to cling to Torah. Every faith I know that loves to tell us we're wrong first tells us that we no longer need Torah; we can have something else!

You might the following excerpt from the book 'Ar-Raheeq al Makhtum' (The Sealed Nectar) of some interest. It is about the Jewish expectations of a prophet at the time (according to Deut 18:18), which they had told the Arabs around them, and their subsequent attitude after they recognised Muhammad s.a. as being the very prophet whom they were expecting:

The Madinese had always heard the Jews say that a Prophet was about to rise, for the time for a new dispensation had arrived. Him they would follow and then smite their enemies as the children of ‘Ad and Iram had been smitten.

... The Prophet (Peace be upon him) presented to them (the Arabs of Madina) an expose of Islam, explained its implications, and the responsibilities that fell upon the men who accepted it. When the Prophet (Peace be upon him) concluded his talk, they exchanged among themselves ideas to the following effect: “Know surely, this is the Prophet with whom the Jews are ever threatening us; wherefore let us make haste and be the first to join him.” They, therefore, embraced Islam, and said to the Prophet ...

Ibn Ishaq, on the authority of the Mother of believers Safiyah (May Allah be pleased her) narrated: Safiyah, daughter of Huyayi bin Akhtab said: I was the closest child to my father and my uncle Abi Yasir’s heart. Whenever they saw me with a child of theirs, they should pamper me so tenderly to the exclusion of anyone else. However, with the advent of the Messenger of Allâh (Peace be upon him) and setting in Quba’ with Bani ‘Amr bin ‘Awf, my father, Huyayi bin Akhtab and my uncle Abu Yasir bin Akhtab went to see him and did not return until sunset when they came back walking lazily and fully dejected.

I, as usually, hurried to meet them smiling, but they would not turn to me for the grief that caught them. I heard my uncle Abu Yasir say to Ubai and Huyayi: “Is it really he [i.e. Muhammad (Peace be upon him)]?” The former said: “It is he, I swear by Allâh!” “Did you really recognize him?” they asked. He answered: “Yes, and my heart is burning with enmity towards him”

An interesting story that took place on the first day, the Prophet (Peace be upon him) stepped in Madinah, could be quoted to illustrate the mental disturbance and deep anxiety that beset the Jews. ‘Abdullah bin Salam, the most learned rabbi among the Jews came to see the Prophet (Peace be upon him) when he arrived, and asked him certain questions to ascertain his real Prophethood. No sooner did he hear the Prophet’s answers than he embraced Islam, but added that if his people knew of his Islamization they would advance false arguments against me.

The Prophet (Peace be upon him) sent for some Jews and asked them about ‘Abdullah bin Salam, they testified to his scholarly aptitude and virtuous standing. Here it was divulged to them that he had embraced Islam and on the spot, they imparted categorically opposite testimonies and described him as the most evil of all evils. In another narration ‘Abdullah bin Salam said, “O Jews! Be Allâh fearing. By Allâh, the only One, you know that he is the Messenger of Allâh sent to people with the Truth.” They replied, “You are lying.” ... That was the Prophet’s first experience with the Jews.

I can understand that for centuries, Jews may have expected the prophet of [Deut 18:18] to be an Israelite one, but once it became clear to them that the prophecy was actually fulfilled in an Ishmaelite prophet, jealousy/enmity should not have been allowed to prevent a majority of the Jews from accepting him.

Accepting the Qur'an does not involve rejecting the Torah which is described as a guidance and light in the Qur'an; rather, one rejects the Torah by rejecting the fulfillment of it's prophecies about Muhammad s.a.

Peace.

 

[TG123]

You might the following excerpt from the book 'Ar-Raheeq al Makhtum' (The Sealed Nectar) of some interest. It is about the Jewish expectations of a prophet at the time (according to Deut 18:18), which they had told the Arabs around them, and their subsequent attitude after they recognised Muhammad s.a. as being the very prophet whom they were expecting:

I can understand that for centuries, Jews may have expected the prophet of [Deut 18:18] to be an Israelite one, but once it became clear to them that the prophecy was actually fulfilled in an Ishmaelite prophet, jealousy/enmity should not have been allowed to prevent a majority of the Jews from accepting him.

Accepting the Qur'an does not involve rejecting the Torah which is described as a guidance and light in the Qur'an; rather, one rejects the Torah by rejecting the fulfillment of it's prophecies about Muhammad s.a.

