Why is LOTR acceptable among Christians...

hedrick

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As far as I can tell, HP is really science fiction. Its "magic" is an alternate technology. In the Bible, witchcraft invokes Satan or other evil entities. For HP, magic uses the user's inherent power, and techniques that they learn. The closest to worship that you see is the way in which the bad guys relate to Voldemort.

Of course the main difference between HP and LOTR is that HP occurs among teens, and that it occurs in a somewhat modified version of today's world. That tends to make it much easier for kids to identify with the people in it.

In LOTR I get the sense that there is a supernatural good and evil. Sauron is the visible form of a force that can be defeated, but will still be there. Similarly, Gandalf is sent by the equivalent of God. I don't get that sense in HP.
 
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Inkachu

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The frenzy over HP is that 1) it involves children, and that automatically sets a lot of people up to freak out, and 2) while the magic in HP is completely fictional, some of the elements are the same as real, worldly witchcraft (spells, using things like animal parts, plants, incantations, candles). So some people see HP as trying to drag innocent children into the world of the occult. *shrug* Do I agree? Not at all.
 
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RDKirk

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The frenzy over HP is that 1) it involves children, and that automatically sets a lot of people up to freak out, and 2) while the magic in HP is completely fictional, some of the elements are the same as real, worldly witchcraft (spells, using things like animal parts, plants, incantations, candles). So some people see HP as trying to drag innocent children into the world of the occult. *shrug* Do I agree? Not at all.

LOTR is clearly "ain't nobody doing this at home." HP needs a warning label.
 
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CounselorForChrist

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Actually you will find most of the people on here are ok with HP for whatever reason. I've made posts like this and they get shut down though. I won't say much but LOTR is obviously fantasy and not reality based. Where as HP is by definition fantasy, but it takes place on earth and is based around the idea of witchcraft. Even the author of HP says so. Not to mention HP is geared towards kids. LOTR makes an obvious line between good and evil. Where as HP blurs the line since Harry sometimes tend to do things things like disobey authority, and other things children should not being taught is moral as a christian kid. Such as respecting adults and authority.

Actually if you search for "harry potter dangerous" you get 58 million results. WHen you do the same for LOTR you only get about 21 million results. Actually if you switch out any word for another negative word the results are nearly the same with HP getting 3x times as many results. Now, this does mean some find LOTR to be bad to of course. But if you are having to choose which is worse for a childs mind, its HP hands down.

Thats all I will say since this topic won't stay open long.
 
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kellhus

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Harry Potter Books Spark Rise In Satanism Among Children | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

LOCK HAVEN, PA—Ashley Daniels is as close as you can get to your typical 9-year-old American girl. A third-grader at Lock Haven Elementary School, she loves rollerblading, her pet hamsters Benny and Oreo, Britney Spears, and, of course, Harry Potter. Having breezed through the most recent Potter opus in just four days, Ashley is among the millions of children who have made Harry Potter And The Goblet Of Fire the fastest-selling book in publishing history.


And, like many of her school friends, Ashley was captivated enough by the strange occult doings at the Hogwarts School Of Witchcraft And Wizardry to pursue the Left-Hand Path, determined to become as adept at the black arts as Harry and his pals.


"I used to believe in what they taught us at Sunday School," said Ashley, conjuring up an ancient spell to summon Cerebus, the three-headed hound of hell. "But the Harry Potter books showed me that magic is real, something I can learn and use right now, and that the Bible is nothing but boring lies."
harry_potter_0_jpg_250x1000_q85.jpg


harry_potter_0_jpg_250x1000_q85.jpg
 
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Hetta

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Hetta, that comment seems to conflict with what you're otherwise saying. You would not let your kids go to the public library alone? If you let your kids watch Harry Potter (or LOTR, for that matter), what books in the public library do you think they should not read?

When they were young, no, I wouldn't let them go alone. As I already stated, according to a quick search of library guidelines, children under 12 cannot be in a public library without supervision.

What books wouldn't I let them read? When they were young, they wouldn't have been allowed to check out books that were too mature in content - whether because they were difficult to understand, or they were highly sexual/violent in nature. For instance, I wouldn't have wanted a 10 year old to read Stephen King for instance (his adult books, I know he's written books for teens). I wouldn't let them check out The Joy of Sex or the Kama Sutra.

It's about age appropriateness. Doesn't every parent make sure that their kids are reading age appropriate books?
 
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CounselorForChrist

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Where does she say that? J. K. Rowling is a Christian.
Well in the past you've see me post quotes about her saying she talked to people that were in wicca and studied it (not to become wiccan of course) to help her make her books. She does indeed say she is a christian. One of our ex-pastors was into child porn. Point is just because someone is a christian doesn't mean they are uncapable of promoting bad things. Even I promoted bad things as a young adult who was mad at God.

BTW someone said a few years back:
"Scholastic Inc. is using its unrivaled position in the educational system to flood classrooms and libraries with witchcraft, repackaged as "children's fantasy literature."

Here another quote I also like:
"But is it just fantasy literature like Snow White and Cinderella? In the older stories, evil never prevails like it does in Harry Potter."

Thats my biggest problem. We are not allowed even having the bible in school because it will teach kids things that others think are wrong. But for some reason this book is allowed. A book which many self proclaimed witches (and former witches) say is surprisingly like withcraft and wicca.

Thats all I will say about HP because I realize any more posts about it and this topic gets closed. I don't care to get in trouble over a topic everyone here knows is very much debated.
 
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kellhus

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A book which many self proclaimed witches (and former witches) say is surprisingly like withcraft and wicca.

Really? I don't claim to know a ton about modern, real-life witchcraft and wicca, but I thought it was much more of a spiritual belief system and their magic involved more than pointing a stick and shouting a made up word to produce flashy effects. I actually thought wiccans said exactly the opposite about Harry Potter.
 
