The notion that protestants agree on all things that matter for salvation

[Second Phoenix]

You'll sometimes read about protestants, when pressed about how to tell what is the right thing to believe, or how to interpret the bible, fall back on an unscriptural, unhistorical, unsupportable, illogical notion:

While we may disagree on certain things, those which are truly important and necessary to salvation are clear.

Really?
You don't agree on so these aren't important:

Communion:
Symbol that can be celebrated every so often - memorial to be celebrated every week - quasi-sacrament of unknown spiritual important - body and body of Christ with or without bread and wine mixed in.

Baptism:
True baptism happens when God send the holy spirit upon you and cleanses you and water baptism is just a profession of faith which may be very important or completely unnecessary - baptism is somewhat important but God cares more about what is in your heart - you should get baptized but its no an important part of your journey to God - baptism is a sacrament or isn't and you need it to be initiated into the fiath

Church:
Having a faith community is totally unimportant, all I need is my bible - church is good and all not really important - church is kinda important - church is very helpful if not essential for developing as a community, such as those early churches

Trinity
Trinity doesn't matter - Father, Son, and HS are all the same person just different hats - they are different persons of one substance - (all kinds of other bizarre beliefs)

Jesus
Jesus is a demigod - Jesus just appeared as human - Jesus was God's puppet - Jesus was the Son of God in true flesh

Free will
There is no free will personal choices are really God's - There is free will and personal choices are your own

Salvation
Salvation is permanent - Salvation is kinda permanent - Salvation must be continually worked on to be saved forever in the end

Marriage
If you remarry anyone (also except for such and such reason), you are committing adultery - you can remarry all you want for anyone reason


I suppose I could go on and on... but in the end, there is nothing that is agreed upon.

 

[football5680]

This is why God gave us the Church and it is the final authority when it comes to issues that deal with salvation. If you take away the church then you get 30,000 different denominations who all claim to possess the true "Biblical" Christian faith and all claim to be led by the Holy Spirit. Instead of doing what Jesus said and taking the issue to the church, people simply start up their own church.

If people within the church disagree about a certain issue then they can come together and discuss it just like the apostles did. At that point the church must make the final ruling and regardless of which way it goes, people must be humble enough to accept it and understand that the Church is protected from falsehood by God as Jesus said.

And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (Matthew 16:18)

 

[MJohn7]

This is a debate that will never get settled, Opening a bible and reading it is as close to the Church that the apostles started as you can get, im not going to get into debating Popes and all the things RC has been wrong about. Im just going to stick with my bible, God is able.

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”[b]

12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.


Php 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! 5 Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

 

[MrLuther]

and understand that the Church is protected from falsehood by God as Jesus said.

(bolding mine)
Correction: As the roman church itself claims that Jesus said about the roman church.
It's a line of reasoning that no thinking adult would accept under any other circumstances. If I said to you:

"I'm right because I say so, and I say so because God says so, and God says so because I say God says so, and I say that God says so because God says so, and God says so because I say that God says so...." (etc ad infinitum), you would ask whether I had taken leave of my senses. And you would be right to ask that.

 

[Second Phoenix]

This is a debate that will never get settled, Opening a bible and reading it is as close to the Church that the apostles started as you can get

They didn't have the NT in the early Church, so in fact what you are suggesting is the opposite. Christianity has never been about opening a bible and reading it (on your own). Most people were illiterate.

 

[MJohn7]

They didn't have the NT in the early Church, so in fact what you are suggesting is the opposite. Christianity has never been about opening a bible and reading it (on your own). Most people were illiterate.

Yes they did have the NT. The Church was founded by those letters (and the reading of the Gospel record i assume) The apostles taught in person and letter, someone would read the letter to the church, but today we can read ourselves just the same as hearing it. Paul sometimes had the same letters sent to the different Churches. RC is not flawless and not the keeper of all truth, history proves that. I sure cant trust them to teach me. Im confident the Holy Spirit and scripture are good teachers. All we must do is pray, study and apply.