Peace.

Salaam Alaikum. Where do you get the idea that Muhammad is described in the Torah? Is it true that the Quran says that he is in the Torah and Gospel, and that Christians and Jews are instructed to look in these books to find him mentioned there?

This is what Deuteronomy 18:18 states:

Deuteronomy 18:14-2214 The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the Lord your God has not permitted you to do so. 15 The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him. 16 For this is what you asked of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, “Let us not hear the voice of the Lord our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die.”
17 The Lord said to me: “What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. 19 I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”
21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.

Was Muhammad an Israelite?

 

[TG123]

Because he failed.

Shalom. What makes you say He failed?

 

[LoAmmi]

I have never found anything in Jewish literature that says we have been waiting for a prophet from Deut 18.. That appears to be an invention of those outside of Judaism to make claims

 

[Dialogues]

Salaam Alaikum. Where do you get the idea that Muhammad is described in the Torah? Is it true that the Quran says that he is in the Torah and Gospel, and that Christians and Jews are instructed to look in these books to find him mentioned there?

Muhammad s.a. is mentioned in a number of places in the Bible.

This is what Deuteronomy 18:18 states:

It does not say 'fellow israelites' in the hebrew or in most translations. It states 'their brethren', by which it was meant the ishmaelites, who are the brethren of the israelites, for Ishmael and Isaac were brothers.

Was Muhammad an Israelite?

No, he was one of the Ishmaelites, the brethren of the Israelites.

Peace.

 

[danny ski]

Shalom. What makes you say He failed?

Our messiah and the messianic age suppose to bring back exiles, universal peace, etc. None of this happened, yet. As a matter of fact, events since 1st century AD make the Babylonian exile look like rainy vacation in Hawaii. How can any sane Jew look at Jesus' and his followers "accomplishments" and even consider him the promised messiah?

 

[TG123]

Muhammad s.a. is mentioned in a number of places in the Bible.

It does not say 'fellow israelites' in the hebrew or in most translations. It states 'their brethren', by which it was meant the ishmaelites, who are the brethren of the israelites, for Ishmael and Isaac were brothers.

No, he was one of the Ishmaelites, the brethren of the Israelites.

Peace.

Alaikum Salaam.

True enough, I should have looked more closely. It does say "their brethren". Let's read Deuteronomy 18 to see what the term "their brethren" is a reference to.

Deuteronomy 18
18 “The Levitical priests, all the tribe of Levi, shall have no portion or inheritance with Israel. They shall eat the Lord's food offerings[a] as their[b] inheritance. 2 They shall have no inheritance among their brothers; the Lord is their inheritance, as he promised them. 3 And this shall be the priests' due from the people, from those offering a sacrifice, whether an ox or a sheep: they shall give to the priest the shoulder and the two cheeks and the stomach. 4 The firstfruits of your grain, of your wine and of your oil, and the first fleece of your sheep, you shall give him. 5 For the Lord your God has chosen him out of all your tribes to stand and minister in the name of the Lord, him and his sons for all time.
6 “And if a Levite comes from any of your towns out of all Israel, where he lives—and he may come when he desires[c]—to the place that the Lord will choose, 7 and ministers in the name of the Lord his God, like all his fellow Levites who stand to minister there before the Lord, 8 then he may have equal portions to eat, besides what he receives from the sale of his patrimony.[d]
Abominable Practices

9 “When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering,[e] anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer 11 or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, 12 for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. 13 You shall be blameless before the Lord your God, 14 for these nations, which you are about to dispossess, listen to fortune-tellers and to diviners. But as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do this.
A New Prophet like Moses

15 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen— 16 just as you desired of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die.’ 17 And the Lord said to me, ‘They are right in what they have spoken. 18I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19 And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him. 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or[f] who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

We see that the Levitical priests shall have no portion or inheritance among Israel. It is repeated that they shall have no inheritance among their brothers. The term "brothers" is a reference to Israel.

The prophet will be raised up "from among you". The Book of Deuteronomy, unless you can prove otherwise, details God speaking through Moses to the Israelites, not the Ishmaelites.

If we go back one chapter and read Deuteronomy 17, the word "brother is even more clearly defined.