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Hetta

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Well in the past you've see me post quotes about her saying she talked to people that were in wicca and studied it (not to become wiccan of course) to help her make her books. She does indeed say she is a christian. One of our ex-pastors was into child porn. Point is just because someone is a christian doesn't mean they are uncapable of promoting bad things. Even I promoted bad things as a young adult who was mad at God.

BTW someone said a few years back:
"Scholastic Inc. is using its unrivaled position in the educational system to flood classrooms and libraries with witchcraft, repackaged as "children's fantasy literature."

Here another quote I also like:
"But is it just fantasy literature like Snow White and Cinderella? In the older stories, evil never prevails like it does in Harry Potter."

Thats my biggest problem. We are not allowed even having the bible in school because it will teach kids things that others think are wrong. But for some reason this book is allowed. A book which many self proclaimed witches (and former witches) say is surprisingly like withcraft and wicca.

Thats all I will say about HP because I realize any more posts about it and this topic gets closed. I don't care to get in trouble over a topic everyone here knows is very much debated.
Have you read the books? Or are you basing your opinion on other people's comments?

Evil does NOT prevail in HP. That's about the most ridiculous thing I ever read - at least today. Who knows what tomorrow will bring? Anyone who has read the books knows that evil is completely and utterly vanquished, so made that comment is an idiot, and for you to "like" that quote without apparently having read the books just makes me SMH.

And btw, I haven't read the comments or quotes you have made before, or if I have, I've forgotten them.

Oh, and another thought - HP has been banned in some schools. But no, having the Bible in schools is an entirely different topic. I find it hard to believe that people don't understand that.

I don't know what the comments are about the thread being closed. If you mean you've reported it, oh well, but I see no reason to close a discussion thread on this topic.

Why do people take positions on a book/s without having ever read them? That's what I don't understand.
 
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JalecoVision

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I think it's a matter of picking and choosing. For instance, no one completely follows the bible. You would be in jail if you did (stoning your children is so last season).

Some Christians think some stories are okay since they were written by supposedly Christian men. Others, reject all types of those stories with occultic elements to them. I know some Christians who reject all forms of fantasy-related stories, such as LotR and Narnia. So not all of them accept some fantasy-related stories.

I think HP gets the brunt of it because that is what certain leaders in churches like to complain against. It's only through mere exposure to preaching like that which gets all the press. People rarely think for themselves and just go with whatever their pastor, church leader or favorite preacher tells them. And there are bible passages that condemn sorcery, so that is a point too.
 
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Fenny the Fox

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The hero in LOTR is an unlikely Hobbit, a simple person, who lives a simple life.

Who carries around a magic ring that turns him invisible, given to him by his uncle - who lived extra long and stayed young because of it. Is good friends with and travels with a wizard (a sorcerer). All while battling a powerful demigod, that is after him for the ring, to save the entire world.

Yeah...so much better than HP where the characters are wizards/witches, but are battling an evil mass-murderer to protect the world.
 
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thatforumguy77

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The Christian LOTR thread became an HP/LOTR bashing thread. That, my friends, is nothing short of the magic of the internets.

The Bible teaches us to not let the enemy gain a foothold. And yes, the enemy is very cunning. He can create roots in our minds that we find hard to release because frankly, it is neither good nor bad. What we MUST ask is not whether it is good or bad. The outward appearance of morality is less important here than the inner warfare that it can create.

In God's purpose driven plan, does HP strengthen the Christian or weaken him? In God's great plan of salvation, does LOTR strengthen the believer or weaken him?

To understand this, first, we must remember the authors. Rowling is a mother, a parent, while Tolkien is a romantic, and rebel of realism, and veteran of a war. While Rowling's work show a degree of realism, from teenaged problems and so forth, Tolkien denies realism, and focuses on romantic, fantastic, and epic concepts that have long since faded from realist works. Rowling's work is a treatise on the teenage reality where few understand them, while Tolkien's purpose was to inject the beauty of fantastic realism on a world torn with war.

The result is clear: Tolkien is more biblical.

In HP, many fall to the weakness of their own humanity, and they have nothing to cling to but their own strength (and the strength of friendship and Love!) Many times we doubt if the good guys will even win or if they will fall to the temptations of darkness. Will they commit murder? Will they kill someone in deceit just to maintain a charade? This opposes many biblical principles in truth, love, and divisiveness. Is this the reality we believe in?

What is more biblical is the battles of LOTR where everything is black and white. The good are almost always saved by providence, in the form of Gandalf or other good creatures, for in Tolkien's world, Good is destined to prevail. People die, yes, but they are provided heroism that only a veteran of the war can write about. We as Christians believe in a God who is a provider, who rescues us when we cannot rescue ourselves. Who, in all appearances, seem to have written our stories with an epic scope in mind, and with a grand mission to burn the sin that so threatens our homes. Within the pages of LOTR is a Christian journey, a journey of faith, a journey of discovery, a journey of maturity, and a journey of release. They did not accomplish this from their own "magic" power, but through the simple belief and necessity that they MUST.

Look to the Fruits of the Spirit. Love, Joy, Peace, Forebearance, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, and Self-Control. All these are present in LOTR.

Now look at the Sins of the Flesh. Sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties. Sounds familiar? So yeah. Point made.

This is because the writing tradition of realism is rooted in physicality - the world as we see it. But the writing tradition of the romantic is rooted in the ideal, the spiritual, the world we want to see. As for me and my Christian tradition, I want to see that which I do not see because that is the basis of my Faith. I do not want to see that which i see now because that is the basis of my Doubt. I cling to God who is perfect, not to man which is imperfect - for in God we see things praiseworthy, and in that I will dwell.
 
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