1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

God’s Children and Sin

28 And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.
29 If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him

 

[squint]

I suppose I could go on and on... but in the end, there is nothing that is agreed upon.

Believing only what some others dictate to you hasn't proved out too well either.

 

[shturt678s]

You'll sometimes read about protestants, when pressed about how to tell what is the right thing to believe, or how to interpret the bible, fall back on an unscriptural, unhistorical, unsupportable, illogical notion:

While we may disagree on certain things, those which are truly important and necessary to salvation are clear.

Really?
You don't agree on so these aren't important:

Communion:
Symbol that can be celebrated every so often - memorial to be celebrated every week - quasi-sacrament of unknown spiritual important - body and body of Christ with or without bread and wine mixed in.

Baptism:
True baptism happens when God send the holy spirit upon you and cleanses you and water baptism is just a profession of faith which may be very important or completely unnecessary - baptism is somewhat important but God cares more about what is in your heart - you should get baptized but its no an important part of your journey to God - baptism is a sacrament or isn't and you need it to be initiated into the fiath

Church:
Having a faith community is totally unimportant, all I need is my bible - church is good and all not really important - church is kinda important - church is very helpful if not essential for developing as a community, such as those early churches

Trinity
Trinity doesn't matter - Father, Son, and HS are all the same person just different hats - they are different persons of one substance - (all kinds of other bizarre beliefs)

Jesus
Jesus is a demigod - Jesus just appeared as human - Jesus was God's puppet - Jesus was the Son of God in true flesh

Free will
There is no free will personal choices are really God's - There is free will and personal choices are your own

Salvation
Salvation is permanent - Salvation is kinda permanent - Salvation must be continually worked on to be saved forever in the end

Marriage
If you remarry anyone (also except for such and such reason), you are committing adultery - you can remarry all you want for anyone reason


I suppose I could go on and on... but in the end, there is nothing that is agreed upon.

I thought this was well put together by someone that cares (SP) where they will be spending their forever, however posted in a time where most Christians, ie, really mean most, could care less.

I think we can agree on the latter?

Agreeing Jack

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

They didn't have the NT in the early Church, so in fact what you are suggesting is the opposite.
Christianity has never been about opening a bible and reading it (on your own). Most people were illiterate.

Perhaps back then, but not so much now as far as Catholicism and Protestism are concerned...IMHO

http://www.christianforums.com/t7058517-8/
Catholics and the bible

Originally Posted by defenderinfaith

I've always been Catholic bu I was asked recently about being Catholic. But it wasn't the normal question of Why are you Catholic i was actually asked if Catholics ever read the bible. He was Protestant, and wanted to know why we didn't believe in God the way they do.


I tried to explain but the way he asked took me a while to get. I mean it still doesnt quite make sense exactly what he meant by it.



Is there something I'm missing?
​

A lot of Protestants are told and believe that the Church keeps scripture from Catholics like we cannot by a Bible at walmart or something.

The Jews who wrote and safe guarded the OT and the RCC that canonized the NT 4000 - 1500 years prior to the reformation have never viewed scripture in the fundamental literal fashion. Yet fundamentalists, relatively modern sages, claim the Jewish authors and Christian canonozers of scripture are in error.

Since the RCC canonized the NT, in fact the NT is by its very nature Catholic in context. The protestants should be grateful to the Jewish and Catholic community for the OT and NT, even for the books they decided to take out. Ask your friend why he thinks the Holy Spirit chose the Catholic Church as the authority of which inspired writing went into the NT.

A lot of protestants think that Catholics don't read the Bible, when in fact most of us do. It's a rumour that's hard to kill, stemming from the Middle Ages, when the clergy would often withold scripture from the lower classes, alledgedly because they couldn't read, but in all likelihood to prevent them from starting to think for themselves.