Deuteronomy 17:14,15

14 “When you come to the land that the Lord your God is giving you, and you possess it and dwell in it and then say, ‘I will set a king over me, like all the nations that are around me,’ 15 you may indeed set a king over you whom the Lord your God will choose. One from among your brothers you shall set as king over you. You may not put a foreigner over you, who is not your brother.

The Israelites can only choose "a brother" to rule over them. A foreigner cannot be chosen, because a foreigner is someone "who is not your brother".

For Muhammad to be the one spoken of in Deuteronomy 18, it would have been necessary of him to be an Israelite.

 

[TG123]

Our messiah and the messianic age suppose to bring back exiles, universal peace, etc. None of this happened, yet. As a matter of fact, events since 1st century AD make the Babylonian exile look like rainy vacation in Hawaii. How can any sane Jew look at Jesus' and his followers "accomplishments" and even consider him the promised messiah?

Because He has yet to return. He was crucified, died and was resurrected... as He predicted.


He is coming back.

 

[smaneck]

Delete

 

[ViaCrucis]

He was the return of the Spirit and Power of Elijah, according to Jesus.

The reason I am asking ViaCrucis this question, is - many were expecting the literal return of the flesh and blood of Elijah and they got - John the Baptist, born of a woman.

And ViaCrucis just stated that Jesus of Nazareth is going to literally return in the flesh.

Why would he accept John the Baptist as the return of Elijah, but expect a physical return of Jesus?

Because that's what the Apostles taught, laid down in the New Testament, confessed by the holy catholic and apostolic Church in all her creeds and confessions down through the last two thousand years.

If I believed otherwise I wouldn't be a Christian.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LoAmmi]

Because He has yet to return. He was crucified, died and was resurrected... as He predicted.


He is coming back.

And if he comes back and finishes the job then, and only then, would a Jew who follows Torah be able to call him messiah. I could claim my grandfather is coming back to be messiah and it holds the same chance as of this moment in time.

I don't recognize what he did as being any part of the Messianic mission and I'm sure if your thinking Isaiah 53 you have seen me go over that a good 10 times on this forum.

 

[Dialogues]

Alaikum Salaam.

True enough, I should have looked more closely. It does say "their brethren". Let's read Deuteronomy 18 to see what the term "their brethren" is a reference to.

Wa alaikum salaam.

I am not arguing that brethren cannot possibly mean 'fellow Israelites', and you are quite right to say that references are found in the Bible which show that. As I said, it is understandable that this is what the Jews believed for generations. However, it cannot be denied that the Ishmaelites are also 'brethren' of the Israelites, and of the seed of Abraham a.s. too.

The Jews have also believed that Elijah himself will come down from the heaven/sky, for there is no reference in the prophecy of his return to someone LIKE Elijah, and they insisted on what is in their scripture, not willing to accept the explanation of the fulfillment of the prophecy in a symbolic or metaphorical way, and this became a reason to reject Jesus outright.

And the Ishmaelites are not brethren in a symbolic way alone, for it could be argued that those Ishmaelites who believe in the Biblical prophets and their message are also close brethren in faith to the Israelites. They are not idolators like the foreigners around the Israelites were. However, it is not merely such a meaning of 'brethren' that is being referred to. It is not a stretch to say that the Israelites are brethren of Israelites.

This explanation should not be objectionable for Christians who even go so far as to say that the prophecy in Isaiah 53 about the suffering servant seeing his offspring is a reference to the spiritual offspring of Jesus, not to his physical offspring. Whereas he already had spiritual offspring in the form of his disciples and many other followers even before the attempted crucifixion, and so the prophecy loses significance if understood in that way.

So, why do you give such explanations for other prophecies, but when it comes to Muhammad s.a., you reject the perfectly valid explanation outright? Is this not similar to what the Jews do when it comes to Jesus?

Peace.

 

[TG123]

And if he comes back and finishes the job then, and only then, would a Jew who follows Torah be able to call him messiah. I could claim my grandfather is coming back to be messiah and it holds the same chance as of this moment in time.

I don't recognize what he did as being any part of the Messianic mission and I'm sure if your thinking Isaiah 53 you have seen me go over that a good 10 times on this forum.

Are you saying your grandpa predicted his death and resurrection, and then died and after three days rose from the dead? I have to run to work now, I'll be glad to discuss Isaiah 53 with you later. Take care.

 

[Dialogues]

Because that's what the Apostles taught, laid down in the New Testament, confessed by the holy catholic and apostolic Church in all her creeds and confessions down through the last two thousand years.

If I believed otherwise I wouldn't be a Christian.

-CryptoLutheran

And the Jews have always believed in the physical return of the selfsame Elijah who they believe physically ascended into the heaven/sky, and feel they will cease to be Jews if they believe someone else came in his stead.

If someone were likewise to come in the place of Jesus, not only claiming to fulfill the prophecies about his second coming, but also showing hundreds of fulfilled signs in the form of published prophecies which were fulfilled some time after they were circulated in newspapers etc., proving that he was indeed receiving revelations from the All-Knowing God informing him of these future events, why would any righteous believer in God reject such a person?

Peace.

 

[LoAmmi]

Are you saying your grandpa predicted his death and resurrection, and then died and after three days rose from the dead? I have to run to work now, I'll be glad to discuss Isaiah 53 with you later. Take care.

I see zero evidence for the resurrection. It is something you accept on faith that I do not. It would need proof

 

[LoAmmi]

Dialogues,

If we believed a prophet was coming referenced in Deut 18, wouldn't we still be waiting? I think this is a lot like the claim that Jews believe Ezra is the son of G-d. Maybe some group of Jews did, but it doesn't seem to be the majority. The majority is that the person referenced is Joshua.

 

[light upon light]

Because that's what the Apostles taught, laid down in the New Testament, confessed by the holy catholic and apostolic Church in all her creeds and confessions down through the last two thousand years.

So when LoAmmi tells you he rejects Jesus as the Messiah for essentially the same reasons as you list here, what can you tell him about why Jesus is the Christ?

Why were the fisherman and tax collectors right about Jesus, and all of the learned priests and rabbis wrong?

 

[LoAmmi]

Since Deut 18 was brought up, I'm going to repost what I said on an earlier thread:


Let's look at the full context then, and you might see what I'm saying:

What is the full message being given here? Let's start with verse 13.

13. Be wholehearted with the Lord, your God.
14. For these nations, which you are to possess, hearken to diviners of [auspicious] times and soothsayers, but as for you, the Lord, your God, has not given you [things] like these.
15. A prophet from among you, from your brothers, like me, the Lord, your God will set up for you you shall hearken to him.
16. According to all that you asked of the Lord, your God, in Horeb, on the day of the assembly, saying, "Let me not continue to hear the voice of the Lord, my God, and let me no longer see this great fire, so that I will not die."


So those are the verses that come before verse 17. This is showing that unlike the other nations in Canaan, Israel will not be given diviners and soothsayers but shall be given a prophet in order to continue to know what the Lord wants.

The way I'm told I have to read it is, paraphrasing:

Israel isn't given soothsayers and diviners like other nations. Instead, in over 1000 years, a special prophet will be setup that you should listen to.

Seriously, in my mind I can only end that with "Peace out, losers!" It doesn't fit. It can't mean that Israel would go without the will of the Lord being given to them until Muhammad, Jesus, or whoever else people throw in there. It has to be someone that will come right after Moses that will reveal to the people what HaShem wants to communicate with them.

Verse 15 should knock any notion of it being a group other than Israel, by the way. "from among you" is pretty clear and specific.



Then we get to verse 17:

17. And the Lord said to me, "They have done well in what they have spoken.
18. I will set up a prophet for them from among their brothers like you, and I will put My words into his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him.

We see, when combined with the preceding verses, that the Lord is confirming what Moses said to the people.

Verse 19 states that people need to follow what the prophet says. Beyond that, we are given the criteria to know how to identify a prophet and what happens to a prophet that doesn't do what he or she is supposed to do.

So, I guess if Deut 18 was ONLY verse 18, I could maybe agree with you. But it isn't.

 

[Dialogues]

Hi Loammi,

And what had they spoken? That they didn't want to hear the voice of the Lord. God says, ok, that's fine, a prophet like you will be raised not from them again, but from their brethren. I have heard it said that verse 15 applies to an Israelite prophet and verse 18 to an Ishmaelite one. What are your comments on that?

As for Joshua, please tell me which verse states he is a prophet, let alone being like Moses (a law-bearing prophet) who fulfills the prophecy in [Deut 18:18].

You will find that neither did Joshua claim prophethood for himself, nor did any Israelite prophet state that Joshua was a prophet, let alone saying that he (or any other Israelite prophet) fulfilled [Deut 18:18].

Peace.