You have to remember that it was the protestant movement that first translated the Bible to languages that the lower classes spoke and could understand; not the Catholic church, which was using exclusively Latin and Greek (and possibly Hebrew) back then. I think a lot of protestants still think every mass is a tridentine mass.

.

 

[Rhamiel]

some are cessationists, some believe that speaking in tongues is a sign of salvation

some believe in Once Saved Always Saved, some do not

Protestantism does NOT agree on the essentials, they do not even agree on the nature of how Christ saves us
since they can not agree on how Jesus acts, do you think it is fair to say that each denomination teaches a different Jesus?

 

[MJohn7]

This forum will cause ones faith to waiver. All this debate. The bible says the kingdom is about peace, righteousness and joy in the spirit. Righteousness? whats that? we are not under the law! And besides, you need my church to teach you, you gotta be baptized this way, you gotta eat the bread and wine or you have no life in you. Well, in the end all i have is faith and this world seems more and more wearisome every day. I cling to hope in Christ. Good night.

 

[shturt678s]

This forum will cause ones faith to waiver. All this debate. The bible says the kingdom is about peace, righteousness and joy in the spirit. Righteousness? whats that? we are not under the law! And besides, you need my church to teach you, you gotta be baptized this way, you gotta eat the bread and wine or you have no life in you. Well, in the end all i have is faith and this world seems more and more wearisome every day. I cling to hope in Christ. Good night.

First and foremost we have to be "born again" God's way then the "Anointing" (IJn.2) "Holy Spirit" resides within, ie, then this thread will cause one's faith to be sanctioned, ie, I think John was thinking more about us 'eating' the Word hourly wayyy beyond Church the whole 1.5 hours on Sunday. btw was recently corrected, ie, individual said he also attends Bible study and prayer on Wed. eve for an hour - he did say he brought his children with him thus a big plus on that one.

Sorry, talking too much again,

Old loquacious Jack for the children and infants

 

[concretecamper]

(bolding mine)
As the roman church itself claims that Jesus said about the roman church.
It's a line of reasoning that no thinking adult would accept under any other circumstances.

Actually, adults with much greater credentials than you or I have been reasoning this for centuries.

 

[Albion]

You'll sometimes read about protestants, when pressed about how to tell what is the right thing to believe, or how to interpret the bible, fall back on an unscriptural, unhistorical, unsupportable, illogical notion:

I suppose I could go on and on... but in the end, there is nothing that is agreed upon.

Why would anyone suppose that all Protestants ought to agree on every doctrine, when all Catholics don't agree on theirs, or all the members of liturgical churches, or all churches whose names start with the letter "R," or other groupings of types of churches for that matter? THEY ARE DIFFERENT CHURCHES!

 

[MJohn7]

First and foremost we have to be "born again" God's way then the "Anointing" (IJn.2) "Holy Spirit" resides within, ie, then this thread will cause one's faith to be sanctioned, ie, I think John was thinking more about us 'eating' the Word hourly wayyy beyond Church the whole 1.5 hours on Sunday. btw was recently corrected, ie, individual said he also attends Bible study and prayer on Wed. eve for an hour - he did say he brought his children with him thus a big plus on that one.

Sorry, talking too much again,

Old loquacious Jack for the children and infants

If we are born again i would think GT would bother us.

 

[concretecamper]

In Heaven, all are one faith. There are no divisions.

One has to ask the question to those who think division is OK....Why?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

John 3:16

Is that essential enough?

 

[Albion]

In Heaven, all are one faith. There are no divisions.

Only because, in heaven, we will know the answers to the questions that divide us all in this life.

One has to ask the question to those who think division is OK....Why?

Does one? Who thinks that division is preferable to agreement?

 

[concretecamper]

Does one? Who thinks that division is preferable to agreement?

Being OK with division vs. thinking division preferable to agreement is two different things.

 

[concretecamper]

Only because, in heaven, we will know the answers to the questions that divide us all in this life.

Or we may need to accept the truth first.